Ubuntu

  On 11/16/2013 at 1:39 AM, HokusPoker said:

Don't know why my post was submitted in the midst of writing it and I don't know why I cannot edit it anymore

Your computer is revolting. The end is nigh.

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:37 AM, eugene said:

well it's still a software matter at the core, not really os. the programs are written that way that they're integrated with with os update system, similar to internet explorer, office and other microsoft programs that are updated through windows update. i don't know whose fault is it that such things are not incorporated by default in windows, but it never seemed like an issue to me, especially with more contemporary stuff that can be configured to auto update. this is definitely not a reason to switch to a poorly compatible os anyway.

That's true, it's not the kernel's task to do that, but the reality remains the same: Windows -> no such system. Linux -> allways such a system. It doesn't really matter why that is the case. And this is one of the things you may think are alright if you don't know how it can be, but having your system (this includes all libraries that other applications depend on, too) up to date, all security fixes and new features on the same day or maybe a day after they came out (no stupid patch days or service packs you have to wait for for weeks), etc. This matters to me and everybody else who doesn't want his system invaded.

Do you have a few examples of "poorly compatible" OS? Because especially if you're going to make the distinction of OS <-> applications, then there is no such thing as an incompatible OS. If Libre Office cannot read files written my Microsoft office, this is a Windows problem as well (Libre Office exists there, too) and if Microsoft Office doesn't use standard file formats (which all other suites can read), then it's actually Microsoft Office being incompatible.

MadameChaos,

what is your current

CPU?

RAM?

primary Hard Drive type?

  On 11/16/2013 at 1:19 PM, HokusPoker said:

 

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:37 AM, eugene said:

well it's still a software matter at the core, not really os. the programs are written that way that they're integrated with with os update system, similar to internet explorer, office and other microsoft programs that are updated through windows update. i don't know whose fault is it that such things are not incorporated by default in windows, but it never seemed like an issue to me, especially with more contemporary stuff that can be configured to auto update. this is definitely not a reason to switch to a poorly compatible os anyway.

That's true, it's not the kernel's task to do that, but the reality remains the same: Windows -> no such system. Linux -> allways such a system. It doesn't really matter why that is the case. And this is one of the things you may think are alright if you don't know how it can be, but having your system (this includes all libraries that other applications depend on, too) up to date, all security fixes and new features on the same day or maybe a day after they came out (no stupid patch days or service packs you have to wait for for weeks), etc. This matters to me and everybody else who doesn't want his system invaded.

Do you have a few examples of "poorly compatible" OS? Because especially if you're going to make the distinction of OS <-> applications, then there is no such thing as an incompatible OS. If Libre Office cannot read files written my Microsoft office, this is a Windows problem as well (Libre Office exists there, too) and if Microsoft Office doesn't use standard file formats (which all other suites can read), then it's actually Microsoft Office being incompatible.

 

i think you're stuck in some windows vista kind of thinking, 7 has been very reliable. systems are not being invaded if you're not downloading trojans.

re compatibilty - it's easy. no games, no official drivers for my soundcard,

  On 11/16/2013 at 1:39 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 11/16/2013 at 1:19 PM, HokusPoker said:

 

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:37 AM, eugene said:

well it's still a software matter at the core, not really os. the programs are written that way that they're integrated with with os update system, similar to internet explorer, office and other microsoft programs that are updated through windows update. i don't know whose fault is it that such things are not incorporated by default in windows, but it never seemed like an issue to me, especially with more contemporary stuff that can be configured to auto update. this is definitely not a reason to switch to a poorly compatible os anyway.

That's true, it's not the kernel's task to do that, but the reality remains the same: Windows -> no such system. Linux -> allways such a system. It doesn't really matter why that is the case. And this is one of the things you may think are alright if you don't know how it can be, but having your system (this includes all libraries that other applications depend on, too) up to date, all security fixes and new features on the same day or maybe a day after they came out (no stupid patch days or service packs you have to wait for for weeks), etc. This matters to me and everybody else who doesn't want his system invaded.

Do you have a few examples of "poorly compatible" OS? Because especially if you're going to make the distinction of OS <-> applications, then there is no such thing as an incompatible OS. If Libre Office cannot read files written my Microsoft office, this is a Windows problem as well (Libre Office exists there, too) and if Microsoft Office doesn't use standard file formats (which all other suites can read), then it's actually Microsoft Office being incompatible.

 

i think you're stuck in some windows vista kind of thinking, 7 has been very reliable. systems are not being invaded if you're not downloading trojans.

 

re compatibilty - it's easy. no games, no official drivers for my soundcard,

 

I'm not talking about reliability, I'm talking about system security (and new features). Systems are always invaded if they're not up to date.

Games, well, there are quite some games being available and being made available and using Wine, I've had excellent results. But it's true, usually games are and especially used to be Windows only. But maybe soon, with the Steambox arriving, they will be Linux only :)

Do the 'inofficial' drivers not work for your soundcard (I personally have never had any problems with that, but maybe your soundcard is very exotic or new) or why do you care about drivers being official or not?

"Systems are always invaded if they're not up to date." -

no, my soundcard is the most popular higher-range soundcard on the market - asus xonar stx. haven't tried the unofficial drivers, i don't want to mess with them because they control amplification for headphones and relays. im afraid it's easy to damage the soundcard/headphones/hearing with shady drivers for this particular soundcard.

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:12 PM, eugene said:

"Systems are always invaded if they're not up to date." -

What?

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:12 PM, eugene said:

no, my soundcard is the most popular higher-range soundcard on the market - asus xonar stx. haven't tried the unofficial drivers, i don't want to mess with them because they control amplification for headphones and relays. im afraid it's easy to damage the soundcard/headphones/hearing with shady drivers for this particular soundcard.

There are no official drivers and I bet, any other drivers kill my ears. Alright.

Let's leave it at that, but tell me why a not up-to-date system cannot be invaded. What exactly would an update be there for?

there's just no guarantees, those drivers control pretty extreme changes in gain on headphones output:

re: updates, there are all kinds of updates.

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:26 PM, eugene said:

there's just no guarantees, those drivers control pretty extreme changes in gain on headphones output:

Capture.JPG

 

re: updates, there are all kinds of updates.

That may be true but the same thing can happen with the official drivers. There are always human beings working on code. Maybe someone who gets a deadline by his supervisor is more likely to make a mistake than somebody who works on that in his free time and puts his name underneath it (and in free software world, there are usually more than one pair of eyes looking at the code). It's also possible that the one working at the company has a strict rule book which prevents this kind of mistake, but this kind of feature is dangerous per se, mistakes could also happen in the official drivers. But I understand your reserve.

Yes, there are all kinds of updates. Some of which are security updates. A hundred percent of which are crucial for a secure system. If a system is up to date, there are all known security patches applied. If it is not, it is possible there are new security patches available which are not installed on the system. Thus it is to be considered insecure.

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:21 AM, HokusPoker said:

I've never seen or heard of anything similar to that for Windows, but I may be wrong. It's definitely not an integral part of your Windows installation, I know that because I have to go to a browser's website to download it.

Yup you are wrong. Windows 8 has the Windows App store.

  On 11/16/2013 at 3:30 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 11/16/2013 at 2:21 AM, HokusPoker said:

I've never seen or heard of anything similar to that for Windows, but I may be wrong. It's definitely not an integral part of your Windows installation, I know that because I have to go to a browser's website to download it.

 

Yup you are wrong. Windows 8 has the Windows App store.

 

Ok, finally. Does it do automatic updates for all installed applications and libraries?

Doing a quick search, I was not able to find Libre Office or even Firefox in that Windows store. If that's true, then that's not what I meant.

Installing small apps is not the same as managing your entire software catalog, but maybe the online search is not working properly or I'm searching in the wrong place (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows/search#q=firefox&s=Store).

  On 11/16/2013 at 6:10 PM, HokusPoker said:

Doing a quick search, I was not able to find Libre Office or even Firefox in that Windows store. If that's true, then that's not what I meant.

Installing small apps is not the same as managing your entire software catalog, but maybe the online search is not working properly or I'm searching in the wrong place (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows/search#q=firefox&s=Store).

yes you're searching the wrong place. you can only search the Windows App store from Windows 8 or Windows 8.1

Neither of those applications are in the store, but that is not a requirement for what you've been describing. you described a centralised repository where all applications can be kept updated. That is that.

  On 11/16/2013 at 6:50 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 11/16/2013 at 6:10 PM, HokusPoker said:

Doing a quick search, I was not able to find Libre Office or even Firefox in that Windows store. If that's true, then that's not what I meant.

Installing small apps is not the same as managing your entire software catalog, but maybe the online search is not working properly or I'm searching in the wrong place (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows/search#q=firefox&s=Store).

yes you're searching the wrong place. you can only search the Windows App store from Windows 8 or Windows 8.1

 

Neither of those applications are in the store, but that is not a requirement for what you've been describing. you described a centralised repository where all applications can be kept updated. That is that.

 

Thank you for pointing out my requirements. Let me do the same for you:

  On 11/16/2013 at 5:54 PM, HokusPoker said:

Does it do automatic updates for all installed applications and libraries?

 

ALL applications and libraries. Sure, one can use your logic and declare the flashpayer-installer to be its own App Store (with one application available, namely Flash Player). But for everybody else, that's just a poor joke of an application management system. That is that.

Aye I'd love to have a Windows equivalent of: sudo apt-get update | sudo apt-get upgrade | sudo apt-get autoremove

I admit I have a bit of an update obsession.

i'm actually about to give ubuntu (of the lubuntu variety) a go on my old powerbook.

I shouldn't have replied at that time of the day, so sorry for my slightly aggressive tone.

If your thinking of trying Ubuntu go for one of the LTS (long term support) versions. 10.04 which uses the Gnome display is best if your graphics card doesn't have onboard memory. 12.04 uses a more memory intensive display called Unity, which is a bit rubbish and prone to crashing/freezing in my experience.

goddamn. can anyone help me out? i need to compile an NV driver for my powerbook - xserver-xorg-video-nv. last time i tried this, it was still in the natty repo, but that repo no longer exists, and i can't for the life of me figure out how to get it again. i have a .deb of the compiled driver from a website, but when i dpkg -i it, it throws up an error that says:

xserver-xorg-video-nv depends on xorg-video-abi-6.0; however: 
package xorg-video-abi-6.0 is not installed
xserver-xorg-core (2:1.11.4-0ubuntu10.14) breaks xserver-xorg-video-6 and is installed.
xserver-xorg-video-nv (1:2.1.17-3) provides xserver-xorg-video-6.

i've tried everything i can think of but my linux is pretty damn rusty. any halp would be greatfully appreeshed.

  On 11/19/2013 at 5:34 AM, disparaissant said:

goddamn. can anyone help me out? i need to compile an NV driver for my powerbook - xserver-xorg-video-nv. last time i tried this, it was still in the natty repo, but that repo no longer exists, and i can't for the life of me figure out how to get it again. i have a .deb of the compiled driver from a website, but when i dpkg -i it, it throws up an error

The drivers included with most distributions are usually out of date. Have you tried getting them direct from Nvidia? Installation is pretty straightforward.

I use Mint for the most part nowadays. It's a more stable Ubuntu without uploading my personal crap. It also has Mate as a desktop, which is basically Gnome 2. Which basically means I can actually get work done without fighting some trendy eye candy designed for touchscreens.

You may have difficulty with specialty hardware, but support has come a long way over the last two years. If you're already running Windows, the installer for Ubuntu/Mint will recognize it, partition some free space, then set up a dual boot.

Having cut my teeth on Slackware in the 1990's, I am still stunned by how easy installing Linux is now.

Nvidia no longer supports ANYTHING powerpc related, especially 10 year old mobile chips. Hence the having-to-compile-a-now-obsolete-driver-just-for-2d-support thing i got goin on here. :\

  On 11/16/2013 at 1:25 PM, skibby said:

MadameChaos,

 

what is your current

 

CPU?

RAM?

primary Hard Drive type?

erm, i'll have a look. i can't remember.

just did a full install of ubuntu 14 on my hp 2000. i fucking love it! its abeautiful OS. blows windows away...ten years ago linux was so difficult. everything was a pain. now it works so seamless. (for me anyway). i can feel the love in this OS

  On 5/16/2014 at 5:12 AM, marf said:

just did a full install of ubuntu 14 on my hp 2000. i fucking love it! its abeautiful OS. blows windows away...ten years ago linux was so difficult. everything was a pain. now it works so seamless. (for me anyway). i can feel the love in this OS

now try making electronic music on it.

now try playing popular games (not even the latest games, either).

don't get me wrong, Linux can be great...but it depends on what you want from a computer. Unfortunately, due to the shortcomings of the two above, it will be a long time before I run Linux as my main OS (and please don't mention Steam Machines / SteamOS unless you actually know both the gaming landscape, and the open source landscape).

  On 5/16/2014 at 5:12 AM, marf said:

just did a full install of ubuntu 14 on my hp 2000. i fucking love it! its abeautiful OS. blows windows away...ten years ago linux was so difficult. everything was a pain. now it works so seamless. (for me anyway). i can feel the love in this OS

yeah i'm getting on fine with it on my laptop, would very doubtfully switch back to windows. only issue is can't seem to sort itunes. fuck itunes.