Woody Allen/Dylan Farrow thing

timothy admits defeat.

  On 2/7/2014 at 6:07 PM, delet... said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 6:01 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 1:24 PM, Timothy Forward said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 12:24 PM, chenGOD said:

Anyways, I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this celebrity polar vortex, but to see the court of public opinion come out so strongly here simply because "the guy seems creepy" (jesus, how many people on here have been accused of being weird by their peer group?) is really somewhat off-putting.

 

As for his private life, if he'd been the age he is now and got into a relationship with a mid-twenties lingerie model that would be amusing. The fact is he went for an extremely young girl who has close ties to his own family and people in his immediate circle. Might be legal but that doesn't make it any less creepy.

 

 

Yeah, if only he'd bought a gold-digging lingerie model instead of falling in love with someone, things would be A-OK.

 

 

 

It saddened me that people on my facebook went for the whole pedo hysteria thing as well. It shows you how powerful a force that issue is i guess, illustrates why it's used as a go to by the media for distracting the population.

 

I also see the lingerie model thing as more sickly than the true love thing.

 

Paedogeddon!

  On 2/7/2014 at 8:24 PM, apriorion said:

Paedogeddon!

lol. She didn't really graduate from Columbia, that was just Woody Allen disguised as a school

just curious, how many people in this thread like fucking/dating extremely young women who are 30+ years their junior?
maybe it makes me old fashioned to find doing that sleazy as fucking hell, sad, pathetic and mid-life crisis freak-outty but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

I guess I can admit to be jumping on board the pedo-witchhunt bandwagon... I guess I wasn't aware of all the details between Allen and Farrow, and evidence that Dylan may have been coerced into her confession. Looking more into the details on both sides I'm now unsure, but honestly I'm starting to not care.

  On 2/7/2014 at 8:52 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

just curious, how many people in this thread like fucking/dating extremely young women who are 30+ years their junior?

maybe it makes me old fashioned to find doing that sleazy as fucking hell, sad, pathetic and mid-life crisis freak-outty but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

I banged a 19 year old 2 summers ago when I was 37. She was all about it, she initiated the contact and everything. I was in a bad spot cause of going through some intense personal shit. Was it creepy? I don't really think so - I certainly don't have any power or money to flex. She was more than capable of making her own decisions, she's a student at the same school I'm at, which is widely regarded as one of the top 3 schools in Canada (the school usually hangs out about 30 on global rankings, for those that put any weight in that sort of metric). That was a one-off, then a few months later started seeing my current gf (hopefully soon to be fiancee).

Take that for what you will.

*Claims he has no power or money to flex, then proceeds to flaunt school's widely regarded status as one of the top 3 schools in Canada and 30th in global rankings*

Ah, the professor and the eager student. Long live the patriarchy! One day, when you are in your fifties, you'll see that creature again, she'll brush past you in the hall. She will have just gotten tenure as a professor of Post-Feminist Studies, and on one rare, humid Canadian night, while she is confiding in you re: how she finds herself on the bottom of a 7% gap between your respective salaries, and you pat her thigh in aristocratic sympathy, she will suddenly find herself on top of an entirely different situation. I'll send you some cigars while you imagine this day as it verily comes.

I'm not a professor, I was an undergrad student when it happened. With the school ranking, i was merely trying to show that she was smart to get in. I only got in by virtue of being a "mature" student.

I'm broke as fuck living paycheque to paycheque. But at least I'll finish grad school with no debt :)

  On 2/7/2014 at 9:59 PM, chenGOD said:

which is widely regarded as one of the top 3 schools in Canada (the school usually hangs out about 30 on global rankings, for those that put any weight in that sort of metric)

lol what does this have to do with anything?

stacey nelkin (woody's ex from a while back) has some interesting things to say regarding mia farrow:

  Quote

 

 

Nelkin also said that someone from Mia Farrow's camp had tried to convince Nelkin to testify against Allen during the custody battle. This person wanted her to "admit that I was 15 when we dated, and I said no, because I was not 15," Nelkin said. "I was 17, 18 and 19, and to me there's a big distinction between that, and I think they were looking for the fact that, you know, 15 is jail bait. Seventeen is a very different story. And I would not go along with that."

funny bit of trivia from farrow's wikipedia page:

  Quote

 

 

In 1970, Farrow married the conductor/composer André Previn after having become pregnant by him while he was married to songwriter Dory Previn.^[31] His former wife wrote a scathing song, entitled "Beware of Young Girls", about the loss of her husband to Farrow.

  On 2/7/2014 at 9:59 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 8:52 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

just curious, how many people in this thread like fucking/dating extremely young women who are 30+ years their junior?

maybe it makes me old fashioned to find doing that sleazy as fucking hell, sad, pathetic and mid-life crisis freak-outty but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

 

I banged a 19 year old 2 summers ago when I was 37. She was all about it, she initiated the contact and everything. I was in a bad spot cause of going through some intense personal shit. Was it creepy? I don't really think so - I certainly don't have any power or money to flex. She was more than capable of making her own decisions, she's a student at the same school I'm at, which is widely regarded as one of the top 3 schools in Canada (the school usually hangs out about 30 on global rankings, for those that put any weight in that sort of metric). That was a one-off, then a few months later started seeing my current gf (hopefully soon to be fiancee).

 

Take that for what you will.

 

you missed the cutoff by 2 years ;). No but seriously i guess my constitution wouldn't allow me to do that, but part of me feels like it would be hot, i just wouldn't feel good about it.

A solid counter-argument: http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/woody-allens-good-name/

  Quote

This is a basic principle: until it is proven otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt, it’s important to extend the presumption of innocence to Dylan Farrow, and presume that she is not guilty of the crime of lying about what Woody Allen did to her.

 

If you are saying things like “We can’t really know what happened” and extra-specially pleading on behalf of the extra-special Woody Allen, then you are saying that his innocence is more presumptive than hers. You are saying that he is on trial, not her: he deserves judicial safeguards in the court of public opinion, but she does not.

that's a decent article on the subject, i find it extremely odd how polarized these types of situations become. Like isn't the most reasonable/practical way to look at it that a person who has claimed sexual assault should probably not be completely brushed off? I mean it's a pretty serious thing, and I find it odd that just because the accusations have been leveled towards a loved celebrity people rush to his defense. It's almost like they themselves are holding off some kind of psychological dam breaking that might make them be unable to appreciate his work anymore if they decide to start believing the accusations or even remotely taking them seriously. It's kinda sad. Sometimes horrible and disgusting people make great art, this is nothing new.

plenty of people in this thread (lumpenprol, chengod) have given reasoned defenses and counter arguments that didn't lean on some kind of love of woody allen as a celebrity. i personally think the charge should be considered seriously, but privately, not in the court of public opinion. i also think there's a lot of context to this involving mia farrow and that allen being "creepy" (which i kind of think he is) is not a reason to write him off as a predator.

personally i couldn't care less about his films, i'm just annoyed at the kneejerk internet outrage machine and how biased journalism on the subject has been. i'm also a little scared that people are so quick to rush to boycott his work and potentially destroy his career and reputation because of the claims made against him in the early 90s. this is more about the decision to bring the case back up now, about timing and doing it in the public eye, but others in this thread have emphasized this point. not sure what's hard to understand about that.

i guess i just have a lot of sympathy for victims of sexual assault, especially those who were unable to find the courage for so many years to speak up about or to file charges towards their abuser for said assault. That's why i find it a little bit upsetting when people are so quick to write someone off for things like how long they waited to report it, if they didn't file actual criminal charges or not. I do believe that it's possible when this happens a victim could be lying or making a story up, but i guess in this case it just seems really insensitive to me. Maybe I haven't read enough about it or her.

this article gets at what i'm talking about with this case being in the public eye. it also addresses the one encey linked, which has some good points.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/02/woody_allen_v_dylan_farrow_the_court_of_public_opinion_is_now_in_session.html

I have been boycotting woody allen my whole life because I think he is shitty.

  On 2/7/2014 at 10:42 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 9:59 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 8:52 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

just curious, how many people in this thread like fucking/dating extremely young women who are 30+ years their junior?

maybe it makes me old fashioned to find doing that sleazy as fucking hell, sad, pathetic and mid-life crisis freak-outty but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

 

I banged a 19 year old 2 summers ago when I was 37. She was all about it, she initiated the contact and everything. I was in a bad spot cause of going through some intense personal shit. Was it creepy? I don't really think so - I certainly don't have any power or money to flex. She was more than capable of making her own decisions, she's a student at the same school I'm at, which is widely regarded as one of the top 3 schools in Canada (the school usually hangs out about 30 on global rankings, for those that put any weight in that sort of metric). That was a one-off, then a few months later started seeing my current gf (hopefully soon to be fiancee).

 

Take that for what you will.

 

you missed the cutoff by 2 years ;). No but seriously i guess my constitution wouldn't allow me to do that, but part of me feels like it would be hot, i just wouldn't feel good about it.

 

TBH I didn't feel great about it either - and her aggressiveness in her approach to sex (which I attribute -probably wrongly- to the rise of extreme porn) was not particularly sexy. It's much more satisfying to be in a relationship for me.

  On 2/7/2014 at 10:51 PM, encey said:

 

A solid counter-argument: http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/woody-allens-good-name/

 

 

  Quote

This is a basic principle: until it is proven otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt, it’s important to extend the presumption of innocence to Dylan Farrow, and presume that she is not guilty of the crime of lying about what Woody Allen did to her.

 

If you are saying things like “We can’t really know what happened” and extra-specially pleading on behalf of the extra-special Woody Allen, then you are saying that his innocence is more presumptive than hers. You are saying that he is on trial, not her: he deserves judicial safeguards in the court of public opinion, but she does not.

 

While that is entirely a fair point, the actual fact is that in real, legal terms, Woody was the one on trial. She will never be charged criminally, will never have to undergo a criminal investigation for making the accusation.

Actually scratch that, I thought the article was fair - until I read it, and found out the author went in with apriori assumption of Allen being guilty, therefore nullifying their original point entirely.

John: Absolutely we should have sympathy for victims - but remember this is a re-airing of a case that had been dealt with long ago. Where they did file criminal charges that were dismissed.

I think we should also have sympathy for people who's lives might be destroyed by false accusations of one of the worst crimes a person can commit.

  On 2/7/2014 at 12:24 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 10:12 AM, Gocab said:

 

  On 2/7/2014 at 5:49 AM, joshuatx said:

 

But honestly, it's really this very subtle anti-woman tone that permeates his work.

 

He's selfish, sets up unrealistic female partners in his films and real life, perpetually relies on his neurotic persona, and has used his psychoanalysis obsession IRL for decades.

 

I call bullshit on this. Aren't you the guy who has only seem Antz?

 

lol if this were 2005 I believe the word would be "pwned".

Point taken. But those are all perpetual traits of his IRL persona and well-documented aspects of his films, I don't have to subject myself to his filmography to point that out. I have far better things to do with my time.

Look, I've seen most of Annie Hall over a couple partial viewings, I think I might like Sleeper so I'll probably watch it eventually. I appreciate the cinematography of this scene below. I just really don't like his persona and confounded at the people I know who "love" his films.

As someone mentioned earlier, I've become pretty apathetic about the allegations :/

I completely agree and unfortunately because of many of Woody Allen's own statements it's too easy to believe these accusations. It reminds me (in a less extreme way) of the sexual assault accusations leveled at Terry Richardson over the years. While i do think that it would be extremely morally wrong to accuse an innocent person of a crime and try to ruin their reputation publicly, man is it easy for me to believe it in his case too.
I also didn't realize this was already aired in a real criminal court.

  On 2/8/2014 at 12:35 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

I completely agree and unfortunately because of many of Woody Allen's own statements it's too easy to believe these accusations. It reminds me (in a less extreme way) of the sexual assault accusations leveled at Terry Richardson over the years. While i do think that it would be extremely morally wrong to accuse an innocent person of a crime and try to ruin their reputation publicly, man is it easy for me to believe it in his case too.

I also didn't realize this was already aired in a real criminal court.

I'm just curious, what statements do you think incriminate him? I think all of the responses that I have read of his in regard to the accusations showed a man furious at being accused of such an act.

i just mean some of his psychosexual revelations over his whole career, I can't remember any of them specifically. but on the other hand putting myself in his shoes, I should have every right to exude an unorthodox or societally distasteful sexual extroversion and not be accused of being a pedophile. So maybe I'm just a hypocrite

  On 2/8/2014 at 12:49 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

i just mean some of his psychosexual revelations over his whole career, I can't remember any of them specifically. but on the other hand putting myself in his shoes, I should have every right to exude an unorthodox or societally distasteful sexual extroversion and not be accused of being a pedophile. So maybe I'm just a hypocrite

I think you just stated my argument much more clearly than I have been throughout the thread. :)

  On 2/7/2014 at 8:52 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

just curious, how many people in this thread like fucking/dating extremely young women who are 30+ years their junior?

maybe it makes me old fashioned to find doing that sleazy as fucking hell, sad, pathetic and mid-life crisis freak-outty but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

puritan. Bet that gets you all the ladies, all the old ladies, from the land beyond cougar.

There's a huge age gap between my wife and I. I'm only disappointed because I wasn't quite able to be double her age, bummer. Come at me, Robbie! lol.

As I was saying before, I think it's perfectly normal biologically speaking to be attracted to just-post-puberty women. Keep in mind how much social mores have changed; back in the middle ages women were routinely being married at 12, 13, 14 etc. There's a simple biological reason for this - young mothers make healthy babies. I was reminded of this when my wife had her kid - no complications, baby came out fine - whereas I have many friends whose wives can't conceive and are going down the unhappy road of fertility treatments...

I think I'm very non-judgmental about sex-type stuff in general (otherwise I'd be a hypocrite). About the only thing I still find shocking is gender reassignment surgery, as it seems so much like self-mutilation to me, but even there I'll just throw up my hands and say "hey, you're an adult, knock yourself out."

when I was in my teens/early 20s I also had a visceral reaction to relationships with a huge age gap where the man was a lot older, I assumed he was sleazy, creepy, into the father-daughter thing, whatever. I thought it showed bad character, there would be an inherent imbalance of power, etc. Of course this was before I realized just how fucking tough it is to make *any* relationship work. Life can be a lot like "Magnolia", without the musical cues and frogs. So a guy might get a thrill from playing a more teacherly role...okay. Or maybe he's partially motivated by a certain kind of nostalgia. Or he just likes hot young chicks. As long as there's some real love there on both sides, who am I to judge? I've certainly seen plenty of examples of abusive relationships where both partners were near the same age.

I honestly don't think my personal situation colors my perception of this case, apart from being able to conceive of how an older man and younger woman could have a normal-ish relationship that doesn't make me want to barf. And maybe gives me the nuance of vision to not automatically conflate a winter-spring relationship with pedophilia.

Woody posted his response in the New York Times (same columnist who published Dylan's letter): http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/woody-allen-speaks-out.html