How to get into the music business?

Pay no attention the music in my sig.

I think the idea of business in art is 100% waste of energy. Its easy to get sucked into thinking you can make something "people will like" with your skills and talent. In the end when you think youre going to be the next big boy nobody gives a fuck because your og base is lost and youre left caring about what some fucktards you dont even like think... Like why the Fuck would you try to appeal to "those" fucktards in the first place?

Im not fenigrating current successful musicians. What i am saying is that there is no inherently "cool" sound. Only good and bad music. Dont fall for chaning your approach to fit things. As long as you follow the original reason you will make something good.

The original reason you started making music is the ONlY good reason. It is the only thing that will ever lead to good music. When you are making something to listen to in your bed with headphones, or to blast in your car for yourself, then you are doing the correct reason.

When you are obsessively teying to figure out what people like, getting frustrated, being ignored, and feeling annoyed by idiots and their shitty music, wrong reason, though necessary.

The "business" is ONLY networking, contacting labels, playing live, and sorting out particulars of distribution or whatever the boring fuck you can. Many very boring, shitty musicians have this stuff down.

And then there is that minor place of "perception" and trend. Labels run the music world, and they have a way of hearing. Do not get mixed up. What they release is not and has never been inherently "real" music. Just because they put some guys stuff on wax and wont even listen to yours or think yours is not trendy does not necessarily mean that you need to change your approach. This is the biggest pitfall. Thinking that because people are talking about some guy on review sites and blogging his stuff en masse for a month and then forgetti it within the month to a year, does not mean your music needs to be altered to reach the same foal.

I know my tone is abrasive, i just felt these things needed to be said. The phony label situation is coming to a close. Wax is dying off. The object is being squeezed off like a turd. Twitter game is for the phony. Label critic game is for the phony. Fuck the labels. Music is not a trend and cannot be controlled by image where you have to conform to their idea of what is good music. New fields will open up.

  On 2/12/2014 at 10:14 PM, ZoeB said:

Talking of Forbes and niche electronic music, they've picked up on the renaissance of cottage industry synths right now... With so many electronic music makers around now, we've become a reasonably significant market of consumers as much as product makers...

yeah mainly electronic music makers. Traditional instruments will stay the same, like classical music. For electronic music, there is just so much shit on the internet. All I see is more teenagers making "music" on their computer and put it on soundcloud. It's turning into Youtube given how easy it is to make music on the computer. It's pure composition skills, instrument performance skills are not needed. So more electronic music will be released by amateurs for free, and people are unwilling to pay for music anymore.

Based on people's mentalities I've seen, live shows are still worth going. Electronic equipment/controller business is rising since more kids want to make their own music. Traditional music might die out slowly as more younger generations listen to more electronic shit.

  On 2/12/2014 at 10:33 PM, vamos scorcho said:

Pay no attention the music in my sig.

 

 

 

 

I think the idea of business in art is 100% waste of energy. Its easy to get sucked into thinking you can make something "people will like" with your skills and talent. In the end when you think youre going to be the next big boy nobody gives a fuck because your og base is lost and youre left caring about what some fucktards you dont even like think... Like why the Fuck would you try to appeal to "those" fucktards in the first place?

 

Im not fenigrating current successful musicians. What i am saying is that there is no inherently "cool" sound. Only good and bad music. Dont fall for chaning your approach to fit things. As long as you follow the original reason you will make something good.

 

The original reason you started making music is the ONlY good reason. It is the only thing that will ever lead to good music. When you are making something to listen to in your bed with headphones, or to blast in your car for yourself, then you are doing the correct reason.

 

When you are obsessively teying to figure out what people like, getting frustrated, being ignored, and feeling annoyed by idiots and their shitty music, wrong reason, though necessary.

 

 

 

The "business" is ONLY networking, contacting labels, playing live, and sorting out particulars of distribution or whatever the boring fuck you can. Many very boring, shitty musicians have this stuff down.

 

And then there is that minor place of "perception" and trend. Labels run the music world, and they have a way of hearing. Do not get mixed up. What they release is not and has never been inherently "real" music. Just because they put some guys stuff on wax and wont even listen to yours or think yours is not trendy does not necessarily mean that you need to change your approach. This is the biggest pitfall. Thinking that because people are talking about some guy on review sites and blogging his stuff en masse for a month and then forgetti it within the month to a year, does not mean your music needs to be altered to reach the same foal.

 

 

I know my tone is abrasive, i just felt these things needed to be said. The phony label situation is coming to a close. Wax is dying off. The object is being squeezed off like a turd. Twitter game is for the phony. Label critic game is for the phony. Fuck the labels. Music is not a trend and cannot be controlled by image where you have to conform to their idea of what is good music. New fields will open up.

Yes people who only want to make music to make money should just quit. It's like playing the lottery. You make music because you enjoy making music, simple as that.

  On 2/12/2014 at 10:33 PM, vamos scorcho said:

Pay no attention the music in my sig.

 

 

 

 

I think the idea of business in art is 100% waste of energy. Its easy to get sucked into thinking you can make something "people will like" with your skills and talent. In the end when you think youre going to be the next big boy nobody gives a fuck because your og base is lost and youre left caring about what some fucktards you dont even like think... Like why the Fuck would you try to appeal to "those" fucktards in the first place?

 

Im not fenigrating current successful musicians. What i am saying is that there is no inherently "cool" sound. Only good and bad music. Dont fall for chaning your approach to fit things. As long as you follow the original reason you will make something good.

 

The original reason you started making music is the ONlY good reason. It is the only thing that will ever lead to good music. When you are making something to listen to in your bed with headphones, or to blast in your car for yourself, then you are doing the correct reason.

 

When you are obsessively teying to figure out what people like, getting frustrated, being ignored, and feeling annoyed by idiots and their shitty music, wrong reason, though necessary.

 

 

 

The "business" is ONLY networking, contacting labels, playing live, and sorting out particulars of distribution or whatever the boring fuck you can. Many very boring, shitty musicians have this stuff down.

 

And then there is that minor place of "perception" and trend. Labels run the music world, and they have a way of hearing. Do not get mixed up. What they release is not and has never been inherently "real" music. Just because they put some guys stuff on wax and wont even listen to yours or think yours is not trendy does not necessarily mean that you need to change your approach. This is the biggest pitfall. Thinking that because people are talking about some guy on review sites and blogging his stuff en masse for a month and then forgetti it within the month to a year, does not mean your music needs to be altered to reach the same foal.

 

 

I know my tone is abrasive, i just felt these things needed to be said. The phony label situation is coming to a close. Wax is dying off. The object is being squeezed off like a turd. Twitter game is for the phony. Label critic game is for the phony. Fuck the labels. Music is not a trend and cannot be controlled by image where you have to conform to their idea of what is good music. New fields will open up.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here, but I think there are world's of difference with each style of music and how the business-side fits in. It all depends on the genre/format.

For the typical bedroom braindance/IDM, or for experimental/noise/ yes, you are spot on. But I think when it comes to dance music or music that's kind of geared toward reaching a larger audience (and yes, I think that goal is not inherently bad, like many people will claim), there are certain levels of quality/standards that labels look for in order invest in them.

I guess it all depends on what you want your goal to be. OPer may want to become the next David Guetta, or may want to become the next Kavinsky, or want to run a small tape label out of his/her basement. Each of these three different types of aspirations are all equally beautiful goals imo-- of course as long as there is the love of music behind it, leading the motivation. I also don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to blow the f*ck up or make a bunch of money with ones art. Just as there's nothing wrong with wanting to give away music for free and jam and experiment all day and night. Those who scold or judge either goal/dream are simply imposing their own judgments on other people's aspirations.

Sorry for the rant, it's directed at no one in particular, but I've just heard so many negative sentiments when it comes to "pop", "music biz" "networking", etc etc.

Get "into" the music biz? You could hunt producers in coffee shops from LA to Paris and slip a thumb drive into their laptops as you walk by... You could attend NAMM, expos, ASCAP conferences... You could do something crazy and get it viral on Gawker... You could tour for 5 years in a shitty van and finally jump on tour with Battles... You could slang mixtapes on a street corner or to young'ns in the mall... You could do nothing but make incredible music and see what happens...

Last pretentious ending line: The game is wide open... No rules... There is really no music business "out there" or the "way to do xyz".. It's in the way we perceive.. it's always evolving, and you're a part of it. :D

related question: how do you convince people you're not interested in getting into the biz?

cuz any time i mention something involving production irl, people go

"you should try making money off it"

and i go "i just like doing it as a hobby tho"

and they'll go "i bet you can make those songs for commercials"

and i go "i bet i can eat a whole bag of candy in one go"

I think the solution here is to release an album called The loss of Control that's just, like, 50 minutes of old people farting. Then people would go "oh, he's that guy who got arrested for hanging around outside the retirement home with a microphone & a bag of exlax" instead of "oh i wonder if this guy could make me a dubstep remix for my indie rock album"

  On 2/13/2014 at 1:02 AM, Cryptowen said:

related question: how do you convince people you're not interested in getting into the biz?

cuz any time i mention something involving production irl, people go

 

"you should try making money off it"

and i go "i just like doing it as a hobby tho"

and they'll go "i bet you can make those songs for commercials"

and i go "i bet i can eat a whole bag of candy in one go"

 

I think the solution here is to release an album called The loss of Control that's just, like, 50 minutes of old people farting. Then people would go "oh, he's that guy who got arrested for hanging around outside the retirement home with a microphone & a bag of exlax" instead of "oh i wonder if this guy could make me a dubstep remix for my indie rock album"

...

.....

..

Richard..?

Good labels are essentially just filters for shit music. The alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud. Fuck that, we need labels - this entire online community wouldn't exist if it weren't for Rephlex/Warp etc.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with taking the weird shit you do in your bedroom to amuse yourself and looking around to see if anyone else likes it - providing its done in the spirit of sharing and collective good times, rather than conforming to a genre to make money and puff up your ego.

  On 2/13/2014 at 12:44 AM, pafr said:

 

  On 2/12/2014 at 10:33 PM, vamos scorcho said:

Pay no attention the music in my sig.

 

 

 

 

I think the idea of business in art is 100% waste of energy. Its easy to get sucked into thinking you can make something "people will like" with your skills and talent. In the end when you think youre going to be the next big boy nobody gives a fuck because your og base is lost and youre left caring about what some fucktards you dont even like think... Like why the Fuck would you try to appeal to "those" fucktards in the first place?

 

Im not fenigrating current successful musicians. What i am saying is that there is no inherently "cool" sound. Only good and bad music. Dont fall for chaning your approach to fit things. As long as you follow the original reason you will make something good.

 

The original reason you started making music is the ONlY good reason. It is the only thing that will ever lead to good music. When you are making something to listen to in your bed with headphones, or to blast in your car for yourself, then you are doing the correct reason.

 

When you are obsessively teying to figure out what people like, getting frustrated, being ignored, and feeling annoyed by idiots and their shitty music, wrong reason, though necessary.

 

 

 

The "business" is ONLY networking, contacting labels, playing live, and sorting out particulars of distribution or whatever the boring fuck you can. Many very boring, shitty musicians have this stuff down.

 

And then there is that minor place of "perception" and trend. Labels run the music world, and they have a way of hearing. Do not get mixed up. What they release is not and has never been inherently "real" music. Just because they put some guys stuff on wax and wont even listen to yours or think yours is not trendy does not necessarily mean that you need to change your approach. This is the biggest pitfall. Thinking that because people are talking about some guy on review sites and blogging his stuff en masse for a month and then forgetti it within the month to a year, does not mean your music needs to be altered to reach the same foal.

 

 

I know my tone is abrasive, i just felt these things needed to be said. The phony label situation is coming to a close. Wax is dying off. The object is being squeezed off like a turd. Twitter game is for the phony. Label critic game is for the phony. Fuck the labels. Music is not a trend and cannot be controlled by image where you have to conform to their idea of what is good music. New fields will open up.

Yes people who only want to make music to make money should just quit. It's like playing the lottery. You make music because you enjoy making music, simple as that.

 

Great post.

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:12 AM, westhead said:

Good labels are essentially just filters for shit music. The alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud. Fuck that, we need labels - this entire online community wouldn't exist if it weren't for Rephlex/Warp etc.

 

This is about the only thing I agree with that vamos didn't express. I think a good label also establishes a "canon" and certain sense of quality control that doesn't quite fall into constant trends. Not just Warp or Rephlex or Mu or Skam but also newer labels like say, Hyperdub or Hotflush or Night Slugs - very little filler/missteps in their catalog. They have just as many underrated and overllooked releases that have aged well.

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:12 AM, westhead said:

Good labels are essentially just filters for shit music. The alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud. Fuck that, we need labels - this entire online community wouldn't exist if it weren't for Rephlex/Warp etc.

 

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with taking the weird shit you do in your bedroom to amuse yourself and looking around to see if anyone else likes it - providing its done in the spirit of sharing and collective good times, rather than conforming to a genre to make money and puff up your ego.

Very well-put.

I know alot of musicians in my town that spend all their time hustling. Stuff like spamming their friends to vote for them in local music polls. Made me realize that I just wanna listen to music made by someone who only really cares about making music. Which is kind-of a catch-22 'cause those people tend to be less visible.

^ spot on! (the last 3 posts)

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:32 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:12 AM, westhead said:

Good labels are essentially just filters for shit music. The alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud. Fuck that, we need labels - this entire online community wouldn't exist if it weren't for Rephlex/Warp etc.

 

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with taking the weird shit you do in your bedroom to amuse yourself and looking around to see if anyone else likes it - providing its done in the spirit of sharing and collective good times, rather than conforming to a genre to make money and puff up your ego.

 

Very well-put.

 

I know alot of musicians in my town that spend all their time hustling. Stuff like spamming their friends to vote for them in local music polls. Made me realize that I just wanna listen to music made by someone who only really cares about making music. Which is kind-of a catch-22 'cause those people tend to be less visible.

 

well local artists like that want either 1. popularity and pussies 2. want to make music but doesn't know shit about music and/or doesn't spend enough time and effort to learn about music and/or doesn't know how to go about it. I'd say both but most people tend to go 80% on #1. They only care a little and they just want to party. What's the point of parties and live shows of shitty artists? Answer is simple: pussies.

I believe I've said that before. That's why I don't care much about playing live. Also look all those motherfuckers playing live. They don't even DJ their own music. Those DJs are fucking pathetic. They are purely for the popularity and pussies, and they don't really give a fuck about music. That' what I've observed in Seattle electronic music scene.

So why can't those men and women of such honour fornicate and do drugs during other times? Because they are pathetic, lacking the social skills and get anxious about picking up men/women when the social scene isn't setup like a party social environment where people are expected to socialize in a certain way.

People are nothing but a bunch of horny fucking robots. And I don't know why women put those retarded DJs high up on the pedestal, probably retarded themselves. Retarded men and retarded women, sounds like a good match to me.

In other words, party scenes are basically the same as high school dance parties. I went to one when I was in high school. Felt disgusted by the silly shit people do just so they can get laid. Decided I would never go to another high school dance party again.

Great thread!

how to get into music business > remember childhood music lessons where you twaddled around making random noise - think of cool name - design your image - record some stuff - chuck most of it out and keep the least shit - sign up for band camp - sit back, twiddle thumbs - watch that limited cdr sell out in only two years, max - put something else out - tell everyone you're in a band - give them band camp URL to look at - sometimes get gig at local pub, pocket £50 - reach 24 years old, feel past it - give it - spend life telling everyone you were once a musician.

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:12 AM, westhead said:

the alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud.

Speak for yourself, there's a surprising amount of excellent stuff on there that is only "shared" in genre-centered groups at best.. I go there all the time to get material for Dj-sets

  On 2/13/2014 at 3:25 PM, chim said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:12 AM, westhead said:

the alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud.

 

Speak for yourself, there's a surprising amount of excellent stuff on there that is only "shared" in genre-centered groups at best.. I go there all the time to get material for Dj-sets

I was only simplifying for effect and to make a point tbh, I've discovered some rad music and people there too.

Music biz- simple as 1,2,3... All you have to do is comment on youtube videos with "check out my trk plz!?!" and youre instantly in the biz.

  On 2/13/2014 at 7:54 AM, pafr said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:32 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 2/13/2014 at 5:12 AM, westhead said:

Good labels are essentially just filters for shit music. The alternative is spending months trawling through dubstep on Soundcloud. Fuck that, we need labels - this entire online community wouldn't exist if it weren't for Rephlex/Warp etc.

 

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with taking the weird shit you do in your bedroom to amuse yourself and looking around to see if anyone else likes it - providing its done in the spirit of sharing and collective good times, rather than conforming to a genre to make money and puff up your ego.

 

Very well-put.

 

I know alot of musicians in my town that spend all their time hustling. Stuff like spamming their friends to vote for them in local music polls. Made me realize that I just wanna listen to music made by someone who only really cares about making music. Which is kind-of a catch-22 'cause those people tend to be less visible.

 

well local artists like that want either 1. popularity and pussies 2. want to make music but doesn't know shit about music and/or doesn't spend enough time and effort to learn about music and/or doesn't know how to go about it. I'd say both but most people tend to go 80% on #1. They only care a little and they just want to party. What's the point of parties and live shows of shitty artists? Answer is simple: pussies.

 

I believe I've said that before. That's why I don't care much about playing live. Also look all those motherfuckers playing live. They don't even DJ their own music. Those DJs are fucking pathetic. They are purely for the popularity and pussies, and they don't really give a fuck about music. That' what I've observed in Seattle electronic music scene.

 

So why can't those men and women of such honour fornicate and do drugs during other times? Because they are pathetic, lacking the social skills and get anxious about picking up men/women when the social scene isn't setup like a party social environment where people are expected to socialize in a certain way.

 

People are nothing but a bunch of horny fucking robots. And I don't know why women put those retarded DJs high up on the pedestal, probably retarded themselves. Retarded men and retarded women, sounds like a good match to me.

 

In other words, party scenes are basically the same as high school dance parties. I went to one when I was in high school. Felt disgusted by the silly shit people do just so they can get laid. Decided I would never go to another high school dance party again.

 

pafr you got problems

Yeah, I've got shit load of problems, but thanks for reminding me.

np

a little update. I'm currently unemployed and broke, and I was brainstorming different ways to approach my financial situation, aka make money. Don't worry, I'm fine. I'm actually feeling much better than a month or so ago, so that's good news. I just thought I should waste less time on watmm (but then engaging with fans is important for promotion).

I've thought about the music industry. Of course, people should make music because they love making music regardless of money. But money is important in life too. If you don't make much from making music, then you'd have to support yourself one way or another. Having a job helps. But being a full time composer/artist would be most musicians' dreams right? I was thinking about whether I could actually live off the money I make by making music. I haven't released much music yet, but should I invest more time into that or something else (programming jobs definitely pay better though).

Now, here is a little breakdown of what I thought about. There are a lot of different ways a musician can go. For people here, the most obvious approach is to make music, release albums, play in live shows, engage with fans. Music business in general, whether it's mainstream or big label or underground or small label etc, it's all about money. Music is subjective enough that all kinds of people like all kinds of different stuff. There is no right or wrong, and it's silly to compare artists of who's better or who's worse (e.g. look at mainstream pop music, those musicians are pretty shitty in terms of skills and art, but they have a lot of fans, and they make shit load of money). Then it's about how much fan a musician can garner. Look at Die Antwoord. I think their music is pretty bad in terms of quality, but they have a lot of youtube views. I assume their fans are mostly kids. So their business model has a lot to do with their image, similarly to Lady Gaga. Then look at rdj or aaron funk, they are more oriented toward better quality production of music, and I assume their fan base is very different from Die Antwoord.

It's all about connections and people skills:

So in the end, it's really about how many fans/customers any musician can get. In order to do that, people market and promote themselves differently. With the music industry in general, I feel partly it's because of luck, and partly because connections you have with others in the music industry. Considering the local DJs in Seattle, I think most of them are shit, but they keep on playing regularly at their regular clubs, and they get paid here and there. People love them, people know them. So it creates a rather intimate connections between the artists and fans. So most artists start local, and they grow their fan base as their play more and get more people to like them. In that sense, it's really about building connections with people in the music industry. You need people to help host and throw parties. Then you have artists. An artist can also do both, the organizing and performance. If you have great people skills, then making connections with others should be rather easy.

Other options for musicians:

Of course, the music scene isn't the be all and end all for musicians, especially if you compose music. Depending on your background in music you can do a lot of things. Most classically trained musicians, especially if they studied music in college, provide tutoring lessons to make a living. If you can compose all kinds of stuff, then maybe composing for movies, commercials, or video games might be a good choice too. Here is a good article in composing for video games. It's really about what kind of skills you have. If you know programming or sound engineering, then you can be a sound engineer. For instance, in the video game Portal 2, they've gone beyond regular music in video games. They used procedurally generated music in the game, now that requires programming and music theory. Musicians and artists should look at skills they have and be creative in thinking about different ways they can contribute to various projects or various ways to promote your music in the music industry (like my browser game+music idea I posted in another thread)

Me:

So I've also done some self-reflection on what's the best for me. It seems that the music scene, especially the party/rave music scene, might not be the best option for me. When I was in junior high, I had a dream to compose music for video games. I started listening to video game and movie soundtracks long before I discovered electronic music. Those areas do have a lot of overlaps. It seems that the music scene is more oriented toward dance type of music. Now, if you listen to the tracks I've made. Some of them can be a bit dancy, but most of them are rather braindance/IDM. But if you think about it, some stuff I make, like Contrapuntal Eingyi, is more geared toward soundtrack music. I've also observed people's preferences in the music scene. It seems they like more dance oriented (i.e. more beat oriented) music. Like people here are more toward modern music, rather than classical or jazz music. I feel like my style leans toward the classical type. (I'm currently working on a strictly Baroque style fugue composition). It might make sense for me to look into composing for video games and movies and such, making soundtracks, rather than releasing albums. Of course I still enjoy making braindance music, and I'll release something in the future. I had the idea of making fugue braindance music. I haven't heard anyone else doing that kind of music whatsoever.

I'm also currently trying to listen to more classical, jazz, contemporary piano, etc. type of music. Check out the Jerry Martin, he does mostly soundtrack stuff, but some of his music, for instance the SimCity 3000 soundtrack, sounds somewhat IDM-ish. It's really hard to categorize music into genres. People compose all kinds of shit all over the place. It's really about what you make and who your fans and listeners are.

Hopefully the next time I'll post here, it'll be in the EKT section with my new releases. Until then, take care.