How many watmm trolls are paid by their governments to be here?

John Erlichman confirmed for CIA undercover OP agent.

meant chemical weapons, regarding syria, above. not nuclear obviously

J.E. works for the government (=me) and he's creating propaganda to confuse you.

  Quote

 

 

you do know that they are sitting on a pile of un-released leaks right? It's funny how often people default to this position, that these things aren't for innocent people. I can guarantee that the assertion they aren't for 'innocent people' will be in time proven false, as it has been in the past repeatedly.

Sure, if the evidence comes, I will be the first to agree. Until then, I wont jump to conclusions.

A critical note though: if they do sit on that pile, why not jump to the nasty stuff instead of the "government creates propaganda" stuff without the "well, this might actually be used under specific conditions - like in order to catch criminals...?"

The red flags from the past wont leave us surprised when these tactics are used on a far more larger scale than needed. Until that time, innocent until proven guilty, with a critical and sceptic eye, just because of all the past red flags.

best answer:

"all of them."

posted by Skibby

sorry i was meaning to quote Godel mr Derwood

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:26 PM, very honest said:

 

there are endless similar examples of her finding just the right angle with which to make obama look bad to her global audience, turning people against the harvard law valedictorian who raised more small donations and resisted corporate donations more than any other presidential nominee in recent history, who averted a global financial collapse, ended one war and is nearly done ending another,

Ok i see where you're coming from now, the truth is I think Obama is a fucking piece of shit and deserves every bit of criticism he gets from anybody on the left including my sister or anyone else. If you're accusing my sister of spin, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're claiming she does in your previous post in terms of spinning things to make this said piece of shit be in a positive light. Not meaning to undermine you or condescend, but I would take criticisms of her content much more seriously from someone who still wasn't in the bag for Obama (and im not talking about republican assholes either). I'm actually surprised to hear anything even remotely praisey of him like that after the NSA debacle blew up in his face

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:51 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sorry i was meaning to quote Godel mr Derwood

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:26 PM, very honest said:

 

there are endless similar examples of her finding just the right angle with which to make obama look bad to her global audience, turning people against the harvard law valedictorian who raised more small donations and resisted corporate donations more than any other presidential nominee in recent history, who averted a global financial collapse, ended one war and is nearly done ending another,

Ok i see where you're coming from now, the truth is I think Obama is a fucking piece of shit and deserves every bit of criticism he gets from anybody on the left including my sister or anyone else. If you're accusing my sister of spin, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're claiming she does in your previous post in terms of spinning things to make this said piece of shit be in a positive light. Not meaning to undermine you or condescend, but I would take criticisms of her content much more seriously from someone who still wasn't in the bag for Obama. I'm actually surprised to hear anything even remotely praisey of him like that after the NSA debacle blew up in his face

please tell me one thing that makes obama a piece of shit. or if you need multiple things, whatever.

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:42 PM, goDel said:

Until that time, innocent until proven guilty, with a critical and sceptic eye, just because of all the past red flags.

it's a nice tagline, more of a motto than a reality now though, kinda like that old addedge 'against unreasonable search and seizure' ah the good ole days

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:54 PM, very honest said:

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:51 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sorry i was meaning to quote Godel mr Derwood

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:26 PM, very honest said:

 

there are endless similar examples of her finding just the right angle with which to make obama look bad to her global audience, turning people against the harvard law valedictorian who raised more small donations and resisted corporate donations more than any other presidential nominee in recent history, who averted a global financial collapse, ended one war and is nearly done ending another,

Ok i see where you're coming from now, the truth is I think Obama is a fucking piece of shit and deserves every bit of criticism he gets from anybody on the left including my sister or anyone else. If you're accusing my sister of spin, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're claiming she does in your previous post in terms of spinning things to make this said piece of shit be in a positive light. Not meaning to undermine you or condescend, but I would take criticisms of her content much more seriously from someone who still wasn't in the bag for Obama. I'm actually surprised to hear anything even remotely praisey of him like that after the NSA debacle blew up in his face

 

please tell me one thing that makes obama a piece of shit. or if you need multiple things, whatever.

 

refusing to close Gitmo, refusing to stand up for human rights conventions as set by international criminal courts and/or the Geneva conventions, allowing torture to continue in the form of renditions in 'black sites', apologizing for and then increasing the illegal George W Bush created international NSA spying grid, lying through his teeth about holding anybody from the Bush administration accountable for illegal acts, namely torture ,the NDAA act that allows the assassination of american citizens with no due process, his increase in the use of robotic drones to murder people based on GPS cellphone location data, his murdering of the 16 year old son of anwar awlaki. These are just a few, but honestly people on here have heard me ramble enough about how i hate Obama. I'm very much in line with Glenn Greenwald politically speaking, so go check out some of his pre-Snowden leaked articles on how Obama is a cunt if you need more reasons.

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:54 PM, very honest said:

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:51 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sorry i was meaning to quote Godel mr Derwood

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:26 PM, very honest said:

 

there are endless similar examples of her finding just the right angle with which to make obama look bad to her global audience, turning people against the harvard law valedictorian who raised more small donations and resisted corporate donations more than any other presidential nominee in recent history, who averted a global financial collapse, ended one war and is nearly done ending another,

Ok i see where you're coming from now, the truth is I think Obama is a fucking piece of shit and deserves every bit of criticism he gets from anybody on the left including my sister or anyone else. If you're accusing my sister of spin, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're claiming she does in your previous post in terms of spinning things to make this said piece of shit be in a positive light. Not meaning to undermine you or condescend, but I would take criticisms of her content much more seriously from someone who still wasn't in the bag for Obama. I'm actually surprised to hear anything even remotely praisey of him like that after the NSA debacle blew up in his face

 

please tell me one thing that makes obama a piece of shit. or if you need multiple things, whatever.

 

the ndaa

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:57 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:54 PM, very honest said:

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:51 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sorry i was meaning to quote Godel mr Derwood

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:26 PM, very honest said:

 

there are endless similar examples of her finding just the right angle with which to make obama look bad to her global audience, turning people against the harvard law valedictorian who raised more small donations and resisted corporate donations more than any other presidential nominee in recent history, who averted a global financial collapse, ended one war and is nearly done ending another,

Ok i see where you're coming from now, the truth is I think Obama is a fucking piece of shit and deserves every bit of criticism he gets from anybody on the left including my sister or anyone else. If you're accusing my sister of spin, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're claiming she does in your previous post in terms of spinning things to make this said piece of shit be in a positive light. Not meaning to undermine you or condescend, but I would take criticisms of her content much more seriously from someone who still wasn't in the bag for Obama. I'm actually surprised to hear anything even remotely praisey of him like that after the NSA debacle blew up in his face

 

please tell me one thing that makes obama a piece of shit. or if you need multiple things, whatever.

 

refusing to close Gitmo, refusing to stand up for human rights conventions as set by international criminal courts and/or the Geneva conventions, allowing torture to continue in the form of renditions in 'black sites', apologizing for and then increasing the illegal George W Bush created international NSA spying grid, lying through his teeth about holding anybody from the Bush administration accountable for illegal acts, namely torture ,the NDAA act that allows the assassination of american citizens with no due process, his increase in the use of robotic drones to murder people based on GPS cellphone location data, his murdering of the 16 year old son of anwar awlaki. These are just a few, but honestly people on here have heard me ramble enough about how i hate Obama. I'm very much in line with Glenn Greenwald politically speaking, so go check out some of his pre-Snowden leaked articles on how Obama is a cunt if you need more reasons.

 

he was well underway transferring gitmo detainees (there were around two thirds left) when in may 2009 congress passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 disallowing further transfer of inmates. this relevent piece of fact is conveniently omitted by a lot of republican news sources.

the ndaa took the power to assassinate us citizens away from congress and consolidated it with the presidency, another fact that's generally not reported.

calling anwar's son's death murder is an unsubstantiated accusation. he very well could have been hanging out with terrorists just like his dad, and wasn't targeted, like the military said. or does the government always lie? am i supposed to assume they always lie?

rather than drones, would you rather the us miliary send troops into harms way based on gps data of terrorists known to be real and imminent threats?

apologizing for us intelligence surveillance, you mean explaining it?

when you say refusing to stand up for human rights, you mean that because obama hasn't enforced human rights around the world he is a piece of shit? its a big task.

expanded nsa spying, i guess you mean not completely reversing the trajectory. he has taken strides toward reforming the situation there, the reforms from earlier this year, his national defense speech in which he acknowledged that the war on terror cannot go on indefinitely. citizens don't know what intelligence agencies know, they have reasons for wanting access to information. there are like 6 ways the world could end tomorrow that i can think of off the top of my head, and you think obama is a piece of shit for not blindfolding our national defense apparatus.

i think i just debunked all those. you can try again.

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:57 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:54 PM, very honest said:

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:51 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

sorry i was meaning to quote Godel mr Derwood

 

  On 2/25/2014 at 11:26 PM, very honest said:

 

there are endless similar examples of her finding just the right angle with which to make obama look bad to her global audience, turning people against the harvard law valedictorian who raised more small donations and resisted corporate donations more than any other presidential nominee in recent history, who averted a global financial collapse, ended one war and is nearly done ending another,

Ok i see where you're coming from now, the truth is I think Obama is a fucking piece of shit and deserves every bit of criticism he gets from anybody on the left including my sister or anyone else. If you're accusing my sister of spin, you seem to be doing exactly the same thing you're claiming she does in your previous post in terms of spinning things to make this said piece of shit be in a positive light. Not meaning to undermine you or condescend, but I would take criticisms of her content much more seriously from someone who still wasn't in the bag for Obama. I'm actually surprised to hear anything even remotely praisey of him like that after the NSA debacle blew up in his face

 

please tell me one thing that makes obama a piece of shit. or if you need multiple things, whatever.

 

refusing to close Gitmo, refusing to stand up for human rights conventions as set by international criminal courts and/or the Geneva conventions, allowing torture to continue in the form of renditions in 'black sites', apologizing for and then increasing the illegal George W Bush created international NSA spying grid, lying through his teeth about holding anybody from the Bush administration accountable for illegal acts, namely torture ,the NDAA act that allows the assassination of american citizens with no due process, his increase in the use of robotic drones to murder people based on GPS cellphone location data, his murdering of the 16 year old son of anwar awlaki. These are just a few, but honestly people on here have heard me ramble enough about how i hate Obama. I'm very much in line with Glenn Greenwald politically speaking, so go check out some of his pre-Snowden leaked articles on how Obama is a cunt if you need more reasons.

 

It sounds like you think the president has absolute power and the ability to change all those things if they are in fact true. The president isn't "all powerful and all knowing".. =S

You think he stamps his approval on all those things? (I don't know much about american politics I just think it's farfetched to think the president is solely responsible for all of those things.)

That's nice but where in the fuck is my legal weed?

Putting aside the issue of whether or not governments will be targeting innocent citizens with these nefarious hacking techniques (social manipulation is still the most effective means of computer espionage), do people honestly think governments won't be using social media to try and influence the public discourse?

Also: honeypots are generally not effective forms of espionage (I'd never heard that type of espionage termed that way before, but terminology is not so important here). They are, however, effective for detecting unauthorized network penetration.

Also: very honest - staring down North Korea was not very difficult, considering they don't have the capability to launch a nuclear attack against America (or any other nation for that matter). Putting a nuclear weapon on an ICBM is a very challenging proposition, and the North Koreans do not have that technology yet. China's public shaming of NK has had little effect on their actual policy toward NK and in fact they are pursuing further economic ties with NK.

  On 2/26/2014 at 12:30 AM, chenGOD said:

Also: very honest - staring down North Korea was not very difficult, considering they don't have the capability to launch a nuclear attack against America (or any other nation for that matter). Putting a nuclear weapon on an ICBM is a very challenging proposition, and the North Koreans do not have that technology yet. China's public shaming of NK has had little effect on their actual policy toward NK and in fact they are pursuing further economic ties with NK.

the danger of north korea was never north korea, it's china. china moving to our side on the subject means the subject is less of a trigger between super powers. no small achievement.

the same could be said for how putin told assad to relinquish the chemical weapons during careful diplomacy done under obama's watch.

Lol China is not on America's side on the NK issue, they simply are attempting to maintain some stability in the region for their own economic gain. China's rise is not a danger to the US in physical terms, it's purely economics. Triggers for conflict in the region are the territorial disputes, not NK.

  On 2/26/2014 at 12:20 AM, very honest said:

 

i think i just debunked all those. you can try again.

are you being facetious? You 'debunked' them by using the classic 'impotent presidency' excuse, one of the oldest and tired Obama defenses. Regardless, I give you props for even viewing Abby's show while still towing the line for the current president, i think it's a good thing to seek out information that contradicts with your own beliefs.

edit: oh sorry i thought you meant you 'debunked' them in your 1st post, but I disagree that you've 'debunked' a single one in your followup post. I'm going to take the easy way out on this one and just agree to disagree, i've spent far too much time already trying to convince Obama supporters of his ways. To me this is not necessary after the NSA spying scandal, I'm frankly surprised that anyone of a left persuasion could even remotely support him at this point, just solely based on the idea that if a republican gets in for 2016, he'll have access to the same amount of ridiculous power. So in short i'm not going to 'try again' because people who feel the same way I do have already turned the tide of public opinion on Obama, im sorry for you that you remain unconvinced.

  On 2/26/2014 at 12:30 AM, chenGOD said:

do people honestly think governments won't be using social media to try and influence the public discourse?

unthinkable

Let's fight the forces of evil. Everyone, hold my hands.

thanks for the article, andihow.

thanks for existing on watmm, JE :P

  On 2/26/2014 at 12:53 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 2/26/2014 at 12:20 AM, very honest said:

i think i just debunked all those. you can try again.

 

I'm frankly surprised that anyone of a left persuasion could even remotely support him at this point, just solely based on the idea that if a republican gets in for 2016, he'll have access to the same amount of ridiculous power. So in short i'm not going to 'try again' because people who feel the same way I do have already turned the tide of public opinion on Obama, im sorry for you that you remain unconvinced.

The irony is that saying " anyone of the left persuasion" answers straight away why people of a left persuasion might still support him. The only extra thing needed is the notion that he's the president for all americans with all persuasions. Left, right, up, down. And there are leftists who are sensitive to this notion which could be called relativity. But I'm sure you've heard this argument plenty before.

His job is to ride the line between all persuasions. So, in this sense, it really doesn't matter which president is in the Whitehouse. If every president executes the stuff he should be executing - by law- , and takes into account all persuasions within the US, the outcome should be similar. Which is awefully similar to saying the US gets the president it deserves.

...but there's also the congress and senate which have to do their part... Are you blaming him of Washington being disfunctionate as well? The current disfunctioning is legendary, is all I'm saying. If there are terrorists on the loose in the us, I'd be looking at those idiots.

yeah i've heard it before, to be honest i'm not really interested in continuing a debate about Obama

but I've been reading this very interesting Reddit thread about this First Look story

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ywspe/new_snowden_doc_reveals_how_gchqnsa_use_the/

Havent read the entire reddit, but regardless, knowing these tactics, it would be interesting to see if they were used on Aaron Swartz. If so, the potentially devastating effect, and possibly irresponsible use, is shown in a heartbeat.

Edit: if there's a story here, you could make Abby frontside news for bringin it up.

would be nice if Joyrex could do some sleuthing here on watmm to see if gov or corp sock puppet accounts are fucking with the forum