How Does WATMM Feel About CWLP Piracy/Streaming?

I post a lot of tracks to Youtube. I had Thomas from Planet-Mu contact me some time ago and say something along the lines of "hey, could you put links to the page from our site so people can buy the stuff?" I thought that was pretty cool and went back and put information for every release (as far as I recall) on where to legally acquire it (which has increasingly become bandcamp pages). I try to keep the policy of not putting things on Youtube above a certain quality, at least I did for awhile. I don't know what audio quality I've put recent stuff in, but it used to be limited to 128 kbps, I think. It's not like it's as easy for the layperson to rip stuff off Youtube. When it comes to the people that do know how to, chances are they could get it anywhere else just as easily at a higher quality. I don't get any money from my uploads and I do it for the sake of people being able to share tracks they like with others in the off-chance they become interested and go get a bunch of that person's records in some manner.

Recently, Warp has made it so that you can't upload any of their releases without it being flagged for copyright immediately. They then go on to upload it, sometimes, to their own channel. I think they just want to keep it to their brand or something; though, they haven't gone back on some older releases and flagged those at all, just new ones. They uploaded the entirety of "Exai," as well as a few other albums. They didn't upload a single piece of "L-Event" though, for some reason. They removed it when I tried to upload "tac Lacora."

What I am very annoyed about is actually that I still don't have my download link for the CW album. I paid and want my download! Where is it?

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:21 PM, Bertolt Brechtakt said:

What I am very annoyed about is actually that I still don't have my download link for the CW album. I paid and want my download! Where is it?

Checked the spam folder (or the 'promotions' folder in case of gmail)? Are you sure the payment was successful (there should be a confirmation mail, as well as multiple kickstarter updates before the downloadlink itself)? Maybe there is another mailadress you used for funding the kickstarter?

If not, then I'd suggest contacting Joyrex.

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:31 PM, Herr Jan said:

 

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:21 PM, Bertolt Brechtakt said:

What I am very annoyed about is actually that I still don't have my download link for the CW album. I paid and want my download! Where is it?

Checked the spam folder (or the 'promotions' folder in case of gmail)? Are you sure the payment was successful (there should be a confirmation mail, as well as multiple kickstarter updates before the downloadlink itself)? Maybe there is another mailadress you used for funding the kickstarter?

 

If not, then I'd suggest contacting Joyrex.

 

Payment was confirmed by Amazon (and also booked off my account). My last update email from Kickstarter is from May 20th. I will contact Joyrex then.

Cheers.

My point of view (for what it's worth)

I buy music whenever possible. It's usually a better quality version and I like to show my appreciation by supporting the artist.

I consider youtube to be a very good way to preview songs. Nothing more.

  On 6/18/2014 at 1:16 PM, Bertolt Brechtakt said:

 

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:31 PM, Herr Jan said:

 

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:21 PM, Bertolt Brechtakt said:

What I am very annoyed about is actually that I still don't have my download link for the CW album. I paid and want my download! Where is it?

Checked the spam folder (or the 'promotions' folder in case of gmail)? Are you sure the payment was successful (there should be a confirmation mail, as well as multiple kickstarter updates before the downloadlink itself)? Maybe there is another mailadress you used for funding the kickstarter?

 

If not, then I'd suggest contacting Joyrex.

 

 

Payment was confirmed by Amazon (and also booked off my account). My last update email from Kickstarter is from May 20th. I will contact Joyrex then.

Cheers.

 

The email with the voucher was sent with webmaster@watmm.com. There were a few mails through kickstarter about this project after May 20th though, so something isn't right I figure.

When you're in a record shop you usually listen to a record before spending a blind 16$ for it, that wasn't possible here, if you grab the files to give a listen first but it's too late to pay one cannot really blame you

illegal download & streaming allow fantastic discoveries and I reckon most of people pay to get top quality audio of it, if it doesn't cost 50€ the slab of vinyl heh, which is unfortunately often the case

  On 6/18/2014 at 6:33 AM, messiaen said:

i pirate alot of music, i also buy alot of music, honestly i dont give a fuck. the artists i love get my money. stepheng seems pretty irate about piracy at the same time as having mentioned making a shitload of money, what would you do if you were skint stephen. only listen to one new tune a week? i dont think you would. i think you would adapt to your financial situation, enjoy everything you do, but ensure you make an effort to pay for the music you adore.

 

bggrit prawn and shrimp

 

yeah long story short, i spend between 20-100 pounds in any given week on tunes, so if you think im a dick for downloading stuff aswell then you can bite my tiny banger.

Post of the Thread.

  On 6/18/2014 at 6:58 AM, auxien said:

I can go download the new VHS Head from Bleep or I can go torrent it. I end up with the EXACT same file. It's mine to listen to on my computer or any other compatible device forever. If I were to listen to the album stream on a YouTube playlist, I have to be on the internet, on YouTube's site, and hunt and search for it.

You also would have to be on the Internet, on Bleep's site, or on some third party file host's site, or on some torrent tracker, and hunt and search for it. The method of acquisition isn't much different, and it doesn't matter because the method of playback is going to be whatever you choose after acquiring it. The question is cost - are you willing to pay money for digital (read: non-tangible) files? If so, are you still willing to pay for them when you can get them for free? The first is more of a philosophical question. The second is purely a question of logic.

  On 6/18/2014 at 8:02 AM, Retrig said:

What exactly is the argument here? Where is anyone losing? Is it because you really thought you'd be one of the elite that would get to hear it?

Muh sekrit club. No one's losing, people are just mad that they paid money for something they ought to have known would be available to them for free immediately upon release. Either they were really that naïve and/or they're sucking Rephlex's collective dick by crying piracy (which is further hilarity considering it does no harm).

  On 6/18/2014 at 8:06 AM, Retrig said:

Beyond that, I couldn't even download the .flac version after downloading my legitimate 320 mp3 because I navigated away from the page.

Thank goodness for pirate sites to grab the flacs.

Funny how it always happens that the unofficial method of acquiring music digitally always ends up easier, more user-friendly, and oftentimes even higher-quality than the official method.

  On 6/18/2014 at 9:23 AM, Phoenix said:

**glances at 1.5 tb of stockpiled warez**

 

i have no problem with it

**glances at 4TB external filled with music**

I have problems.

  On 6/18/2014 at 10:12 AM, MIXL2 said:

I will repeat this.

 

If it wasn't for sites like YouTube and p2p networks I would have never found out about this forum or this kind of music.

 

It's sad but it is like it is.

How on earth is that sad at all? Are you saying you wish you never found out about this forum or this kind of music?

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:18 PM, Xyrofen said:

I post a lot of tracks to Youtube. I had Thomas from Planet-Mu contact me some time ago and say something along the lines of "hey, could you put links to the page from our site so people can buy the stuff?" I thought that was pretty cool and went back and put information for every release (as far as I recall) on where to legally acquire it (which has increasingly become bandcamp pages).

That is brilliant and exactly how it should be handled. Big kudos to Thomas and Planet-Mu.

http://gizmodo.com/googles-about-to-ruin-youtube-by-forcing-indie-labels-t-1591957089

  On 6/18/2014 at 5:54 PM, KyonPalm said:

 

  On 6/18/2014 at 6:33 AM, messiaen said:

i pirate alot of music, i also buy alot of music, honestly i dont give a fuck. the artists i love get my money. stepheng seems pretty irate about piracy at the same time as having mentioned making a shitload of money, what would you do if you were skint stephen. only listen to one new tune a week? i dont think you would. i think you would adapt to your financial situation, enjoy everything you do, but ensure you make an effort to pay for the music you adore.

 

bggrit prawn and shrimp

 

yeah long story short, i spend between 20-100 pounds in any given week on tunes, so if you think im a dick for downloading stuff aswell then you can bite my tiny banger.

Post of the Thread.

  On 6/18/2014 at 6:58 AM, auxien said:

I can go download the new VHS Head from Bleep or I can go torrent it. I end up with the EXACT same file. It's mine to listen to on my computer or any other compatible device forever. If I were to listen to the album stream on a YouTube playlist, I have to be on the internet, on YouTube's site, and hunt and search for it.

You also would have to be on the Internet, on Bleep's site, or on some third party file host's site, or on some torrent tracker, and hunt and search for it. The method of acquisition isn't much different, and it doesn't matter because the method of playback is going to be whatever you choose after acquiring it. The question is cost - are you willing to pay money for digital (read: non-tangible) files? If so, are you still willing to pay for them when you can get them for free? The first is more of a philosophical question. The second is purely a question of logic.

  On 6/18/2014 at 8:02 AM, Retrig said:

What exactly is the argument here? Where is anyone losing? Is it because you really thought you'd be one of the elite that would get to hear it?

Muh sekrit club. No one's losing, people are just mad that they paid money for something they ought to have known would be available to them for free immediately upon release. Either they were really that naïve and/or they're sucking Rephlex's collective dick by crying piracy (which is further hilarity considering it does no harm).

  On 6/18/2014 at 8:06 AM, Retrig said:

Beyond that, I couldn't even download the .flac version after downloading my legitimate 320 mp3 because I navigated away from the page.

Thank goodness for pirate sites to grab the flacs.

Funny how it always happens that the unofficial method of acquiring music digitally always ends up easier, more user-friendly, and oftentimes even higher-quality than the official method.

  On 6/18/2014 at 9:23 AM, Phoenix said:

**glances at 1.5 tb of stockpiled warez**

 

i have no problem with it

**glances at 4TB external filled with music**

 

I have problems.

  On 6/18/2014 at 10:12 AM, MIXL2 said:

I will repeat this.

 

If it wasn't for sites like YouTube and p2p networks I would have never found out about this forum or this kind of music.

 

It's sad but it is like it is.

How on earth is that sad at all? Are you saying you wish you never found out about this forum or this kind of music?

  On 6/18/2014 at 12:18 PM, Xyrofen said:

I post a lot of tracks to Youtube. I had Thomas from Planet-Mu contact me some time ago and say something along the lines of "hey, could you put links to the page from our site so people can buy the stuff?" I thought that was pretty cool and went back and put information for every release (as far as I recall) on where to legally acquire it (which has increasingly become bandcamp pages).

That is brilliant and exactly how it should be handled. Big kudos to Thomas and Planet-Mu.

  On 6/18/2014 at 5:58 PM, MIXL2 said:

It's sad in the sense that music distribution nowadays kind of depends on it being pirated.

That's just for digital distribution, though, and that's how it should be (in my opinion).

  On 6/18/2014 at 6:24 PM, KyonPalm said:

 

  On 6/18/2014 at 5:58 PM, MIXL2 said:

It's sad in the sense that music distribution nowadays kind of depends on it being pirated.

That's just for digital distribution, though, and that's how it should be (in my opinion).

Is a difficult subject.

Its inevitable that it would be pirated but it sucks hard that its all over YouTube and it won't get taken down. I think RDJ and grant would be fools not to back more kick starter campaigns... Its the only way they can get money from this if they have no intention of actually organising a release themselves.

The first I knew that caustic window had been released was a link popping up on my tumblr feed. I then knew it was time to check my emails for the download voucher.

I think in this day and age where music is relatively cheap and easier than ever to acquire, there really shouldn't be any reason for someone to pirate something (and not end up paying for it) - the problem is getting folks to understand than if they don't buy music and support artists they claim they like, they are taking the incentive away for artists to release music and try to make a living off it.

That being said, it's inevitable people will pirate something, and the best one can hope for is enough people legitimately buy something despite it's availability via piracy.

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:13 AM, Joyrex said:

I think in this day and age where music is relatively cheap and easier than ever to acquire, there really shouldn't be any reason for someone to pirate something (and not end up paying for it) - the problem is getting folks to understand than if they don't buy music and support artists they claim they like, they are taking the incentive away for artists to release music and try to make a living off it.

But... It's not possible anymore to pay for the CWLP, right?

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:13 AM, Joyrex said:

I think in this day and age where music is relatively cheap and easier than ever to acquire, there really shouldn't be any reason for someone to pirate something (and not end up paying for it) - the problem is getting folks to understand than if they don't buy music and support artists they claim they like, they are taking the incentive away for artists to release music and try to make a living off it.

 

That being said, it's inevitable people will pirate something, and the best one can hope for is enough people legitimately buy something despite it's availability via piracy.

Torrenting is great compared to the guys who go into Best Buy and stuff cds in their front pants pocket and walk out with a buncha killer waxxx. I mean, it actually costs money to have the CD printed, getting the artwork and the fancy box it comes in made. I can download an album illegally and the label would have no clue whatsoever that i touched their product.

Going out and stealing CD's is a total crime tho

Torrenting an album in a digital format to get a taste of what it has to offer is not

downloading is killing kickstarted unreleased digital vinyls

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:21 AM, triachus said:

 

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:13 AM, Joyrex said:

I think in this day and age where music is relatively cheap and easier than ever to acquire, there really shouldn't be any reason for someone to pirate something (and not end up paying for it) - the problem is getting folks to understand than if they don't buy music and support artists they claim they like, they are taking the incentive away for artists to release music and try to make a living off it.

 

But... It's not possible anymore to pay for the CWLP, right?

 

Bid on the LP on Ebay - it's your only legal choice

I'm joking btw, I don't really see the harm tbh. You can't legally buy this anymore (except for the vinyl for > $23,000). But that's a ridiculous price to pay to listen to something like this. I no longer buy anything without listening to some of it first now, so i don't have this either.

internet killed the audiostar

Pretty sure youtube recognizes if a copyrighted song is in a video and pays labels for that, people still get money even when it's posted on youtube.

I'm not sure though. I remember posting an aphex twin concert which contained some of his songs and it auto-recognized one of them and put links to it in the description area.

To me it makes more sense that the CWLP is on Youtube, than Rephlex not releasing MFM and AB5 properly for people to buy.

  On 6/19/2014 at 1:09 AM, sonnyskare said:

Pretty sure youtube recognizes if a copyrighted song is in a video and pays labels for that, people still get money even when it's posted on youtube.

only entities that have already submitted their 'fingerprint' data to youtube or places like soundcloud. There was never any public push or announcement by youtube to include indie labels or indie musicians into the same level of copyright protection. There are millions of copyrighted songs right now on youtube that were uploaded without permission from the artist and simply stay up because youtube does not have the copyright data to compare it to in their system.

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:13 AM, Joyrex said:

I think in this day and age where music is relatively cheap and easier than ever to acquire, there really shouldn't be any reason for someone to pirate something (and not end up paying for it) - the problem is getting folks to understand than if they don't buy music and support artists they claim they like, they are taking the incentive away for artists to release music and try to make a living off it.

 

That being said, it's inevitable people will pirate something, and the best one can hope for is enough people legitimately buy something despite it's availability via piracy.

What if you're like my friend and so broke that he lives with his mom in a church basement it's about the size of one bedroom.

I guess he doesn't deserve to listen to anything because he wont be able to pay for nearly all of it.

I think in this day and age you should give up fighting for something like this and just deal with it. The people who will pay and can pay will and the ones who don't want to or can't wont.

here is a smile :>

  On 6/19/2014 at 3:14 AM, DorkingtonPugsly said:

 

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:13 AM, Joyrex said:

I think in this day and age where music is relatively cheap and easier than ever to acquire, there really shouldn't be any reason for someone to pirate something (and not end up paying for it) - the problem is getting folks to understand than if they don't buy music and support artists they claim they like, they are taking the incentive away for artists to release music and try to make a living off it.

 

That being said, it's inevitable people will pirate something, and the best one can hope for is enough people legitimately buy something despite it's availability via piracy.

 

What if you're like my friend and so broke that he lives with his mom in a church basement it's about the size of one bedroom.

I guess he doesn't deserve to listen to anything because he wont be able to pay for nearly all of it.

 

I think in this day and age you should give up fighting for something like this and just deal with it. The people who will pay and can pay will and the ones who don't want to or can't wont.

 

 

 

 

here is a smile :>

 

Why does he live in such an abode with no money?

Honest question.

Is he disabled, a war vet, or something else that would render him unable to contribute to society at a level that he might have an extra 20-40$ monthly to spend on music?

If so, he has an excuse for not paying for music.

Edit: before you get the wrong impression, I'm the first person to help people in need whether that's with money/labour/a person to talk to etc (I think at least a few watmmers would attest to that...). I'm just struggling with this concept that some people should pay for stuff they consume and other people shouldn't....

  On 6/19/2014 at 12:51 AM, vincentvc said:

downloading is killing kickstarted unreleased digital vinyls

/thread