looks quite possible cameron is covering up the discovery of a new oilfield in scotland

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/massive-oil-find-off-coast-of-scotland-hushed-up-till-after-referendum/

 

 

http://yes2014.net/2014/08/01/oil-around-shetland-could-be-more-than-it-appears/

 

 

 

 

its fascinating the amount of tricks they have up their sleeve to trick people into voting to keep the union. the papers literally every day are filled with shit, a recent one that tickled me was 'yes vote could delay cure for cancer'

 

 

not sure how many people living in scotland are on here, whats the consensus. yes or no?

Whether the Scots want separation is fine, I just think it's a really bad time to think about it, what with most of the world in the shit economically. Even if there are oilfields and stuff being found, I'm not sure if that's a sure thing to keep them afloat financially and will end up ruining theirselves. But if it does, then why not?

 

Also I'm a quarter Scottish. Not that really matters either way. Shortbread is nice.

personally I'm will be voting Naw. Its such an emotive subject up here at the moment but I'm voting with my head for many reasons.

Its not that i dont think Scotland or its people arent capable of ruling themsleves, i just see it as a backwards step reducing the people of Scotlands influence and there options further. Such is my dislike and distrust of politicians, I dont see why moving a decision from Westminster to Edinburgh makes an one iaota of a difference, they are still all corrupt and self serving. whether they are English, Welsh or Scottish. Why leave the UK Union when we still need to be part of a larger European Union and will have even less of a say and influence.

 

For me the referendum has been done backwards. We are being asked to vote on a hypothetical situation where none of the key details have been decided:

EU Membership - Automatic or do we need to jump through hoops for years with no guarantee?

Currency - New, Retain the £ under BoE control ?

We have no idea which party will be in power post independence and what their policies / bugets look like etc.

Its pretty certain that the smaller scottish market would lead to dearer mortgages, credit etc. My current mortgage

is with an "British" lender - i have no idea if i could keep it with them, continue to pay in GBP or what happens post any independence

So much uncertainty can only be a bad thing for stability and future prospects.

 

I work for a large Multinational Oil Co. who have already stated that (due to all of the above) that independence would be a bad thing.

I would pretty much expect my office of 400-500 in Glasgow to be moved abroad ( London or the East) if its a Yes. for them its just an added layer of complications, admin and costs that they dont really need. ( Currently the have one set of tax and legal regimes to work in, post independence it would be two - not too mention any new currency to pay in etc) the job is a finance / service job that can be done anywhere in the world really. So unless the company has real Scottish links ( ie not a Multinational) its a no brainer for them.

economics of the times puts into even starker relief the need for separation from the union. The UK is going to hell, do you want to go down with it? Protect your borders from mass immigration and build a shining nation that will be the envy of your peasant cousins to the south.

  On 8/4/2014 at 1:19 PM, Malkmus said:

personally I'm will be voting Naw. Its such an emotive subject up here at the moment but I'm voting with my head for many reasons.

Its not that i dont think Scotland or its people arent capable of ruling themsleves, i just see it as a backwards step reducing the people of Scotlands influence and there options further. Such is my dislike and distrust of politicians, I dont see why moving a decision from Westminster to Edinburgh makes an one iaota of a difference, they are still all corrupt and self serving. whether they are English, Welsh or Scottish. Why leave the UK Union when we still need to be part of a larger European Union and will have even less of a say and influence.

 

For me the referendum has been done backwards. We are being asked to vote on a hypothetical situation where none of the key details have been decided:

EU Membership - Automatic or do we need to jump through hoops for years with no guarantee?

Currency - New, Retain the £ under BoE control ?

We have no idea which party will be in power post independence and what their policies / bugets look like etc.

Its pretty certain that the smaller scottish market would lead to dearer mortgages, credit etc. My current mortgage

is with an "British" lender - i have no idea if i could keep it with them, continue to pay in GBP or what happens post any independence

So much uncertainty can only be a bad thing for stability and future prospects.

 

I work for a large Multinational Oil Co. who have already stated that (due to all of the above) that independence would be a bad thing.

I would pretty much expect my office of 400-500 in Glasgow to be moved abroad ( London or the East) if its a Yes. for them its just an added layer of complications, admin and costs that they dont really need. ( Currently the have one set of tax and legal regimes to work in, post independence it would be two - not too mention any new currency to pay in etc) the job is a finance / service job that can be done anywhere in the world really. So unless the company has real Scottish links ( ie not a Multinational) its a no brainer for them.

Well said.

 

 

  On 8/4/2014 at 1:22 PM, delet... said:

economics of the times puts into even starker relief the need for separation from the union. The UK is going to hell, do you want to go down with it? Protect your borders from mass immigration and build a shining nation that will be the envy of your peasant cousins to the south.

not sure what's going on with you at the moment dude, but the majority of your posts lately have been fatalistic reactionary nonsense. the post above makes you look a bit silly mate, like you really have no clue about the subject. you may be trolling of course, in which case good job, but if you're serious, then like - you're talking rubbish. Edited August 4, 2014 by BCM

My posts are not reactionary, there is just a massive gulf between my understanding of reality and that of the status quo mindset, which itself is an artificial construct built by propaganda disseminated in the media etc. It can be hard to see a slow motion train crash when it's still ongoing. Your country is in a terrible state, are you denying this? Scotland needs to decouple from the generally tory land south of the border to be able to realise it's socio political aspirations, are you denying this as well?

 

In my opinion, london and birmingham should have giant walls built around them and be left to their own devices, akin to how israel deals with palestine. Would save england and the english from the festering rot at it's heart. Which side of the wall would you like to reside on? The people inside it can continue to enjoy rising rents, property prices and population whilst being ruled over by neoliberal fascists. And those outside can enjoy the dynamic and stable 21st century economy that would develop based in an unbulldozed green and pleasant land.

lol wtf you've turned into compson

Birmingham is pretty terrible though, especially now all the HMVs have gone

Edited August 4, 2014 by Bechuga

lol

lol

  On 8/4/2014 at 1:49 PM, oscillik said:

lol

 

  On 8/4/2014 at 1:50 PM, BCM said:

lol

this has actually reminded me i haven't even remembered to register to vote. il be voting yes simply because i so strongly dislike the way the current uk goverment is handling the country, along with the rise in UKIP popularity bringing a distinvt possiblity of a ConIP (?) coalition to power in the UK.

 

 

its worth noting that the conservatives have barely ever won a seat in scotland. il admit to being only partially well read and educated on ideas of serious politics and economics though, so if a yes vote is the wrong idea, im frankly prepared to risk it for the sake of removing the snooty, melted face multi millionaire fuckbags currently dismantling the NHS, leaving poor people to die of starvation from draconian sanctioning and gradual removal of the safety net for the unemployed (an estimated 5000 dead from poverty inflicted by sanctioning in the last 3 years)

 

so yeah.

 

 

its aye for me. and for almost everyone of my acquaintences, which is a number in the hundreds, so while it might be an innaccurate segment of population because they are almost all under 35 and into parties, says alot.

another huge point, if we go independent, not only will the trident nuclear system be removed from scotland (put there because the annihalation of the population of glasgow is 'an acceptable level of collateral damage), the uk will have nowhere to put them atall, because anywhere remotely near london is out the question for any of the politians who live there.

also, interesting, the largest estimate at the cost of the severing is put at 1.2 billion. the cost of the proposed high speed train from london to birmingham, benefitting no-one in scotland in absolutely any way, shape or form, and yet still paid for by them, is at 22 billion.

i also think the UK is grossly overpopulated. i can see shit really hitting the fan with many aspects of keeping people fed, watered, and electricitied in the next 50-80 years (possibly considerably sooner) and 65 million people living on a chunk of land a 5th of the size of texas does not bode well.

 

 

to have 5 million seems like it will be much safer, and more managable.

we're all going to die.

 

we're living in Utopia.

The responses of the english in this thread illustrate why they are fucked. heh. Still i was born there so maybe there's hope for you yet ;-p

I don't know how things are in the UK, but the Spanish insistence on the "indivisible unity of the Spanish nation" and the insinuation that in order to be a decent, progressive, country you need to speak a language that has been the official language of an empire and that anything else is automatically "nationalistic" makes me sympathetic to independence movements in general. Being kicked out of the EU is almost a plus, we'll go through tough times but it can only lead towards reindustrialisation and in any case it's a crippling blow to the gangsters that run Catalonia these days (for example the mayor of the Old Town in Barcelona had to step down because hotel-owner mafiosi were threatening her and absolutely nothing happened to them.)

 

Imo in order to do away with the nation state, first it has to be proved in practice that the rhetoric of the old nation states who say they're the sole guardians of universality is a load of bollocks. There is nothing nationalistic about this, and since otherwise things pretty much stay the same (they move neither leftwards nor rightwards), it's worth a try. Although of course there are extreme right-wing movements like Lega Nord, and you can't compare Scotland with the regional backwaters of France.

don't care one way or another if scotland vote to leave the union really, good luck to them if they do. however, the UK and England as a country are nowhere near fucked in any way. so many people these days have this odd desire to wish along the end of the world, huge natural disasters, world war 3 etc. it's a weird kind of ghoulish fantasy that certain types like to believe in - ie that we're all fucked one way or another, The End is somehow inevitable or near at hand and that Big Things are afoot. the reality is that nothing much has changed, nothing much will change and the world is actually doing ok. not particularly exciting or news worthy, but it's the truth I'm afraid. nothing to see here....move on.

Edited August 4, 2014 by BCM

thats the reality is it? youve looked into it, done the studying? or just decided thats what you think about it.

Edited August 4, 2014 by messiaen

  On 8/4/2014 at 4:40 PM, BCM said:

don't care one way or another if scotland vote to leave the union really, good luck to them if they do. however, the UK and England as a country and nowhere near fucked in any way. so many people these days have this odd desire to wish along the end of the world, huge natural disasters, world war 3 etc. it's a weird kind of ghoulish fantasy that certain types like to believe in - ie that we're all fucked one way or another, The End is somehow inevitable or near at hand and that Big Things are afoot. the reality is that nothing much has changed, nothing much will change and the world is actually doing ok. not particularly exciting or news worthy, but it's the truth I'm afraid. nothing to see here....move on.

This is why I feel the Better Together campaign is an after thought, it's more about showing face than anything else. Does anyone in England who didn't migrate from Scotland care?

if it doesnt make any difference to england wether scotland stays or not, why does the goverment emply so many media scare tactics and hire so many people to persuade the scottish to vote No?

Says BCM, speaking loudly to drown out the sound of the ground crumbling beneath him.

why the fuck you having a go at me? I'm not even entering into your debate really, trying to get through to delet... on the scotland issue, i said I'm not bothered and good luck to them if they decide to leave. what i was trying to establish with my other argument is that the world and state of things today is generally ok and the human race is doing pretty well considering. people who say things like, the UK is on its way to hell etc are just plain wrong for a start and peddling a defeatist and fatalistic version of reality that really isn't true...everyone should relax, we're all ok. it's not perfect sure, but we're not living in hell or anything approaching it.

Edited August 4, 2014 by BCM

  On 8/4/2014 at 4:40 PM, BCM said:

don't care one way or another if scotland vote to leave the union really, good luck to them if they do. however, the UK and England as a country and nowhere near fucked in any way. so many people these days have this odd desire to wish along the end of the world, huge natural disasters, world war 3 etc. it's a weird kind of ghoulish fantasy that certain types like to believe in - ie that we're all fucked one way or another, The End is somehow inevitable or near at hand and that Big Things are afoot. the reality is that nothing much has changed, nothing much will change and the world is actually doing ok. not particularly exciting or news worthy, but it's the truth I'm afraid. nothing to see here....move on.

 

lol. i envy you if england is doing fine, but 3 or 4 hours by plane away from you the world has most definitely been getting worse for a long time now, whether you go east or south. not to talk about how absurd the global economy is, between the impossible demands of finance capital and the ludicrous concentration of ALL of the world's industry in china (where the world is most definitely not "doing ok") and an essential part of all agriculture in third-world countries (where things are also not "ok"). this is only tangentially related to the independence of Scotland but come on!

Edited August 4, 2014 by poblequadrat

Americans are going to be shocked as shit if/when this happens, because our media hasn't said word one about Scottish independence. Its going to seem like it came out of nowhere like all those other easily predictable things.

Edited August 4, 2014 by doublename