Mathematicians Study Effects of Gerrymandering On 2012 Election

i get republican ideals, i really do, i just dont want to live in the wild west. i think wall street should be regulated, there should be some social safety nets, and taxes should at least be equal (capital gains, i.e. investment profits, is the lowest percentage, noone talks about touching that). i guess it's appropriate that the parties are divided along this principle of government vs no government, so the line is kept in check. its clear which half of the mechanism is currently in need of correction. what's terrible is they're just spending millions on a propaganda war thats horrifically effective.

Really? I don't get people with neo-republican/libertarian ideals at all.
That's because people who want to abolish the social contract are generally not very farsighted. They would do well to revisit the birth of the modern social contract, wherein Hobbes describes life without a political community thus:

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In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

they think it's not practical to trust institutions to spend your money for you. the main draw of the republican party is they claim to stand for lower taxes.

they think removing the incentive of starvation, besides meaning higher taxes, will also just perpetuate laziness. this is undoubtedly true, but the incentive of starvation also is a major fuel for crime. dealing with that crime would also cost money.

they say why help others with things like healthcare? you remove the incentive for people to take control of their own lives. the stance doesnt take into account all those situations in which it couldnt be helped, that someone was born poor, and despite the right attitude, wasn't able to secure stability by the time they needed it, and now they're fucked, or their family member is fucked, and there's nothing they can do. that could be you, the democrats say, so help people out. why help everyone out, the republicans say, are we going to give health care to all the animals on earth, next? besides, thats my money. i dont want to, they say.

see, i get it. there are some good points to make. it just seems like the selfishness of the republican party has gone way too far. it seems to me like this particular batch of republicans, overall, they dont stand for your right to be selfish, they stand for their right to be selfish.

obama may not be perfect, but i think a lot of people are just buying propaganda from these republican think tanks that are fed millions of dollars to churn up and disseminate visceral rhetoric, not shying from blatant falsehood, let alone mischaracterization, pandering to knee-jerk stances on contentious issues.

No, I mean, I understand what their political stance is, I just don't get why they would take that particular stance. Again, they need to revisit what life would be like without a political community: solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

I believe the attidue comes from repeated viewings of Rambo: First Blood, Red Dawn, Wall Street, and some documentary on Ayn Rand.

  On 12/6/2014 at 10:21 AM, chenGOD said:

No, I mean, I understand what their political stance is, I just don't get why they would take that particular stance. Again, they need to revisit what life would be like without a political community: solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

 

I believe the attidue comes from repeated viewings of Rambo: First Blood, Red Dawn, Wall Street, and some documentary on Ayn Rand.

 

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plus a lot of masturbating to backstreet boys videos

 

This pretty much sums it up. As someone who flirted quite heavily myself with libertarian views years and years ago, I simply couldn't find myself defending or apologizing for so much of it's hypothetical, detached reasoning. There's a lot of delusion and superficial cynicism that feeds into the mindset of many GOP voters, many of whom are working or lower middle class.

I will listen to an actual survivalist ultra libertarian type if it's someone who literally lives off the land and is self-sufficient, even if I won't agree with much of their worldview. The sad fact is the loudest and most obnoxious right-wingers are ones who espouse hypocrisy in their own lifestyles. It's absurd how many subdivision homes I see populated by these people - in houses built by undocumented immigrants and lobbyist connected corporations - that have vehicles with "come and take it / don't tread on me" bumper stickers. Of course, once called out they simply pull out a conspiracy-oriented defense or cite some liberal hypocrisy, even if it's not related to the discussion at hand. That's what I've encountered anyway.

All that said, there's probably a much bigger factor to all of this: a lot of people simply don't vote or vote with such a lack of even basic research that they vote straight ticket Republican or Democratic...often based on what their friends and family do. The political discourse we so often discuss here and likewise observe in the news isn't even acknowledged or discussed by a lot of Americans. Campaigning, including all of the local level efforts, is literally a game to so many involved in politics. Many people I know who enthusiastically voted for Romney or Obama could hardly articulate solid, factual reasons why. Likewise, some of my more informed friends didn't even vote out of disillusionment.

  On 12/6/2014 at 8:05 AM, very honest said:

they think removing the incentive of starvation, besides meaning higher taxes, will also just perpetuate laziness. this is undoubtedly true

how can you say that's "undoubtedly true" when it's never happened? what are you basing that certainty on?