How does the World view America these days?

  On 4/16/2015 at 1:08 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/16/2015 at 9:21 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/16/2015 at 3:15 AM, eugene said:

the cop wouldn't get cleared so fast if there was any suspicion of misconduct.

Ahahahahh yeah there's no corruption in police departments.

you can pull that argument about any issue any time which makes it kinda meaningless.

When it's about a public body whose mandate is to serve and protect the people, it kind of makes it less meaningless.

Corruption in the apple markets doesn't quite have the same impact. Know what I mean Verne?

what i mean is it doesn't make sense to pull out the corruption argument out of nowhere and for no reason. is there any evidence of some serious corruption in that particular department where the cop got cleared? or is it just some general spirit of corruption that cops carry with them?

am i the only one who, at the moment of collision, thought "where's the yee'hah" over-dub?

  On 4/16/2015 at 3:50 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

In the full video he turns towards the cops, shows his rifle fires it into the air, and then starts walking. They should have just shot him. There was no need to run him over. He had a gun that he discharged in public, and apparently was ignoring the police orders. They were AOK to take him down as he was posing a threat to the people around him.

 

Also, Chen I will respond to your questions in a bit, but I'm very busy atm.

 

@ ~2:08

 

  On 4/17/2015 at 2:02 AM, eugene said:

what i mean is it doesn't make sense to pull out the corruption argument out of nowhere and for no reason. is there any evidence of some serious corruption in that particular department where the cop got cleared? or is it just some general spirit of corruption that cops carry with them?

Police corruption is widely acknowledged as being an almost universal problem - it is not limited to the United States. It's obviously very difficult to examine police corruption because of the "Blue Wall of Silence". For a more thorough examination of the problem read pp. 596-600 here: http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7125&context=jclc

It makes clear sense to raise the corruption issue - these are public servants. You can google arizona corruption and take a look for yourself at the extent to which corruption is pervasive in Arizona police departments.

Define serious? How much corruption has to exist before it's considered "serious"? This officer essentially acted as judge and sentencer, and it's extremely fortunate that the individual lived. And yet he was cleared of any wrongdoing very quickly. You can hear the other cops going "jesus christ" in the video, and they're not in a place of worship, so it's a reasonable assumption that they're blaspheming out of shock.

There is no doubt that the individual committed several crimes - however the police officer's responsibility is to bring the suspect in for trial. Not to act as judge and executioner (imagine if he'd died good lord we would have an even bigger shit show on our hands).

  On 4/16/2015 at 1:03 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/16/2015 at 9:49 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/16/2015 at 9:26 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/16/2015 at 3:50 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

In the full video he turns towards the cops, shows his rifle fires it into the air, and then starts walking. They should have just shot him. There was no need to run him over. He had a gun that he discharged in public, and apparently was ignoring the police orders. They were AOK to take him down as he was posing a threat to the people around him.

 

Also, Chen I will respond to your questions in a bit, but I'm very busy atm.

 

@ ~2:08

 

He fires the gun into the air. The air.

Maybe some birds are at risk?

The guy is clearly mentally ill.

The police had done what looks like a good job of clearing the streets. There was no one for him to pose a danger to, except for police - and I would hazard a guess there's something in the job description about danger for police.

 

Weren't you advocating for defunding the police? Who's gonna pay for the broken wall, damage to the other vehicle, damage for the police vehicle etc etc.

This act is reprehensible.

 

Still at least no one died. Yay I guess.

 

 

You know that bullets fired into the air come down eventually? It doesn't matter if he is ill. That makes no difference to the fact that he is a person wielding a deadly weapon and discharging it within city limits where there are people. He is only about 100 yards from a very busy street. He is near lots of buildings. I highly doubt they are all empty. He is not responding to officers. He turned towards officers and brandished his weapon. He is responsible for the fact that he crossed the line into becoming a threat. They dealt with that threat and saved others from getting injured. I'm sure the police will cover the broken items. Generally the people who cause damage are responsible for it. I think you're being too quick to call something "reprehensible". It's definitely not reprehensible. A little crazy maybe. Yes, I was not totally serious about defunding the police. I only think that they need to momentarily be defunded so that they can reevaluate their purpose. I also believe that they need about 50% of their budget under the current system, but I would like to have a police force that has highly educated and trained folks that get paid well, and not undereducated, undertrained, and poorly vetted folks.

 

 

Shit, do they? Gravity, how does that work.

 

Do you know that people who are mentally ill are very often found not accountable for their actions due to their illness? This must be some new form of "compassionate libertarianism".

 

I didn't know that not responding to the police allowed them to run you over. I'll keep that in mind next time I visit the US.

 

 

You believe the police need 50% of their budget, but would like to see them be well-trained, well-educated and well paid. So you want them to do more with less. Ah austerity. Wonderful stuff. I mean, it's pure fantasy, but wonderful stuff nonetheless.

 

Apparently you don't understand gravity by your earlier statements. Mentally ill or not he posed a threat to the people around him. Your second statement has no relevance to the threat posed by the offender. Your third statement is a fallacy. Your fourth statement is proof that you did not thoroughly read my statement, or you did not understand it.

He fires the gun into the air. The air.

Maybe some birds are at risk?

(the answer is people)

There were no people around him, except police officers.

Yes I'm well aware of how gravity works thank you. Your argument is that because he fired a gun into the air, there is a possibility that someone could have died from the bullet returning to ground.

My argument is that no one did, and that while police have the right to defend themselves if threatened. They were not being threatened in this situation.

My second statement about mentally ill people not being found responsible for their actions is very much relevant to your statement "He is responsible for the fact that he crossed the line into becoming a threat."

My third statement is rhetorical. Should I rewrite it as a question? "Do you believe that not responding the police entitles the police to run you over?" This is to question your statement of "He is not responding to officers."

As to your budget proposal you write: "I also believe that they need about 50% of their budget under the current system, but I would like to have a police force that has highly educated and trained folks that get paid well, and not undereducated, undertrained, and poorly vetted folks."

From which I can conclude that you think the current system does not induce good quality people to enter the police force. You propose reducing their budget by 50%, but you would like to see a system that has highly educated, highly trained officers who get paid well. So you actually want to pay them more, but also give them more training and require more education to become an officer? Then why propose the 50% budget reduction in the first place?

What I want to see is cops that react, and don't operate under precog like conditions.

Look at the statements made by the police department in question in this article: http://www.ibtimes.com/arizona-officer-rams-car-armed-suspect-mario-valencia-dash-cam-footage-shows-video-1882700(emphasis mine)

  Quote

"It's definitely not standard procedure, but the officer feared that the suspect was going to do some damage," Marana police spokesman Sgt. Chris Warren said, according to Reuters. "It very well could have been a mass casualty kind of thing."

  Quote

"The guy probably is still alive because the officer took the action that he took," Marana Police Chief Terry Rozema told NBC station KVOA."Had he continued to press down the street ... these officers have no choice but to begin firing."

So is the logic here that when police think something bad is going to happen they can do anything they want to prevent what they think is going to happen, from happening?

  On 4/17/2015 at 5:10 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/17/2015 at 2:02 AM, eugene said:

what i mean is it doesn't make sense to pull out the corruption argument out of nowhere and for no reason. is there any evidence of some serious corruption in that particular department where the cop got cleared? or is it just some general spirit of corruption that cops carry with them?

 

Police corruption is widely acknowledged as being an almost universal problem - it is not limited to the United States. It's obviously very difficult to examine police corruption because of the "Blue Wall of Silence". For a more thorough examination of the problem read pp. 596-600 here: http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7125&context=jclc

 

It makes clear sense to raise the corruption issue - these are public servants. You can google arizona corruption and take a look for yourself at the extent to which corruption is pervasive in Arizona police departments.

 

Define serious? How much corruption has to exist before it's considered "serious"? This officer essentially acted as judge and sentencer, and it's extremely fortunate that the individual lived. And yet he was cleared of any wrongdoing very quickly. You can hear the other cops going "jesus christ" in the video, and they're not in a place of worship, so it's a reasonable assumption that they're blaspheming out of shock.

 

There is no doubt that the individual committed several crimes - however the police officer's responsibility is to bring the suspect in for trial. Not to act as judge and executioner (imagine if he'd died good lord we would have an even bigger shit show on our hands).

 

you're getting into tldr mode without any good reason, let's keep it simple.

you alluded that the cop got cleared because there's corruption, can you prove me that this particular cop got cleared because of police corruption or not? of course not and because it's a super publicized and scrutinized event it's also very unlikely.

the cops' duty is also to protect the people around, if there's a maniac with gun roaming around and they haven't been able to stop him with non lethal means they can use lethal ones.

If someone fires a gun into the air then they are immediately putting people in danger and you really do have the right to stop them by any means necessary. Would you rather have him keep firing and kill someone half a mile away?

Don't get me wrong I dislike police officers as much as the next average taxpayer but I think we're trying to crucify the wrong person here.

  On 4/17/2015 at 12:41 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/17/2015 at 5:10 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/17/2015 at 2:02 AM, eugene said:

what i mean is it doesn't make sense to pull out the corruption argument out of nowhere and for no reason. is there any evidence of some serious corruption in that particular department where the cop got cleared? or is it just some general spirit of corruption that cops carry with them?

Police corruption is widely acknowledged as being an almost universal problem - it is not limited to the United States. It's obviously very difficult to examine police corruption because of the "Blue Wall of Silence". For a more thorough examination of the problem read pp. 596-600 here: http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7125&context=jclc

 

It makes clear sense to raise the corruption issue - these are public servants. You can google arizona corruption and take a look for yourself at the extent to which corruption is pervasive in Arizona police departments.

 

Define serious? How much corruption has to exist before it's considered "serious"? This officer essentially acted as judge and sentencer, and it's extremely fortunate that the individual lived. And yet he was cleared of any wrongdoing very quickly. You can hear the other cops going "jesus christ" in the video, and they're not in a place of worship, so it's a reasonable assumption that they're blaspheming out of shock.

 

There is no doubt that the individual committed several crimes - however the police officer's responsibility is to bring the suspect in for trial. Not to act as judge and executioner (imagine if he'd died good lord we would have an even bigger shit show on our hands).

you're getting into tldr mode without any good reason, let's keep it simple.

you alluded that the cop got cleared because there's corruption, can you prove me that this particular cop got cleared because of police corruption or not? of course not and because it's a super publicized and scrutinized event it's also very unlikely.

the cops' duty is also to protect the people around, if there's a maniac with gun roaming around and they haven't been able to stop him with non lethal means they can use lethal ones.

No because of th culture of corruption.

It didn't look like they tried non-lethal means at all though.

does that culture of corruption exist in that department or not? wtf is the point in inventing arguments out of thin air?

Change of topic. A little piece of American pie right here:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/car-repair-shop-welcomes-gun-owners-not-gays/32415468

  On 4/17/2015 at 1:41 PM, eugene said:

does that culture of corruption exist in that department or not? wtf is the point in inventing arguments out of thin air?

Yes it does. It is pervasive across America.

It's difficult to prove because of the culture of corruption. There is little incentive for any working there to expose the corruption.

Nobody is inventing arguments, these are well founded fears, just google Arizona police corruption to get a taste.

New documents show the Rwanda pullout in 1994 genocide was driven by the U.S. , not Belgium.

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB511/

How nice.

  On 4/17/2015 at 8:05 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/17/2015 at 1:41 PM, eugene said:

does that culture of corruption exist in that department or not? wtf is the point in inventing arguments out of thin air?

Yes it does. It is pervasive across America.

 

It's difficult to prove because of the culture of corruption. There is little incentive for any working there to expose the corruption.

 

Nobody is inventing arguments, these are well founded fears, just google Arizona police corruption to get a taste.

 

well we've got it solved then! the cop got cleared because culture of corruption in his department, and not because he was justified in what he was doing. you've heard it here first.

Biscuits & gravy are the best things about the US

export that shit pronto, i'm cluckin badly here

Houston murders up 60% in first quarter of 2015.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/04/05/hold-houston-homicides-up-59-in-first-quarter-of-2015/

Swedish police on holiday do a better job than the NYPD. And no one died!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/watch--swedish-cops-show-up-nypd-with-holiday-heroics-093512689.html?vp=1

  On 4/17/2015 at 11:07 PM, cwmbrancity said:

Biscuits & gravy are the best things about the US

 

export that shit pronto, i'm cluckin badly here

I'd say the Craft Beer Renaissance of the 21st century > biscuits and gravy

  On 4/26/2015 at 3:45 PM, Candiru said:

 

  On 4/17/2015 at 11:07 PM, cwmbrancity said:

Biscuits & gravy are the best things about the US

 

export that shit pronto, i'm cluckin badly here

I'd say the Craft Beer Renaissance of the 21st century > biscuits and gravy

 

been drinking lots of this stuff recently, it's great. http://www.victorybeer.com/

No Baltimore Riots thread?....

Pretty good rioting by rioting standards...

Top 10 airports for firearms seizures, gee the South likes guns? Who knew. Look at Texas numbers, funny if it wasn't so scary. I'm sick of US articles that call this a "post 9/11 world", it's a post 9/11 country. The rest of the world moved on.

https://instagram.com/p/yXzjeml9xB/?taken-by=tsa

I don't know about all y'all, but if I were a muslim living in Texas (or anywhere in the south really) I'd get the hell out before I was subjected to anymore of that famous "southern hospitality".

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/us/garland-texas-shooting-muhammad-cartoons.html

Are you really taking the side of the people who initiated gunfire because some folks drew a cartoon?

Nope, I'm talking bout what's sure to follow.