How does the World view America these days?

  On 1/24/2022 at 9:04 PM, Squee said:

 

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its really sad that the legitimate issue of the mass surveillance state and the huge extent that 5G helps assist with it is being hijacked by absolute dumbells

  On 1/25/2022 at 1:35 AM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

its really sad that the legitimate issue of the mass surveillance state and the huge extent that 5G helps assist with it is being hijacked by absolute dumbells

capital outsmarts the working class in so many ways.  directing and forming countercultural movements such as this is a way for them to convert legitimate qualms of the working class into nothing but circus freak shows to laugh at and draw cultural differences between groups of people.  they do NOT want a genuine working class movement with genuine critiques and legitimate theoretical frameworks linking these disparate issues together, along with a game plan for moving forward and defeating our class enemies.  for those types of movements, they will stop at nothing, even concentrated and distributed violence, to oppress us into submission.  we saw a sneak peak in the US during the BLM protests.  we will see more around the world as climate change gets worse and heightens the consequences of the contradictions of capital and class conflict.

  On 1/24/2022 at 6:17 PM, ignatius said:

i guess ya can't find a better job in wisconsin w/o consent of your employer

 

 

 

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I have mixed feelings about this. on the one hand the employer was irresponsible and self-entitled for not doing what was well within its power to do to retain and maintain a happy workforce. on the other hand, a mass of people leaving like that can jeopardise care for people who might desperately need it. if this were some other profession where lives weren't at stake then it'd be more clearcut and less of an issue, but I think in spite of the employer's shittiness, there could be reasonable grounds for temporarily stopping people from leaving if it directly risks patient lives. without knowing more specific details it's hard to say for sure.

also I have an inherent distrust of the online antiwork/Great Resignation crowd purely because it's a mass of unaccountable anonymous posters and bandwagoners. antiwork in particular stinks to me, it's full of people rushing to post their little huffy emails and text exchanges with their bosses for attention and karma. this is in spite of being strongly pro-labour, personally.

  On 1/25/2022 at 2:25 AM, usagi said:

I have mixed feelings about this. on the one hand the employer was irresponsible and self-entitled for not doing what was well within its power to do to retain and maintain a happy workforce. on the other hand, a mass of people leaving like that can jeopardise care for people who might desperately need it. if this were some other profession where lives weren't at stake then it'd be more clearcut and less of an issue, but I think in spite of the employer's shittiness, there could be reasonable grounds for temporarily stopping people from leaving if it directly risks patient lives. without knowing more specific details it's hard to say for sure.

also I have an inherent distrust of the online antiwork/Great Resignation crowd purely because it's a mass of unaccountable anonymous posters and bandwagoners. antiwork in particular stinks to me, it's full of people rushing to post their little huffy emails and text exchanges with their bosses for attention and karma. this is in spite of being strongly pro-labour, personally.

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the owning class puts the working class into conditions where their only option is to leave.  when patients are harmed as a result of doctors and nurses quitting over horrible working conditions, caused directly by policy decisions made by the owning class, who is to blame? to me, the answer is clear

antiwork is a bunch of liberals they have no teeth and the anarcho-bidenists who run the sub should go fuck themselves for absolutely failing to serve their community of workers in the sub

  On 1/25/2022 at 2:25 AM, usagi said:

I have mixed feelings about this. on the one hand the employer was irresponsible and self-entitled for not doing what was well within its power to do to retain and maintain a happy workforce. on the other hand, a mass of people leaving like that can jeopardise care for people who might desperately need it. if this were some other profession where lives weren't at stake then it'd be more clearcut and less of an issue, but I think in spite of the employer's shittiness, there could be reasonable grounds for temporarily stopping people from leaving if it directly risks patient lives. without knowing more specific details it's hard to say for sure.

also I have an inherent distrust of the online antiwork/Great Resignation crowd purely because it's a mass of unaccountable anonymous posters and bandwagoners. antiwork in particular stinks to me, it's full of people rushing to post their little huffy emails and text exchanges with their bosses for attention and karma. this is in spite of being strongly pro-labour, personally.

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can't have it both ways.. either the free market is for everyone or no one. even though we all know it's not really a free market is it.. 

7 workers isn't really a "mass of people".  if the hospital can't figure out how to retain its workers it's on them.. they're free to transfer the patients to other hospitals if they can't provide care.  isn't that the free market? 

it's long overdue for power to shift to workers from employers/businesses. 

there's some stuff in the anti work subreddit that is obviously fake though. anyway.. this is how the fight happens and it's a longterm thing and people need to wake up to the idea of work not being everything. what's that saying.. americans live to work and other countries work to live. 

  On 1/25/2022 at 2:41 AM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

the anarcho-bidenists who run the sub should go fuck themselves for absolutely failing to serve their community of workers in the sub

Sigh, I know I'm going to regret this, but how do you think the "anarcho-bidenists" who "run" /rantiwork should serve their community of workers in the subreddit?

Thankfully, the judge dismissed the temporary injunction:

https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-care-staff-who-resigned

h

  On 1/25/2022 at 3:02 AM, chenGOD said:

Sigh, I know I'm going to regret this, but how do you think the "anarcho-bidenists" who "run" /rantiwork should serve their community of workers in the subreddit?

anarcho-bidenists is a joke meaning liberals who larp as anarchists.  anyway they should serve their community by actually educating them with proper class consciousness and suggesting solutions more intelligent than this bullshit "antiwork" mentality.  socialism and communism requires work.  life requires work.  life IS work.  we are working machines, working to live. 

  On 1/25/2022 at 3:16 AM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

anarcho-bidenists is a joke meaning liberals who larp as anarchists.  anyway they should serve their community by actually educating them with proper class consciousness and suggesting solutions more intelligent than this bullshit "antiwork" mentality.  socialism and communism requires work.  life requires work.  life IS work.  we are working machines, working to live. 

Isn't that what r/communism, r/Marxism, and r/socialism are for? Given your hilarious joke, why would you expect that particular subreddit to educate people about communism?

  On 1/25/2022 at 3:16 AM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

anarcho-bidenists is a joke meaning liberals who larp as anarchists.  anyway they should serve their community by actually educating them with proper class consciousness and suggesting solutions more intelligent than this bullshit "antiwork" mentality.  socialism and communism requires work.  life requires work.  life IS work.  we are working machines, working to live. 

can't do the work of anarchism if you're busy making sandwiches at subway w/your kid strapped to your chest. 

  On 1/25/2022 at 3:23 AM, chenGOD said:

Isn't that what r/communism, r/Marxism, and r/socialism are for? Given your hilarious joke, why would you expect that particular subreddit to educate people about communism?

I always oppose non-communist "leftists" from the left when they oppose communism and hence make themselves part of the right.

  On 1/25/2022 at 3:45 AM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

I always oppose non-communist "leftists" from the left when they oppose communism and hence make themselves part of the right.

  On 1/25/2022 at 3:45 AM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

I always oppose non-communist "leftists" from the left when they oppose communism and hence make themselves part of the right.

Yeah what could possibly go wrong from extremist views.

  On 1/25/2022 at 2:54 AM, ignatius said:

can't have it both ways.. either the free market is for everyone or no one. even though we all know it's not really a free market is it.. 

7 workers isn't really a "mass of people".  if the hospital can't figure out how to retain its workers it's on them.. they're free to transfer the patients to other hospitals if they can't provide care.  isn't that the free market? 

it's long overdue for power to shift to workers from employers/businesses. 

there's some stuff in the anti work subreddit that is obviously fake though. anyway.. this is how the fight happens and it's a longterm thing and people need to wake up to the idea of work not being everything. what's that saying.. americans live to work and other countries work to live. 

 

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yes, you can't have it both ways. as in, you can't rely on the free market argument to amorally justify leaving your position without care for the patients who might suffer as a consequence, while at the same time decrying the free market for how it exploits labour. which is the whole point of this 'movement' or whatever we're calling it. there's a fundamental hole in that argument right there.

either side fully with the free market and don't complain when you get shit wages and shit working conditions as a natural consequence of that unregulated free market, OR demand something better than that which aims to have good pay/working conditions, good employee/employer relations and a healthy/balanced sense of responsibility for one's work (particularly in a healthcare context where people's lives are at stake) all into the bargain. I'm all for fixing the power imbalance in favour of workers but people need to aim higher. these antiwork types are massively reducing all the complex parts of that problem down to just "I don't like my job" or "I don't like working".

also, you know that 7 workers in a squeezed healthcare environment is a huge difference, not inconsequential. I'd like to hear someone make this argument in a clinic hit hard by covid in a poorer quarter of the world.

this is just like the student debt cancellation argument to me btw. a problem which I want to see fixed at its roots but which I take issue with people's shortsightedness on, and with their dumb online herd-driven fixation on low-hanging fruit which doesn't actually solve anything long-term.

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:16 AM, usagi said:

this is just like the student debt cancellation argument to me btw. a problem which I want to see fixed at its roots but which I take issue with people's shortsightedness on, and with their dumb online herd-driven fixation on low-hanging fruit which doesn't actually solve anything long-term.

so basically you want to maintain deeper debt induced wage slavery for workers who want to advance to higher paying jobs or become smarter?  how about solve it short-term and long-term through debt cancellation and universal education, seems kind of simple and obvious

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:04 AM, chenGOD said:

Yeah what could possibly go wrong from extremist views.

don't know what could go more wrong than almost 1 million people dead from a preventable pandemic being manipulated for economic gains in the US

be quiet, grownups are talking.

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:06 AM, usagi said:

yes, you can't have it both ways. as in, you can't rely on the free market argument to amorally justify leaving your position without care for the patients who might suffer as a consequence, while at the same time decrying the free market for how it exploits labour. which is the whole point of this 'movement' or whatever we're calling it. there's a fundamental hole in that argument right there.

either side fully with the free market and don't complain when you get shit wages and shit working conditions as a natural consequence of that unregulated free market, OR demand something better than which  aims to have good pay/working conditions, good employee/employer relations and a healthy/balanced sense of responsibility for one's work (particularly in a healthcare context where people's lives are at stake) all into the bargain. I'm all for fixing the power imbalance in favour of workers but people need to aim higher. these antiwork types are just massively reducing all the complex parts of that problem down to just "I don't like my job" or "I don't like working".

also, you know that 7 workers in a squeezed healthcare environment is a huge difference, not inconsequential. I'd like to hear someone make this argument in a clinic hit hard by covid in a poorer quarter of the world.

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I mean the clinic had the chance to respond by offering the 7 workers the same deal (they knew about the employment offers on December 21) but instead chose profits over patients. Apparently the 7 workers are going to a clinic that offers the same level of care and is about 10km away. So it's not like they're moving to a different state.

That's what these workers did - they asked for better working conditions and all that, and the company refused. Pretty hard to feel sorry for the original clinic.

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:22 AM, usagi said:

be quiet, grownups are talking.

"shut up, get back to work, and keep paying your student debt"

signed, mister adult

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:06 AM, usagi said:

yes, you can't have it both ways. as in, you can't rely on the free market argument to amorally justify leaving your position without care for the patients who might suffer as a consequence, while at the same time decrying the free market for how it exploits labour. which is the whole point of this 'movement' or whatever we're calling it. there's a fundamental hole in that argument right there.

either side fully with the free market and don't complain when you get shit wages and shit working conditions as a natural consequence of that unregulated free market, OR demand something better than that which aims to have good pay/working conditions, good employee/employer relations and a healthy/balanced sense of responsibility for one's work (particularly in a healthcare context where people's lives are at stake) all into the bargain. I'm all for fixing the power imbalance in favour of workers but people need to aim higher. these antiwork types are massively reducing all the complex parts of that problem down to just "I don't like my job" or "I don't like working".

also, you know that 7 workers in a squeezed healthcare environment is a huge difference, not inconsequential. I'd like to hear someone make this argument in a clinic hit hard by covid in a poorer quarter of the world.

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this is exactly how employers get people over a barrel. "think of your patients" 

"think of the customers who need sandwiches!"

"I'm going to need you to work double overtime tonight while i stay home and have dinner with my family"

how far do you want to go w/it? "you have patients.. you can't leave until they recover or die... never mind that we treat you like shit and won't let you form a union and can fire you at anytime we please.. but you can't quit"

split the moral hair fibers all you want. it's bullshit. there's other nurses. if the hospital can't care for X amount of patients because of staff issues then they should go to other hospitals"

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:16 AM, usagi said:

this is just like the student debt cancellation argument to me btw. a problem which I want to see fixed at its roots but which I take issue with people's shortsightedness on, and with their dumb online herd-driven fixation on low-hanging fruit which doesn't actually solve anything long-term.

The US can certainly do both though. Biden's administration is on the path to at least begin that: https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/whats-the-current-state-of-student-loan-forgiveness (pausing interest payments is huge - the interest payments on those student loans are ridiculous).

Remains to be seen what the policy will be on publicly-funded post-secondary in terms of fees moving forward.

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:23 AM, chenGOD said:

I mean the clinic had the chance to respond by offering the 7 workers the same deal (they knew about the employment offers on December 21) but instead chose profits over patients. Apparently the 7 workers are going to a clinic that offers the same level of care and is about 10km away. So it's not like they're moving to a different state.

That's what these workers did - they asked for better working conditions and all that, and the company refused. Pretty hard to feel sorry for the original clinic.

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alright then, that's that one case. as I said, without knowing more specific details I wasn't coming down on one side or the other in that specific case, I was just expressing a concern about the patients (i.e. the purpose of the work, what is important to society) in the spat between employee and employer. if no lives are lost in the shuffle, I'm not bothered that the workers left and the injunction was dismissed.

but do you get what I am driving at behind all this? the problem is much bigger than anything that is currently being addressed or proposed. work is fundamental to the functioning of society, and the purpose of it, what it serves for society, should not be trampled on in a rush for shortsighted changes.

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:30 AM, usagi said:

but do you get what I am driving at behind all this? the problem is much bigger than anything that is currently being addressed or proposed. work is fundamental to the functioning of society, and the purpose of it, what it serves for society, should not be trampled on in a rush for shortsighted changes.

who says they're short sighted? this is maybe just the first step. 

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:33 AM, ignatius said:

who says they're short sighted? this is maybe just the first step. 

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Needs more guillotine

  On 1/25/2022 at 4:28 AM, ignatius said:

this is exactly how employers get people over a barrel. "think of your patients" 

"think of the customers who need sandwiches!"

"I'm going to need you to work double overtime tonight while i stay home and have dinner with my family"

how far do you want to go w/it? "you have patients.. you can't leave until they recover or die... never mind that we treat you like shit and won't let you form a union and can fire you at anytime we please.. but you can't quit"

split the moral hair fibers all you want. it's bullshit. there's other nurses. if the hospital can't care for X amount of patients because of staff issues then they should go to other hospitals"

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there is a huge difference between patients in hospital beds and bloody sandwiches. come on. the onus is on the individual to understand the impact that quitting their job makes in a macro sense, between something that has minimal impact on society (making sandwiches) versus something far more crucial (healthcare). not all situations demand the same kind of action.

look, I recognise that conditions in the US are uniquely shitty and different and maybe I am speaking from a position of relative privilege in Australia. and you gotta start somewhere I guess. but I am determined not to lose balance on these topics, which is what always happens in herd-driven situations. people aren't looking at the problem from enough different perspectives or playing devil's advocate enough to test the boundaries of their proposed solution, which makes for a weak solution.