California Water Crisis

  On 3/28/2015 at 12:26 AM, Nebraska said:

 

  On 3/27/2015 at 5:40 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Why are you guys not desalinating ocean water?

 

because we contaminated it

 

You're not citing that website as a credible source are you?

Only asking because it's linking me to fluoride conspiracy sites and other similar things.

such as:

• Ukraine Negotiates Creating New Neo-Nazi Division In Army, 1,000 U.S. Soldiers In Ground Operations In Eastern Europe
• Week in Review: US Guiding Airstrikes against Syrian Government and Clinton Foundation’s Ties to Ukrainian Oligarch

stepheng: sorry. how about this one then?

also leo di caprio knows a thing or two about this *ish

lol oh noes.

Leo said so. We're doomed!

No more avocados from California... They are so much more buttery and delicious than the Mexican/Peruvian ones.

I almost took a bath with a toaster after this revelation :(

Texas has been dealing with a pretty bad drought in the last few years, 2011 was especially bad. I doubt many of our lakes (most are reservoirs) will ever get back to normal levels.

Population growth has been the main issue, with exploding urban growth. Besides Houston (which is actually fairly inland) we don't have as many coastal cities as Cali. The state is actually tackling it and many parts of the state have been strict on conservation. Rainfall has been good lately here in Central TX.

Hopefully it doesn't get as ugly but it's nonetheless serious. So much of California seems delusional and unaware. I was visiting a friend last August and she said "yeah nothing looks nice right because of the drought as you can tell, they've been fining people for watering" as we drove past Beverly HIlls. I saw maybe one dry spot, it greener than anything in Texas. Of course in Exposition Park, a mostly Latino and black neighborhood, it was pretty dry. In both LA and Austin you can tell where the money is based on how green the lawns are. Those with enough money are unfettered by water restrictions.

It's not the population it's the agriculture. That shit is obscenely wasteful in CA, which is basically one of the worst places in the world to grow shit.

yeah I think this drought is a sign on climate change. I found this article from the Union of Concerned Scientists at [url="http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/impacts/causes-of-drought-climate-change-connection.html#.VRe9D-7F-GB%5B/url%5D

Key excerpt from the article below. Btw where is the HTML editor?? I wanted to add a simple link, but I ended up pasting the whole url.

"Climate change affects a variety of factors associated with drought

When considering the relationship of drought to climate change, it is important to make the distinction between weather and climate. Weather is a description of atmospheric conditions over a short period of time, while climate is how the atmosphere behaves over relatively long periods of time.

Individual drought periods can be understood as discrete weather events. Climate changes occur over longer periods and can be observed as changes in the patterns of weather events. For instance, as temperatures have warmed over the past century, the prevalence and duration of drought has increased in the American West [2].

Global climate change affects a variety of factors associated with drought. There is high confidence that increased temperatures will lead to more precipitation falling as rain rather than snow, earlier snow melt, and increased evaporation and transpiration. Thus the risk of hydrological and agricultural drought increases as temperatures rise.

Much of the Mountain West has experienced declines in spring snowpack, especially since mid-century [3]. These declines are related to a reduction in precipitation falling as snow (with more falling as rain), and a shift in timing of snowmelt. Earlier snowmelt, associated with warmer temperatures, can lead to water supply being increasingly out of phase with water demands.

While there is some variability in the models for western North America as a whole, climate models unanimously project increased drought in the American Southwest. The Southwest is considered one of the more sensitive regions in the world for increased risk of drought caused by climate change [4]. "

  On 3/27/2015 at 10:02 AM, Deer said:

sorry for my ignorance but whats causing this? just extreme heat? are these signs of climate change? if so why is everyone ignoring it as evidence?

Its terrible, but this is a global issue- check out truthordrought.com

So yes, plant based agriculture uses a lot of water, but much of the grain is then used to feed livestock. The amount of beef the US eats is just not sustainable.

Quite a few people I spoke to through California when I went in September were mentioning how bad it was getting but I had no idea of the scale.

the ridiculous part about this issue is in spite of all of the facts and cold hard truth, some americans are hard wired with blinders on to think that making sacrifices or lifestyle changes for the greater good and overall common sense is some communist gay godless liberal plot to destroy america. its like the unsustainable energy issue. nobodys gonna tell us what we can or cant eat or drive. fuck it. let it burn. i heard jerry brown justifying water use in california for fracking!

  On 3/29/2015 at 5:15 PM, Kingdom of Heaven said:

the ridiculous part about this issue is in spite of all of the facts and cold hard truth, some americans are hard wired with blinders on to think that making sacrifices or lifestyle changes for the greater good and overall common sense is some communist gay godless liberal plot to destroy america. its like the unsustainable energy issue. nobodys gonna tell us what we can or cant eat or drive. fuck it. let it burn. i heard jerry brown justifying water use in california for fracking!

  On 3/29/2015 at 12:46 PM, rixxx said:

Its terrible, but this is a global issue- check out truthordrought.com

 

 

So yes, plant based agriculture uses a lot of water, but much of the grain is then used to feed livestock. The amount of beef the US eats is just not sustainable.

You're not even supposed to feed grain to livestock so...

Also this,

http://rt.com/usa/244937-us-marijuana-cultivation-water/

TLDR: Marijuana cultivation contributes considerably to drought in California.

Yes..and no.. Its true that livestock aren't suited to grains however, we have bred cattle that produce way more milk than they would evolutionary produce. Beef wise, totally agree, but even getting enough water to grow grass would be really bad for the water reserves. There are more 'hardy' breeds of cattle or even types of animal that are way more efficient at turning forage into protein (Goat, many breeds of sheep etc) but beef is seen as the ultimate western diet. Cattle production is only increasing with the rise in the middle classes in both China and, most surprisingly India.

  On 3/29/2015 at 5:15 PM, Kingdom of Heaven said:

the ridiculous part about this issue is in spite of all of the facts and cold hard truth, some americans are hard wired with blinders on to think that making sacrifices or lifestyle changes for the greater good and overall common sense is some communist gay godless liberal plot to destroy america. its like the unsustainable energy issue. nobodys gonna tell us what we can or cant eat or drive. fuck it. let it burn. i heard jerry brown justifying water use in california for fracking!

YES. Fuck, America you need to get your head out of the cold war paranoia and face up to reality, this is really crazy.

Just shower less. Pheromones are in.

it is a desert. its all man made. look at old 20th century pics of california. dirt dirt and more dirt

  On 3/27/2015 at 4:43 AM, Nebraska said:

if something hasn't happened by september at the latest, you can expect things to get pretty steamy here

gov. brown issues statewide mandatory water reduction to:

-Replace 50 million square feet of lawns throughout the state with drought tolerant landscaping in partnership with local governments;

-Direct the creation of a temporary, statewide consumer rebate program to replace old appliances with more water and energy efficient models;

-Require campuses, golf courses, cemeteries and other large landscapes to make significant cuts in water use; and

-Prohibit new homes and developments from irrigating with potable water unless water-efficient drip irrigation systems are used, and ban watering of ornamental grass on public street medians.

http://gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=18910

  On 3/27/2015 at 5:40 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

Why are you guys not desalinating ocean water?

my guess is the environmentalists trying to save the ocean. even though this is how a large portion of the world gets its water. i heard there were something like 5 desalination plants that were supposed to start construction that are on hold..? ill try to dig something up about it. im in california and i live near folsom lake. its really really low.

edit: http://ecowatch.com/2015/03/10/drought-california-desalination-plant/

Unless the desalination plant is getting its energy from a renewable resource (wind, solar, etc) then it's only going to help hasten the global warming problem. The same problem that this drought likely stems.

It's not a way to take care of the problem of ground water pumping which is a global issue. The problem is that we're using too much water in general and should curtail our habits to reach equilibrium.

The reason desalination is a bad idea in the US, as I see it, is this: For energy rich, water-poor countries, desalination can be a great idea. That is the case, for instance, in Saudi Arabia. For the US, on the other hand, it is (at the moment) a very lackluster "solution" to a water shortage crisis. Consider that the US's domestic energy production will continue to rely heavily on hydraulic fracking for the forseeable future. It takes upwards of 3 million gallons of water to frack a particular site once, resulting in a gain in natural gas. If we desalinate coastal waters to get more potable water, we will presumably be relying upon domestic energy sources. Our domestic energy is coming, at least partially, from fracking sites, often near large natural groundwater aquifers. We are using water to produce energy to desalinate water. See how this would work out? If we can buy cheap foreign petro-energy, then we wouldn't be relying on water, but why not just buy the water direct?

Opposed to this is the much simpler plan of water conservation. The environment desalinates water for us. Most of the US is a temperate zone and gets regular rainfall. Catching and utilizing as much of that water as possible, where nature has done the hard work for us, is a smart solution. Pouring energy into a program to get potable water, by way of domestic energy that risks not only over-using our current water supply, but contaminating the very aquifers we rely on, is a backwards plan. Not to mention the more direct environmental effects of coastal desalination in the first place: excess salt which is dumped back into the ocean, creating dead zones, economically harming the fishing industry and more importantly, destroying the ocean and making future desalination that much more cost prohibitive. I don't know the nitty-gritty behind the cutting edge desalination techinques -perhaps in the future it will be far more energy efficient, and become necessary. For now, I think that plan should be shelved indefinitely.

We could also stop shitting in our drinking water. That would help.

Some good links in this thread, made me think of a documentary I saw a couple of years ago at a BFI festival. Chasing Water is about how the Colorado River has changed over the years and no longer flows into the sea. Echoes some of the comments raised in the latter part of this thread about water saving measures.

https://vimeo.com/52955892

  On 4/2/2015 at 4:50 AM, luke viia said:

The reason desalination is a bad idea in the US, as I see it, is this: For energy rich, water-poor countries, desalination can be a great idea. That is the case, for instance, in Saudi Arabia. For the US, on the other hand, it is (at the moment) a very lackluster "solution" to a water shortage crisis. Consider that the US's domestic energy production will continue to rely heavily on hydraulic fracking for the forseeable future. It takes upwards of 3 million gallons of water to frack a particular site once, resulting in a gain in natural gas. If we desalinate coastal waters to get more potable water, we will presumably be relying upon domestic energy sources. Our domestic energy is coming, at least partially, from fracking sites, often near large natural groundwater aquifers. We are using water to produce energy to desalinate water. See how this would work out? If we can buy cheap foreign petro-energy, then we wouldn't be relying on water, but why not just buy the water direct?

 

Opposed to this is the much simpler plan of water conservation. The environment desalinates water for us. Most of the US is a temperate zone and gets regular rainfall. Catching and utilizing as much of that water as possible, where nature has done the hard work for us, is a smart solution. Pouring energy into a program to get potable water, by way of domestic energy that risks not only over-using our current water supply, but contaminating the very aquifers we rely on, is a backwards plan. Not to mention the more direct environmental effects of coastal desalination in the first place: excess salt which is dumped back into the ocean, creating dead zones, economically harming the fishing industry and more importantly, destroying the ocean and making future desalination that much more cost prohibitive. I don't know the nitty-gritty behind the cutting edge desalination techinques -perhaps in the future it will be far more energy efficient, and become necessary. For now, I think that plan should be shelved indefinitely.

You always seem pretty knowledgeable about environmentally related topics..

Probably a really really dumb question, is there anything near the size of Cheow Lan Lake (Khao Sok National Park) in Thailand? Would a large project like that work anywhere in the US?

They essentially built multiple dams and turned a mountain range into a reservoir, 200M deep in some places... The whole south of the country uses it during drought...

Edit: I know man made reservoirs are nothing new. Just not sure why it works so well for Thailand and why something similar wouldn't work in the US particularly Cali.

666 gallons of H₂O to produce a lb of butter?

  On 4/2/2015 at 4:50 AM, luke viia said:

desalination ... a very lackluster "solution"

I see what you did there

  On 4/2/2015 at 6:12 AM, ambermonk said:

666 gallons of H₂O to produce a lb of butter?

Dairy cows have to be hydrated to stay alive.