Encoding a piece of music a thousand times over

[youtubehd]BKE_BMevzSw[/youtubehd]

I just uploaded a video of an experiment I did a while ago. Always wondered what it would sound like if you lossly encoded a piece of music again and again, and maybe anyone here have thought the same thing?

The result isn't exactly mindblowing, but still a bit interesting I think.

  Quote

 

What does it sound like when you re-encode a piece of music a thousand times in a lossy format? Let's try, using the highest possible quality of the (Ogg) Vorbis codec.

Different codecs and different settings give different results.
Replaygain was used to keep the volume the same.

That's awesome man (and sounds great!) - I've actually wondered what'd happen if you put a lossy audio through the same audio codec again and again, I didn't know if'd go the same way that jpg does (i.e gets worse and worse) or if'd just lose the stuff first time round and not lose further quality - seems like its the former. Good work sir !

Here's a youtube 'version' of your project -

In the OP. It's funny how the bass doesn't also drop away in place of reinforced odd artifacts but becomes reinforced, if now overdriven.

  On 7/15/2015 at 12:09 AM, mcbpete said:

That's awesome man (and sounds great!) - I've actually wondered what'd happen if you put a lossy audio through the same audio codec again and again, I didn't know if'd go the same way that jpg does (i.e gets worse and worse) or if'd just lose the stuff first time round and not lose further quality - seems like its the former. Good work sir !

 

Here's a youtube 'version' of your project -

 

it's cool how it ends up sounding like a lofi recording of water being moved around in a shallow pool of water.

i thought dis was gonna be about aaron funk

That was pretty cool! Would like to hear one with a continuous change.

  On 7/15/2015 at 12:09 AM, mcbpete said:

That's awesome man (and sounds great!) - I've actually wondered what'd happen if you put a lossy audio through the same audio codec again and again, I didn't know if'd go the same way that jpg does (i.e gets worse and worse) or if'd just lose the stuff first time round and not lose further quality - seems like its the former. Good work sir !

 

Here's a youtube 'version' of your project -

 

Cool video! But what would be the point of uploading it to youtube a thousand times and ripping it? I'm pretty sure that the MP4 encoding that youtube does isn't very different from the one he does himself, so he could just do it locally instead. That would save a bunch of hassle I imagine... Anyway that looked and sounded cool.

I tried a bunch of settings using both Ogg Vorbis and MP3, and I found it interesting that using the hightest quality VBR MP3 encoding (using lame) then it still sounded pretty good (like a ~96kbps MP3 maybe?), compared to what happens in the video when you use highest quality Ogg Vorbis. Definately not saying that MP3 is a better codec though :)

ye but what about if you rip soundcloud tracks and then re-encode them 320

sweet. Yeah if you wanna recreate this with vsts instead of 1000 encodings (how long did this take you O.o), use convoluter and corkscrew here: http://anarchysoundsoftware.co.uk/anarchysoundsoftware/?page_id=7

Basically it mess up the spectral info with convoluter, and screw with the pitch in weird ways with corkscrew. You get VERY similar artifacts when used in conjunction. Also many other different sounds. You have to play with it for a like 5 minutes. The depth in the convoluter needs to be low. I've made some cool high hat sounds with the depth turned up too.

Great! Thanks for sharing that. For years I've imagined utilizing mp3 artifacts to make a track and for some reason never followed through with it. It's a testament to my powers of procrastination. But this experiment rekindles my interest once again.

  On 7/15/2015 at 1:07 AM, Brisbot said:

sweet. Yeah if you wanna recreate this with vsts instead of 1000 encodings (how long did this take you O.o), use convoluter and corkscrew here: http://anarchysoundsoftware.co.uk/anarchysoundsoftware/?page_id=7

 

Basically it mess up the spectral info with convoluter, and screw with the pitch in weird ways with corkscrew. You get VERY similar artifacts when used in conjunction. Also many other different sounds. You have to play with it for a like 5 minutes. The depth in the convoluter needs to be low. I've made some cool high hat sounds with the depth turned up too.

oh yes, I remember using convoluter (and another one called specmonkyage or something?) way back in 2002, a lot of my tracks from that time were super fucked up with spectral blurring/distortion effects. It got old quickly though :P

OP if you're not familiar with Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room' then you definitely need to check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jU9mJbJsQ8

I like how this effect could be used to great effect, both subtly and in the extreme. I like the rippling, shimmering effect in the higher frequencies.

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:15 AM, Goiter Sanchez said:

OP if you're not familiar with Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room' then you definitely need to check it out!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jU9mJbJsQ8

wow, that gets pretty trippy after about 31 minutes, much nicer than the digital artefacts.

Yah, this is pretty cool, mang. I used to experiment with such things, and a lot of cool effects could be gotten intentionally, especially with the warbly encoders from the late 90's. Is that tech even available anymore?! Using low quality mp3 encoding is like a poor man's spectral effects.

There is a certain "non-experimental" type effect that makes tracks sound phatter. I noticed the phenomenon with big beat tracks (Fatboy Slim, etc.) and jungle, where the boxiness and pop of the amen would be more pronounced after a track was encoded, and the track would just rock a lot harder. I discovered this from 128 kbps and lower mp3s downloaded back in the day, and then after hearing a high quality rip, the higher frequencies- "airiness"- would actually take away the phatness.

From this I learnt of the importance of controlling frequency ranges to achieve sonic effects-- basically the point is that we don't need piercing highs and sub bass in every track, even the new era of unlimited DAW power makes it tempting.

  On 7/15/2015 at 4:28 AM, modey said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 1:07 AM, Brisbot said:

sweet. Yeah if you wanna recreate this with vsts instead of 1000 encodings (how long did this take you O.o), use convoluter and corkscrew here: http://anarchysoundsoftware.co.uk/anarchysoundsoftware/?page_id=7

 

Basically it mess up the spectral info with convoluter, and screw with the pitch in weird ways with corkscrew. You get VERY similar artifacts when used in conjunction. Also many other different sounds. You have to play with it for a like 5 minutes. The depth in the convoluter needs to be low. I've made some cool high hat sounds with the depth turned up too.

oh yes, I remember using convoluter (and another one called specmonkyage or something?) way back in 2002, a lot of my tracks from that time were super fucked up with spectral blurring/distortion effects. It got old quickly though :P

 

Yeah those vsts are very old. I don't use them much either, but they still stand out to me for some reason. When I heard Parsifal's track I immediately thought of that combination. Weird.

If I use them, I use them very lightly. It's always nice to have constant moving in a sound and there are a million ways to produce that.

  Quote

 

 

From this I learnt of the importance of controlling frequency ranges to achieve sonic effects-- basically the point is that we don't need piercing highs and sub bass in every track, even the new era of unlimited DAW power makes it tempting.

I kind of wish the sub bass thing would go away somewhat. It's not that sub bass is bad, but soooo many tracks and producers become fixated on bass when it's an option. For instance, all of Aphex's new stuff is at least somewhat fixated on sub-bass to bass, and there's a certain charm to his older stuff that big bass actually subtracts from. Don't get me wrong, Syro was awesome.

The best way to describe it is that fixation on bass CONSTRAINS what you make. I don't think we'll ever hear all of that mid-range interesting percussion on Drukqs/Come to Daddy/ Richard D. James album from him on any newer releases.

Though there is one comment from him that makes me bite my tongue on that one. He said recentlyish that he believes 12 tet mid-range is a bit boring, and thinks that the reason newer producers are so focused on bass now is that they make 12 tet, and 12 tet mid-range focus has the potential to sound lame. Which means we might hear newer microtonal mid-range stuff. I might have mis-remembered that a bit.

  On 7/15/2015 at 1:07 AM, Brisbot said:

sweet. Yeah if you wanna recreate this with vsts instead of 1000 encodings (how long did this take you O.o), use convoluter and corkscrew here: http://anarchysoundsoftware.co.uk/anarchysoundsoftware/?page_id=7

I didn't do this as an effect to use in music, I just wanted to see what happens if you do repeated encodings with a lossy codec. And I didn't do it manually, I just wrote a little program that takes a wav, encodes it (to a new file name), decodes that resulting file back to a wav, then encodes that one etc.

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:15 AM, Goiter Sanchez said:

OP if you're not familiar with Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room' then you definitely need to check it out!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jU9mJbJsQ8

Maybe I was vaguely aware of it (now that I know of it I can't tell!) but it is much more interesting (and time consuming!) than my little ditty.

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:54 AM, delet... said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:15 AM, Goiter Sanchez said:

OP if you're not familiar with Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room' then you definitely need to check it out!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jU9mJbJsQ8

 

 

wow, that gets pretty trippy after about 31 minutes, much nicer than the digital artefacts.

 

*spam*

This is what inspired me to make this album back in '02, same process but uneven lengths of re-amping in order to catch and build up little bits of audio grit at the beginning and end of each repetition.

https://salaamhelicoid.bandcamp.com/album/archive-i-a-shining-example-of-goat-death-double-slow-morse-code

*spam*

Nice work op!

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:54 AM, delet... said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:15 AM, Goiter Sanchez said:

OP if you're not familiar with Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room' then you definitely need to check it out!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jU9mJbJsQ8

 

 

wow, that gets pretty trippy after about 31 minutes, much nicer than the digital artefacts.

 

Best to hear this all in one sitting. It's actually very listenable with tons of variety throughout

  Quote

 

 

I didn't do this as an effect to use in music, I just wanted to see what happens if you do repeated encodings with a lossy codec. And I didn't do it manually, I just wrote a little program that takes a wav, encodes it (to a new file name), decodes that resulting file back to a wav, then encodes that one etc.

Oh I know, I saw that other video a while back and knew what to expect. As you said the result isn't so surprising, but it's an interesting way to make sound still.

  On 7/15/2015 at 12:35 AM, Ragnar said:

i thought dis was gonna be about aaron funk

confirmed he does this ?

i remember listening to last step (cant remember what but i think first album or so?) and thinking how it some of it sounded super compressed and low quality mp3 like.

wasn't sure at the time if it was a weird effect or literally just running things and getting them sounding digital and low quality.

cant even remember what songs had this :|

This decade's Disintegration Loops.

haha, Disintegration MP3s

Been done:

http://www.discogs.com/Yasunao-Tone-MP3-Deviations-67/release/3157913

  On 7/21/2015 at 11:16 AM, hello spiral said:

Been done:

 

 

 

http://www.discogs.com/Yasunao-Tone-MP3-Deviations-67/release/3157913

Well damn...

Markus Mehr does similar kinds of stuff as well, but I don't know if he's ever done this sort of thing before.