Entering a music partnership, advice needed

a friend of mine who is an established player in the Sydney hiphop/dj/producer scene has approached me with an offer to enter into a partnership. this basically involves me investing an upfront amount that allows him to get some space away from just working (dj gigs, touring, etc) and focus just on studio time and making music. this is a new project of his under a new alias with a new direction. the idea is to strike it bigger than his past work, which while not insubstantial, isn't super big either. I get my initial investment back plus 20% of everything that's made.

 

this guy is a friend. I met him at my old local when he was DJing there, I've hung out with him, been to his gigs, and we listened to Syro together in his studio while eating post-pissup doner kebabs. this, combined with the fact that he's older, more sensible and already a known act, has warmed me up to the idea. he's pretty motivated and inspired right now to get this going. a 2-year plan has been drawn up and a draft contract has been sent to me for my perusal. right now I'm pretty keen myself as I'm excited at the prospect of being involved in the music industry and what other opportunities that may open up (manager-type shit, which I've been told I can be as involved or as uninvolved in as I like).

 

the only worry I've got is that the initial investment amount is large and the music industry being as mercurial as it is, success is never guaranteed. also musically I'd like to help push the tunes into more experimental territory, which is something we've discussed and are keen on. but I wonder if that isn't going to come at the cost of success. I dunno, it's weird thinking about this as a business venture.

 

so, has anyone been involved in such a situation? what does this sound like to you?

This situation reminds me of Super Hans and Jez lol

lol

lol

 

Avoid

sounds a bit dodgy

Oh no no no no no no!

Don't do it, man.

 

I'm curious though... How much money has he made over the last 12 months from his music and gigs? And how much is he asking you to invest?

if all this would make so much money he would not have to ask you for it

  On 11/11/2015 at 11:36 AM, Deer said:

This situation reminds me of Super Hans and Jez lol

lol seriously. He is asking you to give him money so he doesn't have to work? If he already has a fanbase and makes money from his music/DJing why doesn't he use that instead? Sounds like a shitty deal to me.

 

If there's a contract involved obviously it depends what is in the contract. Are you guaranteed your investment back?

  On 11/11/2015 at 11:54 AM, QQQ said:

lol seriously. He is asking you to give him money so he doesn't have to work? If he already has a fanbase and makes money from his music/DJing why doesn't he use that instead? Sounds like a shitty deal to me.

 

If there's a contract involved obviously it depends what is in the contract. Are you guaranteed your investment back?

yes, that's in the contract. my investment gets recouped before he starts making anything. if it isn't recouped in the 2-year period, he's contracted to pay the rest back.

 

I wouldn't call it a 'fanbase' per se. it's more like he's known in some circles by people who hang out in those circles. the sort of brandname-fame that comes with having a dedicated fanbase that follows you, that's not there right now.

 

'work' takes time away from creative endeavours. if you're touring/hustling constantly, you're not spending enough time writing new shit. that's the logic.

  On 11/11/2015 at 12:10 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

one thing i've learned usagi is no matter how sure you are that these things will pan out, it's best to not set any solid goals like the 'plan' that is in place here. if you wanna collab, try it out first and see how you go without locking anything in. i'm not going to say this is a scam or anything, i trust that you know this guy well enough, you've mentioned him before to me i'm pretty sure. what exactly is the money for, by the way?

you don't know this guy.

 

it's not a 'collab', we're not writing tunes together.

 

investing without having a timeframe and setting goals would be too open-ended and would trigger alarm bells in my mind.

 

the money is basically to get the project going, not all towards living costs (which would also trigger alarm bells in my mind). there's a spending plan.

Edited November 11, 2015 by usagi

Do it if and only if you'd be completely alright with losing all the money you invest into this

  On 11/11/2015 at 12:18 PM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

Do it if and only if you'd be completely alright with losing all the money you invest into this

Why don't you guys set up gigs together

and put all that money in one account

All that money goes directly into the project

 

This way no one goes out of pocket

no one is dipping into their rent money

nor going into debt.

 

I wouldn't call it a 'fanbase' per se. it's more like he's known in some circles by people who hang out in those circles. the sort of brandname-fame that comes with having a dedicated fanbase that follows you, that's not there right now.

 

I am confused how he would lead you to a manager / more music business situation

if there is no fanbase?

 

Sounds to me like you guys are doing separate projects that is earning you base money

and are talking about doing something new and refreshing

but there is no seed money

I would think if you guys could put your energy toward collectively raising that money

via gigs musical and non musical that you can do together for the cause

It would be a better deal than getting involved in an investment that has risky odds of getting your return back

 

In other words why put up money that you might not have to spend

and risk not getting it all back

when you can create new money with the proper amount of drive and resourcefulness

and risk that money instead.

This also might increase both of your incentive to reach the goal

 

 

Lol The first thing I thought of was super hands

it's not RAED is it?

Step 1: Choose a name which is a cross between one of your songs and one of their songs.

 

Step 2: Release the tracks under the name only, pretend it's one person who lives abroad somewhere

 

Step 3: If anyone asks deny it's you.

 

Step 4: Admit it's you indirectly in an interview.

 

Step 5: Deny it's you!

 

Step 6: Repeat steps 4 and 5 ad infinitum.

The longer the note, the more dread

seems like most of you guys didn't read the OP.

 

  On 11/11/2015 at 1:05 PM, Phlexunger said:

Why don't you guys set up gigs together

and put all that money in one account

All that money goes directly into the project

 

This way no one goes out of pocket

no one is dipping into their rent money

nor going into debt.

 

I wouldn't call it a 'fanbase' per se. it's more like he's known in some circles by people who hang out in those circles. the sort of brandname-fame that comes with having a dedicated fanbase that follows you, that's not there right now.

 

I am confused how he would lead you to a manager / more music business situation

if there is no fanbase?

 

Sounds to me like you guys are doing separate projects that is earning you base money

and are talking about doing something new and refreshing

but there is no seed money

I would think if you guys could put your energy toward collectively raising that money

via gigs musical and non musical that you can do together for the cause

It would be a better deal than getting involved in an investment that has risky odds of getting your return back

 

In other words why put up money that you might not have to spend

and risk not getting it all back

when you can create new money with the proper amount of drive and resourcefulness

and risk that money instead.

This also might increase both of your incentive to reach the goal

 

 

Lol The first thing I thought of was super hands

 

I don't make or play music.

 

he's gigging all the time and that is what's preventing him from sinking his teeth into new creative endeavours. also trying to save away money by doing that is hard when you're a fulltime musician with no dayjob. I am putting up the seed money so he doesn't have to do that shit and can focus 100% on this new project.

 

I don't want to start a discussion about the semantics of the word "fanbase", rather there is an audience and he is an established player in the scene, with a pedigree and connections. this is not someone who just started posting in EKT. also I don't think he'd put the guarantee of me recouping my money (prior to him making anything) in the contract if he didn't feel there was such an audience and there was a good chance things would take off.

 

so what I'm primarily trying to get a handle on is the risk on the return, not stuff like "hurrr he's gonna run away with your money".

it sounds like you've already made your mind up to lose a fuck ton of money, and a friend.

 

good luck to you :(

  On 11/11/2015 at 1:36 PM, usagi said:

what I'm primarily trying to get a handle on is the risk on the return, not stuff like "hurrr he's gonna run away with your money".

 

He's not necessarily going to run away with your money, but he is definitely going to spend it on lush synths he doesn't really need and copious amounts of crack cocaine.

  On 11/11/2015 at 1:44 PM, oscillik said:

it sounds like you've already made your mind up

This.

 

Anyway how do we know the risk without knowing how much money is involved, how much that money would mean to you etc. You could be talking about £2000 or £20,000, and either amount may be a lot to you or a little. If it's guaranteed back are you willing to take him to court if he breaks contract? Just because it's guaranteed doesn't mean it'll be as simple as it sounds.

I fully understood what you were asking

I did not assume the guy was a noob nor a crook

 

However

even established artists loose money on releases

That is not to say don't do it

 

I believe anyone can do anything if they put their mind to it

and if they make a good plan

 

Also

if they consider their downside and take precautions on their downside

minimizing their risk

 

The thought I suggested is based on your question of investment risk

It's common sense investing to consider your odds and if they are 50 50

that is a bad investment with too much risk

 

Now if you try and make the odds better by minimizing the risk

you can be less speculative about your return

 

If you feel that his promise to pay it back is bond then why did you need reassurance ?

 

I think its very noble of you to support the arts in this manner

I am just saying to protect yourself

be aware of your downside and try and hedge against it

 

That is not a character judgement on your artist

you are investing in an artist and project

If you use the investment strategy of downside protection

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/downside-protection.asp

 

You can come up with whatever protective plan that makes sense to you

I was just giving you an example

does he have full details of sales figures of his previous work? you need to calculate your possible ROI. treat it like a normal business venture.

Had to check Phlexunger's account to see if Limpy had switched usernames

  On 11/11/2015 at 2:38 PM, ThatSpanishGuy said:

Had to check Phlexunger's account to see if Limpy had switched usernames

lol yeah. haven't seeh him in a while.

haiku writers unite !