Proof of Animal Consciousness Thread

Jaaaazz, babeh.

flol at the one that dances solo at the beginning 

more music maker evidence

https://corvidresearch.blog/2020/12/21/do-you-see-what-i-see-subjective-consciousness-in-crows/

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What this shows us is that carrion crows have the neurological substrates that support subjective consciousness, and it indeed appears that they have individual experiences of stimuli. It does not show us, despite many articles to the contrary, that they are “self-aware” or engage in metacognition (the ability to “ponder the contents of their own minds“). Still, these findings makes crows pretty unique among animals, putting them in a category shared only by primates.

they’re maybe making some jumps but this is an interesting read nonetheless 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3nwgw/fish-might-really-be-self-aware-new-study-finds

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In the initial 2019 study, Kohda and his colleagues injected brown pigment into the throats of four fish while they were anesthetized, and then exposed them to a mirror. Three of the four test subjects scraped their throats against the tank substrate, as if trying to remove it. The team also performed alternate tests in which a transparent pigment was injected, which prompted no scraping behavior from the fish when presented with a mirror. When the brown pigment was injected and no mirror was present, the fish also did not exhibit the scraping response. Kohda and his colleagues therefore concluded that the fish had recognized themselves in the mirror based on their reaction to the brown pigment in their reflections.

 

Some of the main criticisms leveled at the 2019 study involved its small sample size of four individual fish and its conclusions that the fish were genuinely self-inspecting in the mirrors. De Waal also pointed out that the marking technique might have been physically irritating to the fish, which could muddy their reaction to their reflections by introducing a competing stimulus.

 

To counter those concerns in the new study, Kohda’s team increased the sample size to 18 individuals and experimented with different injection techniques to clarify whether the fish were scraping their throats due to irritation or self-recognition, or a combination of the two sensations. Instead of only injecting the brown pigment at a depth of one millimeter under the skin, they also tried placing it at a more invasive depth of three millimeters. 

 

In this version of the test, the mark was barely visible and the fish scraped their throats regardless of whether or not a mirror was present, suggesting that they were reacting to the potentially irritating sensation of the deeper injection. However, fish with the shallower one-millimeter mark only scraped their throats when a mirror was present, hinting that the visual cue of the brown spot provoked the behavior rather than any sensations. 

 

In addition, fish injected with green and blue spots, which don’t resemble parasites, did not exhibit the scraping behavior in front of the mirror. This finding further strengthens the evidence that the wrasse really do recognize themselves in the mirror, because they only took action to remove the spots that resembled parasites. Furthermore, Kohda and his team report that their experiment “shows the highest rate of passing with this large sample size,” with only one “failing fish” out of the 18 that took the test, according to the study.

 

In an email, de Waal said that many of his concerns with the initial 2019 study were sufficiently addressed by the new research, which he called “quite convincing.”

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interesting to see De Waal weighing in on it - he showed his skepticism, as any scientist should, and they continued to develop the study until they could show it pretty much without a doubt.

Frans de Waal has an extensive career in primate research, and has demonstrated that chimpanzees and bonobos show genuine empathy and reciprocation. so as you can imagine, his standards are very, very high.

this is absolutely mind-blowing news. fish and sea creatures are criminally overlooked and ignored with this type of science. simply being underwater, and not being out in the open, is a dangerous way for a species to live...

probably been posted ITT already

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)

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The new declaration, signed by biologists and philosophers, formally embraces that view. It reads, in part: “The empirical evidence indicates at least a realistic possibility of conscious experience in all vertebrates (including all reptiles, amphibians and fishes) and many invertebrates (including, at minimum, cephalopod mollusks, decapod crustaceans and insects).” Inspired by recent research findings that describe complex cognitive behaviors in these and other animals, the document represents a new consensus and suggests that researchers may have overestimated the degree of neural complexity required for consciousness.

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https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/

bolding mine.

also worth thinking about in these discussions:

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While the declaration makes no mention of artificial intelligence, the issue of possible AI consciousness has been on the minds of animal-consciousness researchers. “Current AI systems are very unlikely to be conscious,” Sebo said. However, what he’s learned about animal minds “does give me pause and makes me want to approach the topic with caution and humility.”