New producers forum

  On 3/2/2016 at 5:54 AM, auxien said:

 

  On 3/2/2016 at 4:56 AM, MisterE said:

i just dont agree with his assertion that 'taking music seriously' = learning theory

sent using magic space waves

If part of taking music seriously is making your own set of theories about music, regardless of what 'scripture' tells you what music theory should be about, I think there's a nice middle ground. I personally think that whenever you take something seriously, you become a student of it. And being a student of music doesn't necessarily have to mean you have to study any existing theories, even if it would be worth it. In the end, it's the personal theories which drive people. Not the theories in some dusty books. Books don't breathe.

  On 3/2/2016 at 1:15 AM, Zephyr_Nova said:

 

  On 3/1/2016 at 10:53 PM, Test Fforet said:

 

 

Doesnt matter how you do it, wether you got some "classic" lessons or you become a self-taught composer. The only difference would be that you will use different words for the same techniques.

 

 

Yeah, this. Anyone who is naturally musical, listens to a wide variety of music, and is also creative, is bound to instinctively use many of the same techniques in composing as someone who is classically trained. And I think this can often lead to more interesting, original results, because the artist who is composing intuitively is not going to be going from point A to point C based on rules of logic... they're more likely to go a less well trodden path. I've witnessed some musicians rely mostly on theory when working out ideas, and it often leads to very predictable results. That's not to say you should ignore the logic aspect... I mean, it's there whether the composer's aware of it or not. And if you can learn the theory and not have it dictate where your composition leads, it can show you some interesting alternate paths to take that you may not have considered otherwise. The most important thing is to know what you love in music, and then pursue that tirelessly. I like music that surprises me, and music that moves me. The music that does both is the music I love most.

 

Wait, what is this thread about again?

 

absolutely. This is waht I was saying terribly before I got dragged in by annoyance ha. All is good.

  On 3/2/2016 at 6:20 AM, LimpyLoo said:

Exactly, Sweepstakes.

 

Imagine you were a sculptor, or a painter, or an animator, or a collage artist, or a poet, or an architect, or a sound designer: Wouldn't you wanna learn what sorts of techniques and ideas were already floating around? The history and pedagogy of your craft?

 

If your answer is "no" then yes, I would contend that you don't take it *too* seriously.

See, this is where you are right and wrong at the same time. Sure, learn all you want but if not, take your own approach and see how far you can go with your own way. You'll end up with different results of course but they may both have value or no value to the listener. People who now lots of theory can still write the most stale material. I'd love a happy medium between the two personally. I do lack on chops but I also don't want to replace natural melodies with noodling by numbers and ideas based on scales that have already been done a million times. It's actually quite hard to get that natural feel. Take your track in your sig limpy. It's really good. But, some parts of the melody really work but then some bits sound like you thought "i'll play this scale next because it would work". I don't really want to diss personal work but it's just an example. I'm sure you could find bits in my work where you would say that if I played a *insert tehnical phrase* here instead of repeating the line it would be much better. Maybe you'd be right. I dunno.

  On 3/2/2016 at 1:49 AM, LimpyLoo said:

To TL;DR my thesis:

 

(Since this conversation veered into a pro-/anti-theory debate)

1) "Theory" is just a bunch of colors, tools, approaches, perspectives and textures that you can use or not use. I can't imagine why people wouldn't wanna know about them

 

2) when I said "serious about music" the interpretations ITT ranged from "serious about promoting your music" to "precious and pretentious about music"...

 

what I *meant* was simply someone who might say "I'm gonna spend 6 months making the most amazing album I am capable of making"

my point is making music is easy (relatively!) and is fun and takes A LOT of time and effort, same as with movies! there ain't not that much movie theory now is there? if you wanna make sum just do and do it for yourself and the rest is history!

edit: if everyone thought like you there would be half as much music on this forum! and no expert knob twiddler! hell, most of rephlex is just a laugh!

edit2: imho

  On 3/2/2016 at 6:20 AM, LimpyLoo said:

If your answer is "no" then yes, I would contend that you don't take it *too* seriously.

I would agree with you if you stated that in front of a class of music students or any other less experimental, in a sense more to professionals directed internet site. But you are fighting that fight on watmm.

I dont understand why you want to discuss this topic with a bunch of batshit crazy experimental musicians, who make music just for the fun of doing it. (me included) This should not be worth your time and time is money in any business.

Sorry.

Follow your own way. Don't care about what the other people say but listen to the criticism of your close music-friends (maybe you'll find some @ https://theproducersforum.com why not?)

Make sound, make music and visit the [new producers forum] if it pleases you and gives you input

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6t5hZTEdbI&feature=youtu.be&t=8m22s

42 pages of wip since january, lol, most don't even have one reply...

It's because everyone wants people to listen to their stuff but is not willing to listen to anyone elses. Probably.

Happens everywhere.

  On 3/2/2016 at 5:16 PM, Chesney said:

It's because everyone wants people to listen to their stuff but is not willing to listen to anyone elses. Probably.

Happens everywhere.

  On 3/2/2016 at 5:06 PM, Herr Jan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6t5hZTEdbI&feature=youtu.be&t=8m22s

I so love this part of the Interview.

Herr Jan knows the score, nothing to be add.

grHmRGhhR, WE MUST ! THIS NOTE IS SO IMPORTANT !

haha, fuck me harder, hahaha

  On 3/2/2016 at 5:08 PM, THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON said:

42 pages of wip since january, lol, most don't even have one reply...

sent using magic space waves

  On 3/2/2016 at 1:49 AM, LimpyLoo said:

what I *meant* was simply someone who might say "I'm gonna spend 6 months making the most amazing album I am capable of making"

I'm actually just about to do this.

I get the idea behind learning theory - I started having guitar lessons recently because I was totally falling into the trap of 'major triads' or whatever and I felt it would be help no end with compositional skills. I've definitely enjoyed it - even if a lot of it has involved my poor guitar tutor trying to explain mixolydian mode or somesuch while I stare at him like a dog being shown a card trick.

But I'm not sure the emphasis on theory is quite as important in a lot of electronic music, and that's something that's borne out by a lot of my favourite music in this genre being made by people that clearly have no idea about these sort of things - whether it's some face-melting acid banger, or even some complex full-on autechre style electronics. For example, listening to jungle in the 90s I'd much prefer some tearing amen rollout from a 17-year old and his S2000, to some of the godawful stuff that came out from self-proclaimed 'real musicians', tepid jazz noodlings over weak beats that were still probably more 'compositionally correct'.

Sometimes you get people combining virtuosity and theory to come out with something awesome in this type of music, like 'hard normal daddy', just as often you get people with no grounding in theory coming up with something equally awesome but different. There's certainly not the same correlation between formal training and end results that you get in genres like jazz or classical.

Back to the original topic - someone is having this EXACT same gripe in the producer's forum...

https://theproducersforum.com/index.php?topic=2811.0

that font is atrocious, had a really hard time reading that... and i even zoomed in...

lots of diferent views here and that's ok with me. some like ceephax and his music and i guess what ceephax is for them it's beethoven for me. how i see it is if beethoven learnt about music theory his entire life i could too for a few months at least (well ...next few months cause i'm at the beginning now :)

...and trying to change music for the better:

Jesus Christ! Zau is a cunt. A cunt that has a valid point of course but a plain old cunt.

  On 3/2/2016 at 1:15 AM, Zephyr_Nova said:

 

  On 3/1/2016 at 10:53 PM, Test Fforet said:

 

 

Doesnt matter how you do it, wether you got some "classic" lessons or you become a self-taught composer. The only difference would be that you will use different words for the same techniques.

 

 

Yeah, this. Anyone who is naturally musical, listens to a wide variety of music, and is also creative, is bound to instinctively use many of the same techniques in composing as someone who is classically trained. And I think this can often lead to more interesting, original results, because the artist who is composing intuitively is not going to be going from point A to point C based on rules of logic... they're more likely to go a less well trodden path. I've witnessed some musicians rely mostly on theory when working out ideas, and it often leads to very predictable results. That's not to say you should ignore the logic aspect... I mean, it's there whether the composer's aware of it or not. And if you can learn the theory and not have it dictate where your composition leads, it can show you some interesting alternate paths to take that you may not have considered otherwise. The most important thing is to know what you love in music, and then pursue that tirelessly. I like music that surprises me, and music that moves me. The music that does both is the music I love most.

 

Wait, what is this thread about again?

 

this skit is kinda how i feel

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ulx9rf/upright-citizens-brigade-bradwick-s-family-restaurant

learning music theory is fine but if you think about every single step making a piece of music, like VERBALLY think about it... it's like you become a moron instantly

I do kind of want to make a version of oblique strategies that has even less to do with music/creating but maybe it does?? / human capacity to find meaning in things

only thing I would want to get more learned in music theory for is if I could become good enough to compose without hearing the music/compose in my sleep (which I kind of do already, I just can't beam it over to waking reality)

also probably GOLD AND TEAL/instagram photos are correct according to color theory???

I think its helpful for anyone to know basic theory, circle of fifths and all that.. but theory definitely isn't the first thing producers should be trying to master imo. I've seen the simplest dance tracks get 10x more love than okay-produced composition masterpieces.. it's just the way things are.

If composition is the weak point in your music.. then definitely look into advanced theory until something clicks - but most people don't want to hear a 20 minute symphony about your dog's crusty hemorrhoids, i'm sorry

  On 3/2/2016 at 9:28 PM, clevreuse said:

but most people don't want to hear a 20 minute symphony about your dog's crusty hemorrhoids, i'm sorry

I would LOVE to hear that.

  On 3/2/2016 at 9:28 PM, clevreuse said:

but most people don't want to hear a 20 minute symphony about your dog's crusty hemorrhoids, i'm sorry

most people don't want to hear music of autechre nor afx. should they stop making music?

  On 3/2/2016 at 9:31 PM, paranerd said:

 

  On 3/2/2016 at 9:28 PM, clevreuse said:

but most people don't want to hear a 20 minute symphony about your dog's crusty hemorrhoids, i'm sorry

I would LOVE to hear that.

yeah, i think even people who weren't normally interested in symphony music would probably be curious to hear that one.

  On 3/2/2016 at 9:31 PM, paranerd said:

 

  On 3/2/2016 at 9:28 PM, clevreuse said:

but most people don't want to hear a 20 minute symphony about your dog's crusty hemorrhoids, i'm sorry

I would LOVE to hear that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGAYd2bMgo