Analog Four/Keys vs. Monomachine

I'm looking to add a synth to a machine drum, so i'm not looking for drum sounds in particular. Which synth is more versatile? I'm looking to make lush SAW 1 like pads but also Tuss/Analord like things as well.

I ordered a mnm but who knows if I will ever get it

The combination of effects, multiple outs, and midi sequencing did it for me, plus I have a tempest which is the closest thing to an A4

A4 is an analogue subtractive synth. 4 x 2osc, 2sub osc, 2 multimode filter mono synths and can be linked to make a 4 voice poly. So much can be done with it soundwise. I usually get pads and weird melodies out of it and leave bass duties for other mono's but it can do everything. Having parameter locks on a traditional style synth takes it way past anything imagineable and the performance macros are really fun for tweaking live jams etc. Can control other CV gear and effects track means it's a good effects processor. I have gotten so much from it and it's really easy to use (if you know subtractive synthesis well) I would never get rid of it.

MnM is a digital synth with many synth machines inside. Subtractive, FM, SID, Digipro (beats) and Voice synth. 6 tracks and FX. I have had less time with this one but it's instantly fun. It might take a little time to get really usable sounds from it as it can sound cheesy raw. As soon as you start P locking and getting weird it blossoms. Within half an hour of owning it was already in a track so I was impressed with how easy it was. Good for midi sequencing too. If I had to sell an elektron box for any reason, this one was the last in but probably would not be the first out. The Octa would go if I really needed the money.

Both are amazing boxes, a million times more than YT will lead you to believe. You can take them anywhere, only your ideas limit what you get out of it. Of course, as long as it's sequencer based music you're after ;)

(hopefully that was not too condescending limpy? teehee, jk)

I own neither...I'd used a MnM for a couple months, and played with an A4 a couple times. I'm not going to say that the MnM can't do lush pads as you ask, but that's certainly not its forté. It's much more digital, quirky, and made for glitchy strangeness. A4 has a better sound all around, imo, and would likely be better at what you're looking for. You'll almost need to run the A4 through some sort of effects though, it can be a touch straight/dry, and the lushness yr wanting needs some good reverb and some say the effects built in don't do it justice.

Monomachine is a swiss army knife of hardware, it's versatility and variety of sound possibilities is really useful. It's also a really fun machine to work with. I've made some really nice pads with it but I guess it just depends what you're into. The 6 tracks and thus 6 separate synths that you can use/mute etc is also worth considering (particularly if you haven't got a lot of gear).

I've only played an A4 briefly and wasn't *that* impressed with the presets although looking at it and reading Chesney's points above I'm sure there is a lot more to it than 5 mins scrolling through without any effects. Being objective it probably looks like the A4 is the better choice for what you're after although it may take longer to learn/master?

People who say you can't be warm with digital have apparently never routed lfo to osc freq at about .5 hz with a +-20 cent drift, tweaked the filter with res up to 30%, and added delay/chorus.

Don't forget the mnm is $500 cheaper.

what's that string of jive got to do with warmth? A synth has it or it doesn't. you can get plenty of pecieved warmth from digital synths and the MnM for sure. Warmth is one of those shitty buzzwords anyway. But I guess warmth is the closest word to describe that thick beef that one synth has more than another.

Yeah definitely do not judge it or any synth on it's presets. Elektrons presets are not what you should expect from the machine.

You can get all this and more from the MnM but you gotta Think Different®. It's not the kind of synth that's going to give it up easy but when you find its g spot it will sing like an angel.

dunno feel like "warmth" is a lot more about tonal drift than anything else...................................

disregard the above and my participation in this thread.

that is all

I mean, I know what you mean about drift. I don't think you're wrong and that's certainly part of it. But there's other things I often perceive as warmth:

- Waveforms that aren't uniform across note range (which is super general)

- Filters not keytracking perfectly or otherwise behaving in unpredictable ways

- Overdrive/soft clipping

- Rounder (but not -too- round) waveforms

- Bottom-heavy waveforms

- Solid presence around the human vocal range

- Inconsistent dynamics, both within and between notes

- Inconsistent timing (groove, perhaps)

- Softer attack

- Noise (not the raspy, hissy FM-type stuff but fizzy, wooly tape/line-type stuff)

All of which, yeah, could be emulated or even done better digitally.

I've been pretty happy with this, at $300, It would be hard to find a better analog synth at this price point.

https://www.arturia.com/products/hardware-synths/microbrute

  On 4/4/2016 at 2:14 AM, sweepstakes said:

I mean, I know what you mean about drift. I don't think you're wrong and that's certainly part of it. But there's other things I often perceive as warmth:

- Waveforms that aren't uniform across note range (which is super general)

- Filters not keytracking perfectly or otherwise behaving in unpredictable ways

- Overdrive/soft clipping

- Rounder (but not -too- round) waveforms

- Bottom-heavy waveforms

- Solid presence around the human vocal range

- Inconsistent dynamics, both within and between notes

- Inconsistent timing (groove, perhaps)

- Softer attack

- Noise (not the raspy, hissy FM-type stuff but fizzy, wooly tape/line-type stuff)

All of which, yeah, could be emulated or even done better digitally.

Solid description there sir. Agreed on all points, including the possibility of digital trumping analog in some cases.

I still think clarktrent should go for the A4 over the MnM given the description of things he wants, though, and that it's much easier to get the sounds he wants out of the A4 vs. the MnM; and by this I don't just mean ease of use (though that is important for someone who's a relative beginner) but easy to get a vast range of those types of sounds. For most/nearly all users, the A4 will have more sounds in that ballpark than the MnM will. The capabilities of the MnM for synthesis are vast, no doubt, but for more traditional synth sounds the A4 wins hands down. Assuming cost is no concern, I say go for the A4.

  On 4/4/2016 at 2:28 AM, auxien said:

I still think clarktrent should go for the A4 over the MnM given the description of things he wants, though, and that it's much easier to get the sounds he wants out of the A4 vs. the MnM; and by this I don't just mean ease of use (though that is important for someone who's a relative beginner) but easy to get a vast range of those types of sounds. For most/nearly all users, the A4 will have more sounds in that ballpark than the MnM will. The capabilities of the MnM for synthesis are vast, no doubt, but for more traditional synth sounds the A4 wins hands down. Assuming cost is no concern, I say go for the A4.

 

Appreciate your perspective on this. I haven't used an A4 (but I want one); I've only got a Monomachine.

To contradict myself a bit, if the price was still similar on them, knowing what I know now, I probably would have gone for the A4 first (and, yes, I still LOVE the Monomachine). Why?

- That Nord Lead-like, bread & butter, 2-oscillator, subtractive voice architecture that excels at so many things

- Superior polyphony management

- Parameter macros for cleaner jams

- Better sequencer

- Sound locks - drums can be so frickin' hard (but satisfying) on the Monomachine, and this would help SO MUCH

- Better effects, albeit with less interesting routing

- Using LFOs at audio rate for FM

- Because I love making lists

Also there's something so beautifully 80s about the A4. I can't put my finger on it. The Monomachine is too but in a different way. With the A4 it's almost like it's taking everything great about every great analog synth made in the 80s, and taking them up a level in every way.

yeah, the sound locks and lush as fuck reverb are something I wish the monomachine had.

If you really want warmth, get an analog delay with mod parameters.

I made my Streichfett sound exactly like rhubarb

Ha, nice shea. Yeah, you was not wrong in your description, I hope you didn't think I was calling you out on bullshit? But that sentence kind of sounded a bit matter of fact.

Sweep nailed it with his list, "warmth" is such a loose term that you can attach anything to it but yeah, it's a combination of things that can contribute to something being perceived as warmer than something else.

and yeah Aux, many digi's beat analogue in this area too. People forget there are plenty of weak vintage synths out there.

The A4 is incredible really when you break it down. The initial waveforms are definitely not inspiring like many analogues but it's when you start locking indiscriminately things start travelling outside of what was possible with subtractive synthesis very quickly.

I actually think that the effects are really nice. Certainly different to many standard and high end effects but they don't sound cheap at all and really bring the synth to life. Just be mindfull not to slather everything in the verb as it will just sound like it's an elektron box rather than music that was not created just happens to be (which is my goal ha) whether that's a good or thing I guess does not matter. The A4 fits your bill better than the MnM Clark but if you don't know synthesis really well then it's going to be alot of work finding your way. It's easy though once you memorise the functions and what they mean/do.

  On 4/4/2016 at 6:58 AM, sheathe said:

If you really want warmth, get an analog delay with mod parameters.

 

can you recommend a good one?

How did I miss the last A4 OS update.

OH MY GOD!

Not sure how redundant this makes the MnM but the FM capabilities are off the charts.

That and the new probability trigs.

FUCK!

Get the A4 Clark ;)

  On 4/4/2016 at 5:03 PM, Chesney said:

How did I miss the last A4 OS update.

 

OH MY GOD!

 

Not sure how redundant this makes the MnM but the FM capabilities are off the charts.

That and the new probability trigs.

FUCK!

 

Get the A4 Clark ;)

Haha oh, shit! Enjoy!!

i just realized a discussion on "warmth" is the geartalk equivalent of nuclear war so i opted out.

  On 4/4/2016 at 4:24 PM, xox said:

 

  On 4/4/2016 at 6:58 AM, sheathe said:

If you really want warmth, get an analog delay with mod parameters.

can you recommend a good one?

 

i use the deluxe memory boy (ches uses the man), and it is a very inspiring box. it has the same settings of the moog (delay rate modulation speed and depth controls), but is a sixth of the price.

http://www.ehx.com/products/deluxe-memory-boy

here is a little snip of the mem boy

http://picosong.com/E8bX/

sounds great! what a warmth ;)

thnx!

  On 4/4/2016 at 5:03 PM, Chesney said:

How did I miss the last A4 OS update.

 

OH MY GOD!

 

Not sure how redundant this makes the MnM but the FM capabilities are off the charts.

That and the new probability trigs.

FUCK!

 

hey ches, can you upload an example pls

I played an Analog4 for about 15 mins and was seriously underwhelmed personally. However, I've heard brilliant things done with them and the sequencing is incredible. What I'd love is that sequencing coupled with the sound engine(s) of the MnM.

Spam time but all of these are Machinedrum + Monomachine...
+ MI Shruthi

+ Novation BS2

+ small modular rig

+ Casio PT1

  On 4/4/2016 at 9:45 PM, futureimage said:

I played an Analog4 for about 15 mins and was seriously underwhelmed personally. However, I've heard brilliant things done with them and the sequencing is incredible. What I'd love is that sequencing coupled with the sound engine(s) of the MnM.

 

Spam time but all of these are Machinedrum + Monomachine...

+ MI Shruthi

+ Novation BS2

+ small modular rig

+ Casio PT1

not a spam nor a ham fut-tur guy. that enola 21 is such a hit!

btw...how difficult would be for elektron to upgrade md/mnm's OS to match the sequencing of the new machines?! elektron pls

  On 4/4/2016 at 9:53 PM, xox said:

 

not a spam nor a ham fut-tur guy. that enola 21 is such a hit!

 

btw...how difficult would be for elektron to upgrade md/mnm's OS to match the sequencing of the new machines?! elektron pls

 

Thanks!!!

I think it would be near impossible - the MD and MnM are so old that I expect all the "newer" gear is based on a completely different MCU system. Besides, OS updates for the MD and MnM seem to have been completely abandoned, which is very very very sad. Still, not bad going - I still think Elektron are the kings at OS expansion.