Need suggestions for software (a cross between Renosie and SuperCollider?)

Yeah, prototypes in Max, the app from the ground up. Source: Monolake's website.

  On 7/7/2016 at 4:55 AM, Morphy said:

a Lua scripting VST looks promising http://www.osar.fr/protoplug/

 

This is very interesting, but for now, I'm putting off learning DSP for a couple years.

  On 7/7/2016 at 12:17 AM, g8tr1522 said:

 

  On 7/7/2016 at 12:07 AM, g8tr1522 said:

• Can I use the Pd integration to output notes into the note editor?
• Can I use it to output ~whatever~ on the automation?
• Can I use it to track through samples?
• That paper on the website says "Custom Pd controllers make it possible to control Pd from Radium, and to control Radium from Pd". How crazy does that get? Can I do that recursively? E.g., I enter data into a column in the pattern editor - this data then changes values in a Pd patch, but these changes are scheduled (with my original pattern) - but THEN this Pd patch outputs note data into a separate pattern column.

So subsitute: instead of Pd, a C++ program. And instead of Radium, Jeskola Buzz.

 

I seem to remember getting PD to send midi data via OpenOSC and the Peer Machines respond to midi data, and any machine parameter in buzz can be affected by a Peer Machine - so in a roundabout way .... aye probably !

  On 7/7/2016 at 2:26 AM, auxien said:

This looks interesting, but a quick glance at the videos doesn't show much that's unique or even interesting, and it looks like it'd be terrible to use in any 'live' way, even in studio trying to jam/write. I could be wrong of course. Good price on it at least!

I have to "au contraire" that. Usine is substantially a live environment, always have been and according to senso always will be. the grid helps to arrange events and patches, but works rather like a conductor, who leads a musical ensemble(patches, instruments). I mean, with the physics engine alone you could do hours of impro autechre stuff with touch interaction and everything at a glance. Problems are 1. a small community and 2. no "immersive" learning materials, like webinars or instructional videos (in english) whatsoever.

JACK dawg.. no need to choose just one.

 

http://www.jackaudio.org/

 

Run Max or PD and create routings between either (or both at the same time) and whatever DAW you want to use. I doubt you'll find any one piece of software alone that meets all of your requirements. It's more fun anyway to just use them all at the same time and wire them together with JACK's patchbay. It can route audio and MIDI signals, including clock and transport.

Edited July 7, 2016 by maitake

  On 7/7/2016 at 7:17 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

not sure if ableton used the "guts" of max for its instruments and effects, any reference on that? i think they coded the whole thing from the ground up but it was indeed based on prototypes made in max/msp.

No reference at all actually. I've seen a few people say it on the Ableton forum and maybe Gearslutz but it was said enough and with such confidence I assumed it to be truths that I'd just never heard. Will see if I can find some actual facts concerning this later, just because I'm curious. And btw I meant that Max is the guts of some instruments or effects within Ableton.

"According to an old myth Live is based on a MAX patcher. This would be completely impossible to do! What is true, is that before there was Live, there were MAX patches and Reaktor ensembles by Gerhard and me that did a lot of things we both found interesting, like timestreching beat loops, or a sequencer that allowed to switch between individual patterns for each instrument in real time. Many of those ideas found its way into Live. Without our experiences from performing live together and without our way of working on musical material in a studio, Live would not exist. Also I often use MAX patches to prototype effects and instruments, or max patches I developed for my own personal use later become available as Live effects. The Grain Delay is a good example for this. Many flavors of those effects have been used on Monolake records before the effect became part of Live."

 

http://roberthenke.com/technology/ableton_live.html

Yup, which is why I said "Many of the ideas that Ableton is based on were taken from Max patches that Henke made"

 

His little recap there is nice.

 

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/03/see-max-patch-robert-henke-built-ableton-live-hear-music-made/

Edited July 7, 2016 by auxien

  On 7/7/2016 at 2:01 PM, maitake said:

JACK dawg.. no need to choose just one.

 

http://www.jackaudio.org/

 

Run Max or PD and create routings between either (or both at the same time) and whatever DAW you want to use. I doubt you'll find any one piece of software alone that meets all of your requirements. It's more fun anyway to just use them all at the same time and wire them together with JACK's patchbay. It can route audio and MIDI signals, including clock and transport.

 

Ah, yeah, I'm sure I could do exactly what I need by routing software together. But that sounds too hard

I'll probably end up doing it if I absolutely have to, but like I said in my initial post: I need to be hand-held.

Okay, I'm gonna give a couple very specific examples of what I'm wanting. I'll generalize the situations by using generic tracker jargon. But if this could be done in another software with something like a piano roll or a timeline, then that's totally fine. I also asked about this in the Radium google-group.

So we'll assume: 1) that I have a generic tracker. 2) I can use scripts to 'place' notes onto the lines in a track's column or to 'place' values in an automation column. 3) I set the patterns to have 64 lines. (A "pattern" would be a collection of tracks and other columns - like in Renoise).

 

This first example can actually be done in Renoise with xStream.

 

I know that instead of having the code update via pattern playback, you could make the script 'do the update at the right moment' with a return/getter of the pattern's current line number. But having the update in the pattern itself would be a really intuitive way of modifying the code. I know this may be too specific for my own needs, but this is exactly what I want. And again, if this could achieved with a different paradigm (eg, piano roll or timeline), I'd like to know.

I'm especially wondering if I could do the second example with Max for Live. I.e., the "code updates" would be put on Live's timeline. And upon playback, this would update values in a Max patch, over time. I doubt I could achieve the "logging the results" mentioned above, but I can live with that.

Also, any ideas on how I could route software together to achieve this in a tracker? I did just say I was too lazy for that, but I'm realizing that this may be my only option.

Edited July 7, 2016 by g8tr1522

That actually sounds amazing. I'm merely posting in this thread so I can be reminded about it if you ever get it to work in a tracker, but it does sound like m4l could do something like that. A friend of mine has used it to plot all kinds of note data to live's piano roll (including pixel art), so using that in conjunction with conditionals based on note data (ie. a feedback loop where if a note is triggered in the piano roll it can set something going in max, plotting/changing note data back to the piano roll) would probably be your best bet.

Max 7 also has jit.cellblock, an excel-like spreadsheet object, which can be re-programmed into a tracker interface.

I'm sorry I died for a month, but I'm opening this thread back up to get a few more answers. I just finished a 6 week technical writing class, and I didn't even bother with music or programming during then. 

 

Seems like either Max or Max4Live is my best bet. I'll have to ask about this in a more specific thread (I guess), or on a Max forum. But real quick,

 

 

  On 7/10/2016 at 11:22 PM, Entorwellian said:

Max 7 also has jit.cellblock, an excel-like spreadsheet object, which can be re-programmed into a tracker interface.

How???? I'm trying to google this, but I can't find anything. This sounds PERFECT though!

 

 

  On 7/8/2016 at 1:57 AM, modey said:

That actually sounds amazing. I'm merely posting in this thread so I can be reminded about it if you ever get it to work in a tracker, but it does sound like m4l could do something like that. A friend of mine has used it to plot all kinds of note data to live's piano roll (including pixel art), so using that in conjunction with conditionals based on note data (ie. a feedback loop where if a note is triggered in the piano roll it can set something going in max, plotting/changing note data back to the piano roll) would probably be your best bet.

This sounds perfect too. But Live Standard plus M4L is too expensive for me. Even with student discounts. In M4L, can I do any audio stuff I can do in ordinary Max? Because I'd be hesitant to get it if I'm missing useful Max features.

Edited August 16, 2016 by g8tr1522

  On 8/16/2016 at 5:10 AM, g8tr1522 said:

I'm sorry I died for a month, but I'm opening this thread back up to get a few more answers. I just finished a 6 week technical writing class, and I didn't even bother with music or programming during then. 

 

Seems like either Max or Max4Live is my best bet. I'll have to ask about this in a more specific thread (I guess), or on a Max forum. But real quick,

 

 

  On 7/10/2016 at 11:22 PM, Entorwellian said:

Max 7 also has jit.cellblock, an excel-like spreadsheet object, which can be re-programmed into a tracker interface.

How???? I'm trying to google this, but I can't find anything. This sounds PERFECT though!

 

Check the reference and data tutorials about it. You can repurpose it to be a tracker window; It doesn't come pre-programmed as one.