Will he ever do anything in the style of On again?

Why is this Costco brand Squarepusher calling us "kids"?

Thanks for the Cortini mix - been really enjoying his solo stuff the last half a year or so.

  On 9/15/2016 at 11:15 PM, killabyte11 said:

Hey fact magazine puts - On at #2 of their top 100 IDM tracks of all time so F.U all LOL.

http://www.factmag.com/2014/09/22/the-100-greatest-idm-tracks-100-51/100/

 

It's clear that so many people on this board do not understand dance music, repetition etc...aka the culture in which Aphex Twin comes from. As evidence from the above comments - which puts the repetitive nature of his early tracks down to a limited skill set?! HAHA dude you could try your whole life with unlimited equipment and you wouldn't be able to create a single one of those tracks.

 

To me complexity has very little place what so ever in music. Metapharstic is one of my favorite Aphex Twin tracks...as is the "elephant track"...as is 73 yips, On, Xepha, everything on ICBYD. Basically I love everything up to 1995. In 1996 I picked up the RDJ album the day it came out and have to say I was a bit disappointed. I tried for weeks to like it and there are a few I like on it but it never had the impact of the early records for me and really nothing he's put out since then has come close to that earlier period.

 

The music of Aphex Twin comes from an extremely deep sub culture of underground dance music in which music has more of a function than sitting in your bedroom and chin stroking to it....to the novelty of it changing every second. Notice that 90% of what RDJ posts on soundcloud for his favorite obscure tracks are, as you would say "repetitive". Repetition focuses the mind into a trance like state where one can dream - or on a dancefloor - dance. Music that is constantly changing offers no room for the imagination of the listener to enter as it forces you to pay strict attention to it's every moment. To me that kind of music is all about the artist showing off - "look what I can do" but it makes for very un-enjoyable listening. I can say the same about Autechre...the more complex/progressive their music got, the more I left it behind.

 

Say what you want but the majority of the most infectious, compelling, influential music of modern time is repetitive.

 

Seriously...educate yourselves on the history of this music. Maybe take some psychedelic drugs or smoke a spliff. I don't what else to tell you.

  On 9/6/2016 at 1:14 PM, purlieu said:

Underworld's reworking of tracks is always inspiring. The way Pearl's Girl became Tin There (via Carp Dreams... Koi) is wonderful. The outtakes on the deluxe issues plus live tracks are great examples of the way their tracks evolved from just jamming them in the studio. It took me a while to realise that Spoon Deep started out as Spoonman. There's not much of that in their music these days, which makes me sad. Even on A Hundred Days Off they seemed to avoid making too many links - the b-side Ansum, the full length version of Mo Move, and Little Speaker all come from the same sessions, but they cut out all the bits that make the similarities obvious, which I thought was a shame.

Then you have FSOL, who did kind of the opposite - when they finished a track it was left alone, and if they wanted to do a different version they'd build it up from scratch again, hence their EPs with really dramatically different versions of tracks, and stuff like Lifeforms which evolved into Lifeforms Path 5, which then evolved into Life Form Ends (with the Papua New Guinea sample in the middle); Lifeforms also spawned Ill Flower, which spawned part of Environments Part 1 and was also rebuilt into the drastically different Light Forming. Glass from Dead Cities also became the unrecognisable I Turn to Face the Sun from Life in Moments.

 

It's something I really want to start doing in my own music. Obviously Autechre do it a lot, particularly with EPs related to albums, and Orbital used to do similar. It was always so much fun getting a single or EP and finding intriguing bits related to tracks you already knew. So much better than just getting in other artists to remix the tracks.

purlieu, on 06 Sept 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

Spot on spot on!

I do miss that about the early dance/electronica world. But not just reveling in it from a nostalgic standpoint just cuz I grew up with it. I really value the culture and vibe of it, which still lives on to this day in certain communities and subcultures, but no one can deny that the 90s rave scene was as you guys say, unlike anything else- kind of like what happened in the 60s. Artists like Orbital, 808 State, Underworld, etc certainly draw from some of the best of that very underground world, but were able to bring it to a more commercial light, which is a fantastic balance. Aphex did that too, but had such a vast spectrum that reached far into the maniacally underground just as it did into making beautiful and far reaching tunes with mass appeal (of course along with his industrial techno Come To Daddy that was perfect timing). But back to the point, there really is something about the collective unity of that electronic jam kind of mentality. It was more about all of us than "hey look at my identity and what i can do". It was about the music and atmosphere. It feels more now like "yeah this guy has some banging tracks" or this guy blows that guy outta the water or dude that bass, omg, or wow the mixing and production on this is just top notch etc... of course this forum is not as shallow as the EDM bubble and that community was / is, but it's very difficult to put that aside when we live in a music industry and listeners that expect music for free, and that respects and acknowledges big tech and its devices over the artists and the labels. Of course in a world that de-values the music and composers, more artists must try and be super super unique or groundbreaking or bigger and better than the next. Which is why everyone is on a non-stop mission to have better or more clever sound design than the next producer, because that's almost where dance music has gotten to in 2016.  

I think there is something to be said about making music from an identity / showcase / hot production point of view vs a global kind of hypnotic dance vibe. One is mental and one is more physical. Aphex has been a champion at combining those vibes as well. But his post-Drukqs work certainly focused more on the mental and less on the physical, which i think is a big part of what we're all feeling here and definitely part of the point of this post. 

On is to me one of the leading examples of an incredible fusion of beauty/melody/progression with the hypnotic groove aspect. In a way, it's where his early work meets his mid-later work. The best of all worlds. Kind of idm, kinda noise, kinda dancey, kinda ambient. It's like everything I love in one Aphex track. But then its paired with the other weird, mysterious noisy tracks that have similar sound design, and therefore draw further intrigue to the whole package, as it feels like one big piece of art. I think this is why On as a package- not just the track--is so appealing. 

I think we're pretty much all right, and there are at least three different factors at play:

It was a different culture.  I totally overlooked this.  I almost exclusively listen to music on headphones at home, while a lot of people listen to it on speakers on the dancefloor in bars.  As I've just been reading about in David Byrne's How Music Works (fantastic book, by the way), a lot of popular music has to work in both scenarios.  (Others too, these days.  Listening to music on earphones outside surely goes hand in hand with limiting songs while mastering them.)  The kind of music we talk about here in particular was making a shift from the dancefloor to the bedroom (see the first Artificial Intelligence compilation's serving suggestion on the cover).  It's also nice to hear about the sharing philosophy, which sounds similar to the Amiga mod scene of the time.

It was a different era.  Especially due to how high tech for its time this music was, the tools used to make it are still rapidly evolving.  It's easy quickly throw together a track in a modern DAW and wonder what the big deal is, totally forgetting that back in the early nineties, realtime softsynths and effects plug-ins were largely still a work-in-progress.  Anyone using an Atari ST still was using a computer that couldn't record audio, it could only play notes, displaying them in glorious black and white.

Having said all that, the people making electronic music at the time (and still now, to a large extent) are quite often not especially well versed in music theory, and I stand by my statement that this also contributed to the nature of the music.  Some of it is gratingly out of tune, from Hillbilly 303 to Speed Freak to Leaving Home.  Sometimes the esoteric timbres mask it somewhat, but it's there.  These musicians got better at writing more harmonious music, but only a while after they started releasing albums, which is an interesting way around.  It's a collection of genres (supergenre?) that emphasises timbres and rhythms above harmonies and melodies to an almost absurd degree.  You just couldn't get something like The Garden of Linmiri in pop or rock.

Sorry, I'm rambling again.  Lots of bedroom producers now have the tools available to easily write something like On, that's an interesting balance between the visceral beat to dance to and the cerebral sounds, melodies and harmonies.  Really, the delay's doing a lot of the work, and most of us have a wealth of delay effects to choose from.  So if you want to hear more music like that, great, go and make it.  No one's stopping you.  I think Aphex Twin's a point now though, where the pentatonic scale's no longer as interesting, and definitely not something he needs to use as a crutch.  He's moved on to more complex music.  I'm glad he made so much of all these different kinds of music.

I understand what you're trying to say but addressing a couple of your points - electronic music made now is really no more high tech than then.  The tools are all relatively the same with different interfaces.  Software synthesizers and effects in most instances are cheap imitations of real synthesizers and effects.  Sure anybody can learn how to use a modern DAW and produce tracks but are they any good or just a dime a dozen, mediocre?  Will people still be listening to those tracks in 20 years? you'd be hard pressed to ever recreate some of the sounds of ANY Aphex Twin track ever!  For instance, I don't care what software/ hardware you have....you will never be able to recreate the distorted bass/kick sound of On, start as you mean to go on, 73 yips.  This is one of the things I love most about this music - the element of sound design often times supersedes that of music theory.  Pure sound design/audio sculpture. To me the true essence of underground techno, industrial, house, electro, drum & bass etc...is that it is DIY to the core.  Even more so than punk rock.  Most of the greatest artists in these genre's were not versed in music theory which to me makes for purely inventive music.  RDJ obviously has always had an appreciation/understanding for both melodic and noise elements who is self described as not being traditionally trained in music. 

There never really was a big shift from dance floor/live music to bedroom.  The scene never really slowed down and continues to thrive to this day with more diverse artists than ever.  Vinyl pressing plants are 4 to 5 months backed up with orders - meaning that's the minimum wait period if you wanted to press a record tomorrow - most of them independent labels and a lot of excellent stuff coming out.  And that's not even taking the digital releases and Bandcamp into account. Some say it's a second renaissance.  As well there's been a second renaissance of hardware synths, effects, modular. 

RDJ himself has publicly shunned terms like IDM, because by nature - most of this music is intelligent by design.  One either gets it or doesn't. Notice that 90% of his favorites in the Soundcloud track sharing thread are early 90's techno, house drum & bass etc. To many such as myself, great music is timeless.  Take someone like Dave Byrne's music who you mentioned or any number of musicians and producers from the 60's to 90's - whenever.  Do you honestly think there is an equivalent to those artists now in pop music?  Is anybody going to be listening to today's garbage in 30 years?  Highly doubtful.  The artists, producers, engineers who worked on that music are/were masters.  Pop music now is just another over produced throw away product for the consumer culture idiot masses.

  On 12/3/2016 at 2:34 AM, killabyte11 said:

I understand what you're trying to say but addressing a couple of your points - electronic music made now is really no more high tech than then. The tools are all relatively the same with different interfaces. Software synthesizers and effects in most instances are cheap imitations of real synthesizers and effects. Sure anybody can learn how to use a modern DAW and produce tracks but are they any good or just a dime a dozen, mediocre? Will people still be listening to those tracks in 20 years? you'd be hard pressed to ever recreate some of the sounds of ANY Aphex Twin track ever! For instance, I don't care what software/ hardware you have....you will never be able to recreate the distorted bass/kick sound of On, start as you mean to go on, 73 yips. This is one of the things I love most about this music - the element of sound design often times supersedes that of music theory. Pure sound design/audio sculpture. To me the true essence of underground techno, industrial, house, electro, drum & bass etc...is that it is DIY to the core. Even more so than punk rock. Most of the greatest artists in these genre's were not versed in music theory which to me makes for purely inventive music. RDJ obviously has always had an appreciation/understanding for both melodic and noise elements who is self described as not being traditionally trained in music.

 

There never really was a big shift from dance floor/live music to bedroom. The scene never really slowed down and continues to thrive to this day with more diverse artists than ever. Vinyl pressing plants are 4 to 5 months backed up with orders - meaning that's the minimum wait period if you wanted to press a record tomorrow - most of them independent labels and a lot of excellent stuff coming out. And that's not even taking the digital releases and Bandcamp into account. Some say it's a second renaissance. As well there's been a second renaissance of hardware synths, effects, modular.

RDJ himself has publicly shunned terms like IDM, because by nature - most of this music is intelligent by design. One either gets it or doesn't. Notice that 90% of his favorites in the Soundcloud track sharing thread are early 90's techno, house drum & bass etc. To many such as myself, great music is timeless. Take someone like Dave Byrne's music who you mentioned or any number of musicians and producers from the 60's to 90's - whenever. Do you honestly think there is an equivalent to those artists now in pop music? Is anybody going to be listening to today's garbage in 30 years? Highly doubtful. The artists, producers, engineers who worked on that music are/were masters. Pop music now is just another over produced throw away product for the consumer culture idiot masses.

What about Bruno Mars?

Ah we've reached "modern music is rubbish that nobody will remember but older stuff is timeless classics that will be remembered forever" territory.

Good job people haven't been saying that for decades, if not longer.

intelligent music for intelligent people such as myself :cool:

music died when I got old smh

was just playing this on yt as i was reading through the thread...

such a beautiful piece of electronic music from the era weve been discussing. does anyone know if the vocal samples in this were originally composed and produced by orbital or did they sample and chop it up?

either way, this sound along with much of saw I and other ambient house / electronica masterpieces of the 90s sound so timeless. 

Vocals from here:

And yeah, absolutely beautiful track. Overall I'd say I prefer early-to-mid '90s melodic stuff to any other era / 'type' of electronic music. But that's just my own formative tastes and nothing to do with one genre or era being better or worse.

  On 12/3/2016 at 2:34 AM, killabyte11 said:

I understand what you're trying to say but addressing a couple of your points - electronic music made now is really no more high tech than then.  The tools are all relatively the same with different interfaces.  Software synthesizers and effects in most instances are cheap imitations of real synthesizers and effects.  Sure anybody can learn how to use a modern DAW and produce tracks but are they any good or just a dime a dozen, mediocre?  Will people still be listening to those tracks in 20 years? you'd be hard pressed to ever recreate some of the sounds of ANY Aphex Twin track ever!  For instance, I don't care what software/ hardware you have....you will never be able to recreate the distorted bass/kick sound of On, start as you mean to go on, 73 yips.  This is one of the things I love most about this music - the element of sound design often times supersedes that of music theory.  Pure sound design/audio sculpture. To me the true essence of underground techno, industrial, house, electro, drum & bass etc...is that it is DIY to the core.  Even more so than punk rock.  Most of the greatest artists in these genre's were not versed in music theory which to me makes for purely inventive music.  RDJ obviously has always had an appreciation/understanding for both melodic and noise elements who is self described as not being traditionally trained in music. 

 

There never really was a big shift from dance floor/live music to bedroom.  The scene never really slowed down and continues to thrive to this day with more diverse artists than ever.  Vinyl pressing plants are 4 to 5 months backed up with orders - meaning that's the minimum wait period if you wanted to press a record tomorrow - most of them independent labels and a lot of excellent stuff coming out.  And that's not even taking the digital releases and Bandcamp into account. Some say it's a second renaissance.  As well there's been a second renaissance of hardware synths, effects, modular. 

RDJ himself has publicly shunned terms like IDM, because by nature - most of this music is intelligent by design.  One either gets it or doesn't. Notice that 90% of his favorites in the Soundcloud track sharing thread are early 90's techno, house drum & bass etc. To many such as myself, great music is timeless.  Take someone like Dave Byrne's music who you mentioned or any number of musicians and producers from the 60's to 90's - whenever.  Do you honestly think there is an equivalent to those artists now in pop music?  Is anybody going to be listening to today's garbage in 30 years?  Highly doubtful.  The artists, producers, engineers who worked on that music are/were masters.  Pop music now is just another over produced throw away product for the consumer culture idiot masses.

Let's take this in sections.  I'm replying in order, so sorry if someone's already addressed any of these points and I haven't read what they've said yet...  Also, even when we're disagreeing, it's a nice conversation!

Heh, now I've caught up with the rest of the thread, I see everyone else already had "you're getting set in your ways" covered. :)  Which is fine, we all do it, just remember you're not being objective.  No one is.

Enjoyed this thread, some good knowledge dropped here. 

  On 12/5/2016 at 9:30 PM, purlieu said:

Vocals from here:

 

And yeah, absolutely beautiful track. Overall I'd say I prefer early-to-mid '90s melodic stuff to any other era / 'type' of electronic music. But that's just my own formative tastes and nothing to do with one genre or era being better or worse.

Oh wow, i had no idea it was this song that was sampled. I know this track, definitely a classic.. wasnt there a version from ATB as well?