the watmm GAS thread

  On 6/22/2023 at 9:26 AM, source_rec said:

can anyone suggest any creative uses for the sp404 mk2?

Use it as a send or insert effect with live input. The SP series workflow is very particular, and suited for very specific use cases. I have an SP-404A, which I got to extend TR-8 with sample playback, but I'm also trying to find ways to work with the SP in other contexts. I have better samplers with better workflows and use cases, so I've been neglecting the SP-404A lately.

  On 6/22/2023 at 9:26 AM, source_rec said:

can anyone suggest any creative uses for the sp404 mk2? i got it and doesn't feel like i'm jelling with the workflow very well - the sequencer is too archaic (after using digitakt) and i find it difficult to use besides as a resampling fx box, which feels like a waste considering how much it costs

Hey, this is something I have some experience with!

FWIW (YMMV, OFC, ETC):

• The sequencer is indeed horrible. The canonical workflow of SP machines is that you resample, that is to say record "sequences" in real time as new samples. If you're good at finger drumming, more power to you. If you're not, there is now, as you have noticed, a sequencer, but it's not very good. It gets better with practice, but it's still a frustrating POS. The step sequencer that was added in recent firmware I haven't used yet, but it doesn't look great.
• Sampling and resampling is quite fast, as is trimming samples. Even chopping is fairly quick. Basic operations such as panning, normalizing and tuning are also super easy.
• The effects are very, very good. Not bread and butter (equalizing a sample is a bit frustrating and the two reverbs are ... characterful) but they can quickly turn pedestrian samples into pure gold. Also, every studio should have the SP303 vinyl sim as an end stage before the final recording.

So yes, it's basically a resampling fx box, as SP machines always have been. The mk2 tacks on a lousy sequencer but that does not change this basic fact.

Whether this means you should keep it is up to you. I had one myself for about six months, decided I didn't really need it because I already had an MPC One, which is in all respects a much, much better device, but ended up buying it again recently because the effects are just that good.

My couch workflow is now to sample into the SP 404 mk 2, usually with effects to rough things up, maybe process a bit further (tuning, trimming, more effects) and then sample the result into an MPC 500 for sequencing. Sometimes I also sample a sequence from the MPC back into the SP 404 for further processing - and then back into the MPC again. Finally, if I decide something is worthy of becoming a track, I sample the sequences from the MPC into the SP404, apply a vinyl sim to the result and record a final track into Ableton.

Whether this works for you, you'll have to figure out for yourself. Me, I like messy, hazy lofi stuff (Basic Channel, for instance, or the LA Beat scene) so for me this works. If you're into cleaner, more precise music, the SP 404 likely isn't for you.
 

Good luck!

  On 6/22/2023 at 9:46 AM, dcom said:

Use it as a send or insert effect with live input. The SP series workflow is very particular, and suited for very specific use cases. I have an SP-404A, which I got to extend TR-8 with sample playback, but I'm also trying to find ways to work with the SP in other contexts. I have better samplers with better workflows and use cases, so I've been neglecting the SP-404A lately.

  On 6/22/2023 at 9:53 AM, Limo said:

Hey, this is something I have some experience with!

FWIW (YMMV, OFC, ETC):

• The sequencer is indeed horrible. The canonical workflow of SP machines is that you resample, that is to say record "sequences" in real time as new samples. If you're good at finger drumming, more power to you. If you're not, there is now, as you have noticed, a sequencer, but it's not very good. It gets better with practice, but it's still a frustrating POS. The step sequencer that was added in recent firmware I haven't used yet, but it doesn't look great.
• Sampling and resampling is quite fast, as is trimming samples. Even chopping is fairly quick. Basic operations such as panning, normalizing and tuning are also super easy.
• The effects are very, very good. Not bread and butter (equalizing a sample is a bit frustrating and the two reverbs are ... characterful) but they can quickly turn pedestrian samples into pure gold. Also, every studio should have the SP303 vinyl sim as an end stage before the final recording.

So yes, it's basically a resampling fx box, as SP machines always have been. The mk2 tacks on a lousy sequencer but that does not change this basic fact.

Whether this means you should keep it is up to you. I had one myself for about six months, decided I didn't really need it because I already had an MPC One, which is in all respects a much, much better device, but ended up buying it again recently because the effects are just that good.

My couch workflow is now to sample into the SP 404 mk 2, usually with effects to rough things up, maybe process a bit further (tuning, trimming, more effects) and then sample the result into an MPC 500 for sequencing. Sometimes I also sample a sequence from the MPC back into the SP 404 for further processing - and then back into the MPC again. Finally, if I decide something is worthy of becoming a track, I sample the sequences from the MPC into the SP404, apply a vinyl sim to the result and record a final track into Ableton.

Whether this works for you, you'll have to figure out for yourself. Me, I like messy, hazy loft stuff (Basic Channel, for instance, or the LA Beat scene) so for me this works. If you're into cleaner, more precise music, the SP 404 likely isn't for you.
 

Good luck!

Expand  

thanks! yeah i found that the saturator, the vinyl and cassette sims as well as the pitch shifter in the djfx looper are super nice to generate more interesting samples from otherwise mediocre material; i guess i'm somewhat happy to keep it just for that, i was just worried that i may not be using it to its full potential lol

i currently have it set up to receive mono input from my 2nd headphone out of the audio interface for quick sampling and then back in on playback, maybe some more workflow optimization is in order

DFAM is the best designed drum machine I've ever played with. Does the Edge sound as raw? 

  On 6/22/2023 at 11:20 AM, flacid said:

DFAM is the best designed drum machine I've ever played with. Does the Edge sound as raw? 

Yes, there are only minor differences, mainly the filter type (Moog ladder vs. CEM) and VCA decay length (at max Edge 10 sec, DFAM 21 sec). Edge has selectable types of noise (pink/white), otherwise they're the same and sound the same, physical layout notwithstanding.

Ridiculous timbral possibilities for £150. Look forward to getting one and messing around with it via midi. 

Just wish it wasn't so fucking ugly... 

  On 6/22/2023 at 11:57 AM, flacid said:

Ridiculous timbral possibilities for £150. Look forward to getting one and messing around with it via midi. 

Just wish it wasn't so fucking ugly... 

wtf were they thinking? the wooden sides and that weird pink are a horrible combination.. behringer really needs to up their design game jesus

  On 6/22/2023 at 11:57 AM, flacid said:

Look forward to getting one and messing around with it via midi. 

You can't directly do the same things directly with MIDI that the built-in sequencer does, you'll have to have a seq with gate/CV outs or a MIDI-to-CV converter and do mults to get even close, see Starsky Carr's video below. I've just tried out how the Torso T-1 can sequence the Edge via direct gate/CV outs, it's difficult to get to the same level of grit, groove and drive as the built-in sequencer, which is a shame because 8 steps is not enough. It'll take some work to get what I want out of the Edge with an outboard sequencer, but that's part of the fun, right?

  On 6/22/2023 at 11:57 AM, flacid said:

Just wish it wasn't so fucking ugly... 

Who cares? Get an overlay.

  On 6/22/2023 at 1:18 PM, dcom said:

You can't directly do the same things directly with MIDI that the built-in sequencer does, you'll have to have a seq with gate/CV outs or a MIDI-to-CV converter and do mults to get even close, see Starsky Carr's video below. I've just tried out how the Torso T-1 can sequence the Edge via direct gate/CV outs, it's difficult to get to the same level of grit, groove and drive as the built-in sequencer, which is a shame because 8 steps is not enough. It'll take some work to get what I want out of the Edge with an outboard sequencer, but that's part of the fun, right?

 

Who cares? Get an overlay.

Expand  

having to get an overlay because your synth is so ugly is a bit odd.. why not tell behringer, who cares about pink, just make it black

  On 6/22/2023 at 1:29 PM, chronical said:

why not tell behringer, who cares about pink, just make it black

they can’t make normal decisions like that because they have to try and make the design look different for if/when they’re sued about so directly copying an existing instrument.

  On 6/22/2023 at 1:18 PM, dcom said:

You can't directly do the same things directly with MIDI that the built-in sequencer does, you'll have to have a seq with gate/CV outs or a MIDI-to-CV converter and do mults to get even close, see Starsky Carr's video below. I've just tried out how the Torso T-1 can sequence the Edge via direct gate/CV outs, it's difficult to get to the same level of grit, groove and drive as the built-in sequencer, which is a shame because 8 steps is not enough. It'll take some work to get what I want out of the Edge with an outboard sequencer, but that's part of the fun, right?

 

Who cares? Get an overlay.

Expand  

Thanks for the information on midi sequencing... The sequencer on the original DFAM does have a great groove to it and I experimented with it's timing possibilities via CV/modular and it worked to some degree but lost it's uniqueness. Maybe I'll end up sampling this. 

The overlays are actually very nice but I resent having to buy one! Funny how someone can make a living making Behringer synths/drum machines look better. 

  On 5/30/2023 at 10:25 AM, dcom said:

There is a second hand unit available for 850 € from someone I've already bough a Modal Argon from, so I guess I'll have jump on it.

I finally pulled the trigger after trawling through what YT had to to offer on Peak, looking forward to spending quality time with it while on vacation. It's deep, probably not as deep as Hydrasynth, but enough to keep me entertained for a good while. I've been going through the presets, it's a well-rounded piece of kit.

Oh, and the Sonicware Texture Lab is a fine box of plastic lo-fi granular wankery. 1010music Nanobox Lemondrop is a level up, compared. Maybe Tasty Chips GR-1 next?

Anyone have a Vermona DRM1 MKIII (or other version)? Feelings, opinions, views? It seems like a big boy drum machine and one would need to grow a few extra appendages to work it properly, but I'm hankering for an affordable second hand MKIII.

Just jumped on a good deal for an Octatrack MK1.

Any tips on how to approach this thing. I've used the Digitone so I know how the sequencing and parameter lock stuff works.

Don't even think about using external clock with it.

If you want to play from a record buffer and record to it at the same time, you need to nudge the play trig so that it's at least one tick behind the record trig, otherwiseit will be unreliable or not work at all

You can make an internal feedback loop (or a global effect send) by setting cue as the source for a thru or flex machine.

Read this, even if you're familiar with their later instruments.

Also, if you use a Mac don't keep the Octatrack's USB port connected to it when you aren't actually transferring stuff to and from the card - it will crash unpredictably and generally be unreliable.  Works fine connected to Windows machines (and Linux as far as I know) though, it's jsut MacOS that causes problems.

And don't feed it after midnight.

  On 7/3/2023 at 4:33 AM, TubularCorporation said:

Also, if you use a Mac don't keep the Octatrack's USB port connected to it when you aren't actually transferring stuff to and from the card - it will crash unpredictably and generally be unreliable.  Works fine connected to Windows machines (and Linux as far as I know) though, it's jsut MacOS that causes problems.

 

And don't feed it after midnight.

Haha thank you. I'm also assuming I shouldn't give it water and keep it out of the sun

  On 7/2/2023 at 11:56 PM, Danny O Flannagin said:

Just jumped on a good deal for an Octatrack MK1.

Any tips on how to approach this thing. I've used the Digitone so I know how the sequencing and parameter lock stuff works.

If you run out of ideas, from my own experience I can suggest that most gear is pretty good for using as a laptop stand. Maybe the OT has too many knobs for this, so it's only good for the occasional iPad or smartphone?

  On 7/2/2023 at 11:56 PM, Danny O Flannagin said:

Just jumped on a good deal for an Octatrack MK1.

Any tips on how to approach this thing. I've used the Digitone so I know how the sequencing and parameter lock stuff works.

update the firmware for sure. Some good quality of life updates like being able to copy/paste/edit multiple trigs.

I would say, don't try to learn every feature at once, just try to figure out what you want to do and then learn what is needed to do that efficiently. Theres still stuff I've barely learned how to use. I've mostly just stuck to sequencing breaks and midi and don't really use scenes that much. i just p lock effects and copy paste patterns and pages and futher edit them and have fun basically. I usually have to look up how to actually sample into it, but I do that sometimes too. Some will recommend merlins guide, but for some reason that never really clicked with my mental model of the thing. So if merlin's guide isn't answering your question, try the manual, it's not as incomprehensible as people say it is.

What sort of music are you planning to make with the Octatrack? It used to be my sequencing 'hub' for all my hardware, the external sequencer is underrated and its timing is excellent. 

I found this guys channel interesting for more technical/generative stuff > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDdxA2aDv8w&list=PLwc8ITzX9he5bJn9joo3BzgwfO7B-ccXn - Although that was before you could do it easily in Ableton so it might be old hat now. 

  On 7/4/2023 at 5:36 AM, Bubba69 said:

update the firmware for sure. Some good quality of life updates like being able to copy/paste/edit multiple trigs.

Yeah, this is extra true if it hasn't been updated since the MKII came out, because the first firmware update with the MKII added a lot of really good stuff. I can't imagine going back to not having pattern length per track.

  On 7/4/2023 at 10:43 AM, flacid said:

What sort of music are you planning to make with the Octatrack? It used to be my sequencing 'hub' for all my hardware, the external sequencer is underrated and its timing is excellent. 

I found this guys channel interesting for more technical/generative stuff > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDdxA2aDv8w&list=PLwc8ITzX9he5bJn9joo3BzgwfO7B-ccXn - Although that was before you could do it easily in Ableton so it might be old hat now. 

 

 

Expand  

Wanting to use it to capture melodic content from my eurorack to make ambient/glitchy stuff. Chopping up arpeggios and such. Really intrigued with its sort of "on the fly" recording capabilities that I think is lacking in a lot of other samplers.

Thanks for the video, I'll check it out

Yeah, the Octatrack is very good for that sort of stuff. Love the ability to sequence effects at different meters on it as well. The channel I sent over is good for specific ideas but also for allowing you to think about what the Octatrack is really capable of. Good luck dude