the watmm GAS thread

  On 6/26/2018 at 11:52 PM, Joyrex said:

I have a new office chair with a mesh seat that absolutely does not absorb the gas

http://www.flat-d.com/chairpadblack.html

Wow, first time opening this thread, I always thought it was a super-long-running discussion of Wolfgang Voigt's music 

  On 6/26/2018 at 10:43 PM, RSP said:

Nice find!  Tape delay is the best, I got an RE-150 in nonworking condition for next to nothing years ago and repaired it.  One of the most indispensable pieces of gear I've ever owned and worth every bit of hassle, I'd get rid of almost anything else before I got rid of it. And I'm also a fan of a lot of plugins, ITB stuff can sound great but nothing I've used responds like the real thing even though there's plenty of software (and digital hardware) that's just as useful in its own way.

Ah, nice! The RE's will forever be the reference point for tape delays so comparing the echocord to it is probably pointless but I hope I'll be able to see it as its own thing and not constantly compare it to the roland sound.

Was it a big repair? This will be my first actual vintage piece in a long time (not counting a simple sds200 module) but it's been completely serviced and a bunch of new tape loops are included.

  On 6/27/2018 at 11:28 PM, user said:

 

  On 6/26/2018 at 10:43 PM, RSP said:

Nice find!  Tape delay is the best, I got an RE-150 in nonworking condition for next to nothing years ago and repaired it.  One of the most indispensable pieces of gear I've ever owned and worth every bit of hassle, I'd get rid of almost anything else before I got rid of it. And I'm also a fan of a lot of plugins, ITB stuff can sound great but nothing I've used responds like the real thing even though there's plenty of software (and digital hardware) that's just as useful in its own way.

 

Ah, nice! The RE's will forever be the reference point for tape delays so comparing the echocord to it is probably pointless but I hope I'll be able to see it as its own thing and not constantly compare it to the roland sound.

 

Was it a big repair? This will be my first actual vintage piece in a long time (not counting a simple sds200 module) but it's been completely serviced and a bunch of new tape loops are included.

 

More a long series of ongoing small repairs.  It didn't make any sound when I got it, and was missing the lid, the knobs, the nuts that held the lid onto the tape bin, the leaf spring was all crumpled up and the metal plate that covers the heads.  Putting in new tape, flattening the leaf spring and aligning the heads got it more or less working, and it was fine for a few years but then the pinch roller finally started to go so I replaced that, eventually Echofix started making replacement nuts for the lit so I got some of those to replace the awkward little off-the-shelf nuts I was using, and I eventually replaced the leaf spring.

It was still giving me some trouble, recently but I figured out that what was happening was that since I was making my own tape loops there was no empty plastic box in the spot where you'd normally put the box that commercial loops come in.  That was never an issue before but recently the reel of tape I make loops from seems to have picked up a lot of static electricity, and what was happening was that sometimes some tape would get down in the spot where the empty loop box should have been and because of the static it would sometimes cling aroun a little nylon bushing down there just enough that it would make the tape slow down a little or occasionally jam it.  I stuck a piece of stiff foam where the empty loop box should be and while I was at it I rotated all of the guides in the tape path so that the tape runs on parts that don't ahve 30 years of wear on them, and it's working the best it has ever worked now, but these things are always an ongoing project.  I'm just dreading the day whe the heads get too worn and need to be relapped or worse.

The RE-150 is the most low end Space Echo, for the record.  No chorus, no reverb, and only two playback heads instead of four, but it does the job and it was cheap.

My unit is an Ableton Live rack from a "how to make a dub delay" tutorial I found many years ago. There is a used Space Echo pedal on sale, but I am too much ITB with my sounds to be able to route things outside enough. This is probably not good for vintage aesthetics.

I have been GASing for a M-Audio Keystation 88 that's on CL, but I just got my desk sorted and the thing is so huge that I might just pass. One day I will get a "real" keyboard but I feel it has to be either some more sturdy hammer action thing (while the Keystation is a cheap piece of plastic) or come with an attached synthesizer already (like the Yamaha V50 which is also on CL, but I don't have room for either).

Last summer I got an  Audio Keystation 44 and a Novation Remote Mini at a thrift shop, and sold the Kystation to cover the cost of both so I could end up with a free controller.

The Novation is pretty solid for the price they go for, and I wouldn't feel ripped off if I had bought it new.  Decent synth action, pretty good velocity and aftertouch response, reasonable pads and encoders and pitch/mod wheels.

The M Audio was one of the nastier keybeds I've ever had my hands on, I've used Casiotones that played better.

I think they sold for roughly the same price when they were new.

I had an MBox 3 for a while (I had to get Pro Tools for work and it was about 30% cheaper to buy a new old stock Pro Tools 8 + MBox bundle with a free upgrade path than to get Pro Tools 10 on its own) and it was pretty crap, too.  Can't say I'd really recommend anything M Audio, at least no if it was made in the last decade or so since Avid bought them.

I have the m-audio m-track one and it's great for what it is, basically just a big volume control for my monitors.

  On 6/28/2018 at 2:43 AM, RSP said:

Last summer I got an  Audio Keystation 44 and a Novation Remote Mini at a thrift shop, and sold the Kystation to cover the cost of both so I could end up with a free controller.

 

The Novation is pretty solid for the price they go for, and I wouldn't feel ripped off if I had bought it new.  Decent synth action, pretty good velocity and aftertouch response, reasonable pads and encoders and pitch/mod wheels.

 

The M Audio was one of the nastier keybeds I've ever had my hands on, I've used Casiotones that played better.

 

I think they sold for roughly the same price when they were new.

 

I had an MBox 3 for a while (I had to get Pro Tools for work and it was about 30% cheaper to buy a new old stock Pro Tools 8 + MBox bundle with a free upgrade path than to get Pro Tools 10 on its own) and it was pretty crap, too.  Can't say I'd really recommend anything M Audio, at least no if it was made in the last decade or so since Avid bought them.

Yeah my spider-sense also tells me that even though the M-Audio is cheap and gets me 88 keys and also some neat program change facilities, in the end it will be a cheap piece of plastic that will leave me wanting. I should just stop by some brick & mortar place to just play on different keybeds, no point in replacing one cheapo with another. Besides the Korg Microkey I have now is ideal for having 61 keys on my cramped desk anyways.

Thanks a lot for the advice!

I had an old Oxygen 8 for a long time and it always worked fine and was pretty solid even though the keys were a little squishy.  The stuff I've had bad experiences with were from after Avid bought them.  The MBox would have been fine if it was a budget interface, but at the price point they were aiming for it was not good.  Also it drew so much power from USB that it couldn't even supply phantom power when it was plugged in to some USB ports I tried.

Anyhow, don't take my advice TOO seriusly, I haven't tried a very wide range of modern keyboard controllers, I've been using 90s ROMplers for ages because they usually have really good keybeds and until recently they were cheaper than all but the most low budget dedicated MIDI controllers.

But I can definitely say that for what they cost used (the one I have seemed to go for like $60-$70 tops when I found it about a year and a half ago) those Novations are really nice.

A friend of mine who teaches (and tunes/services) piano had a sub $200 USB piano action keyboard he swore by but I'd have to text him to remember what it was.

I have owned a Novation Nocturn 25 key keyboard a while back - I really liked the keys there as well even though the rest of it was bulky as hell and not even close to fitting in my backpack (which to me is the benchmark for small 25 key knobby controllers), so I sold it. 

Speaking of 90s ROMplers though, today I saw a Yamaha CS2x on CL, which is something that might almost fit my desk physical-dimension-wise - although the 85cm MicroKey is already a very snug fit, I am pretty sure I can make room for the CS2x (even though the internet tells me it's roughly twice the height - not a surprise on Yamaha synths). However the internet also says that it's got a synth action keyboard, which I am guessing is not even semi-weighted?

RSP, if you ever get to know what sort of keyboard your friend likes, would be nice to know. I think having a good weighted keyboard is something I will definitely be interested in having as I seem to like playing with dynamics.

I had a CS1x and it was surprisingly nice sounding and got some usable things out of it when I first started but on the whole nothing to write home about and pretty clumsy interface. Very flimsy feel overall and light clattery keybed which for some things was cool. CS2x can't be much different I imagine. The AN1x is the same too but the engine is far better and a really decent synth soundwise.

If you get it, don't pay much. people are trying to drive the price on these things hard. I gave my CS1x away to a kid rather than sell it, kind of embarrassed asking money for it.

Found a Roland 100M modular on sale on Yahoo Auctions. It probably needs a lot of fixing, but what a way to get into modular.. https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r253068138

Thanks for the input on the CS2X, Chesney. I'm probably not going to get it although it is cheap enough for me - just around 220 dollars for both a synth and a good keyboard (assuming the keybed is good) is in my regular gear budget, athough I decided to go on Yahoo Auctions to check if there's any better deals.

I would take a punt if it was 100 dollars but not 220. It's the kind of synth that if you literally had no money to buy any more gear and this was your only synth you could totally learn it inside out and get all you need from it but if you have other gear and this is just another synth then you'd use it a couple of times then it will sit taking up space.

  On 6/29/2018 at 3:00 PM, thawkins said:

Found a Roland 100M modular on sale on Yahoo Auctions. It probably needs a lot of fixing, but what a way to get into modular.. https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r253068138

 I used to teach at a small place in London that had one and it was fucking lush.  The frequency response was gorgeous.  Definitely on my list of things I'd automatically buy given the chance.

  On 6/29/2018 at 3:17 PM, Chesney said:

I would take a punt if it was 100 dollars but not 220. It's the kind of synth that if you literally had no money to buy any more gear and this was your only synth you could totally learn it inside out and get all you need from it but if you have other gear and this is just another synth then you'd use it a couple of times then it will sit taking up space.

Yea I found a 76 key Roland A-33 for like 10 bucks starting bid so I'll just see if that is any good. I have no interest in getting into yet another synth and I am running out of physical inputs anyways. Just wanted a keyboard with better keys for my large butterfingers and also those sweet sweet dynamics.

  On 6/30/2018 at 12:46 AM, b born droid said:

 

  On 6/29/2018 at 3:00 PM, thawkins said:

Found a Roland 100M modular on sale on Yahoo Auctions. It probably needs a lot of fixing, but what a way to get into modular.. https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r253068138

 I used to teach at a small place in London that had one and it was fucking lush.  The frequency response was gorgeous.  Definitely on my list of things I'd automatically buy given the chance.

 

Yeah it seems something like only a dumbass would pass. If it ends up going for dirt cheap (under 100 bucks) then I figure even having it professionally repaired by the guys at Five G is still going to be cheap enough to make it worth it. I wonder if it's compatible with Eurorack...

Some of the prices on stuff I've seen on Yahoo Japan since you drew it to my attention are starting to make me have GAS for a good size 120v-100v stepdown transformer.

Thawkins, does your dub rack include sending a return to itself? I made a pretty good one with mod that makes me pretty happy. Just a delay, hpf, lfo, and limiter. All the magic happens when you send it to itself, plus the analog modeling filters add good color.

  On 7/2/2018 at 4:13 AM, sheathe said:

Thawkins, does your dub rack include sending a return to itself? I made a pretty good one with mod that makes me pretty happy. Just a delay, hpf, lfo, and limiter. All the magic happens when you send it to itself, plus the analog modeling filters add good color.

Yeah.  Off the top of my head, what I have is a utility gain, saturator, ping pong delay, auto filter (modeled band pass + lfo), compressor and I have it feeding back both in the delay itself and also the whole chain is feeding back to itself. However I use it almost everywhere, even to just widen the stereo image of an instrument and this is probably not the correct way to use a dub delay. Or maybe I am just overthinking it. :) 

Best way to widen is pop on a 100% wet simple delay with zero feedback and L R delay times of 1ms and 10ms

The bigger the gap the wider it gets, until you start to hear the delay eventually.

Thanks, will try this tip out. In general it seems that I tend to use effects with LFO controlled filters or something that can generate some slow sweeping motion. It just occurred to me that maybe I need to broaden my palette a bit. 

As long as you don't care about mono compatibility, you could mess with the late 70s Carver "sonic holography" effect.  Basically, you want to duplicate the stereo track you're widening, flip the stereo image and invert the phase, then delay it a few MS (in the Haas effect range, so less than 35ms, I think 8-15 is kind of the sweet spot but I've only used an off-brand Carver clone from the early 80s for this, never actually set it up in software, so I don't have exact numbers) and you have an idealized version of the effect.  You'll probably want to high-pass the delayed track a bit, and then if you want to make it sound more authentically like old hardware, you could also lowpass it a bit and add just a tiny bit of distortion - the earliest implementations used BBD chips and part of their charm as a mixing tool i that they don't actually work perfectly.

The up-side is that if you use headphones or sit in the sweet spot of your speakers, and the material you processed this way works with the effect (that's down to trial and error, some stuff just sounds BAD) then it absolutely will sound like the stereo image as around 25%-30% wider than your actual speakers, and it can be really impressive.  The downside (and this is true of simple HAAS delay too, but not nearly as bad) is if you're anywhere other than the sweet spot it will probably just sound weird and phasey and narrow.  Also it will most definitely NOT be mono compatible anymore.  But it's a cool effect, more so if you use it in the "wrong" ways (I like sticking it before a stereo reverb, so that all of the inverted, delayed material gets smeared around in the reverb and you get all kinds of subtle chorusing and phase cancellation effects that are completely unpredictable.

This stuff was originally invented to use in your stereo on entire mixes and it can sound cool on the right material but also kind of ruins the mix from most listening positions.  If you use it on one track in a mix as an effect then it's a lot more interesting and the negatives are a lot less serious.  Stereo chorus can cause the same kinds of problems but you don't hear anyone complaining about that (unless they don't like chorus).

The original analog boxes are really cheap (Mine's an Omnisonix 801 Omnisonic Imager that I got for $7 at a record shop, which is unusually cheap but they're still not expensive at all) and if you have the hardware you can hook it up to your stereo and just leave it there to piss off any audiophiles who you might accidentally invite into your home, it's like garlic to vampires for them.

Another thing that works well, and is a lot simpler, that I use a lot (much more than the stuff I just described) is to use a simple, free M/S adjustment plugin (like Voxengo MSED (what I usually use) or Airwindows Everytrim or whatever is bundled with your DAW) on your main reverb send BEFORE the reverb, turn the MID signal down a few dB and maybe turn the SIDE up a bit too.  You end up with a wider reverb sound without actually having to process the reverb itself in any way, and it usually lets you use more of it (and lower the highpass cutoff a bit if you're like me and almost always highpass your reverb sends before they hit the reverb itself) without the mix sounding muddy, plus the reverb sounds wider.  With signals that have a lot of panning, there's even a kind of subtle 3d effect, where the farther from center the sound is, the more reverb it gets, so it moves forward in the mix as it moves toward the center.