Nine dead in fire at 100% Silk party in Oakland

  On 12/11/2016 at 6:12 AM, darreichungsform said:

That's sad news but nothing extraordinary. No disrespect to the dead. But how many people die in Aleppo everyday? How many people die in Nigeria war and nobody cares?

The world is a terrible place sometimes

There's nothing stopping you from making a thread about other tragedies and staying the hell out of this one.

  Quote

i'm suggesting that whoever is responsible should be held accountable.

it sounds like a complete clusterfuck

A landlord who is fine with tripping out and not saying to the tenants that they should not fill the place with wood, carpets, butane tanks, while hosting a party with stairs made of pallets with no fire exits while keeping the main exit blocked with a weird maze like construction & a tight staircase to top it all off.

Not saying these people deserved to die, but that place was a fucking deathtrap

  On 12/13/2016 at 7:52 PM, Phoenix Manifest said:

 

  Quote

i'm suggesting that whoever is responsible should be held accountable.

 

it sounds like a complete clusterfuck

 

A landlord who is fine with tripping out and not saying to the tenants that they should not fill the place with wood, carpets, butane tanks, while hosting a party with stairs made of pallets with no fire exits while keeping the main exit blocked with a weird maze like construction & a tight staircase to top it all off.

 

Not saying these people deserved to die, but that place was a fucking deathtrap

 

Responsibility of landlords is kind of a grey area in a lot of cases.... For example you can rent out a house but might not have a clear cut responsibility to ensure the place is not a meth lab (only analogy I can come up with at the moment).

But if you as a landlord know the place is used in an unsafe way then you have other obligations. The 1st problem being that the courts would need to prove that a reasonable person would have to have known that the use was unsafe. The 2nd problem is to prove that the person in question was in fact reasonable. This second problem is where I think the landlord in this case would get off. His conduct/demeanor, response to the media, all suggest that he would not pass the reasonable person test.

edit: I'm no expert or anything that's just the way I'm taking it...

  On 12/11/2016 at 6:12 AM, darreichungsform said:

That's sad news but nothing extraordinary. No disrespect to the dead. But how many people die in Aleppo everyday? How many people die in Nigeria war and nobody cares?

The world is a terrible place sometimes

So all lives matter is what you're say?

  On 12/13/2016 at 8:10 PM, SPD² said:

 

  On 12/11/2016 at 6:12 AM, darreichungsform said:

That's sad news but nothing extraordinary. No disrespect to the dead. But how many people die in Aleppo everyday? How many people die in Nigeria war and nobody cares?

The world is a terrible place sometimes

So all lives matter is what you're say?

 

What an epiphany! lol

  On 12/13/2016 at 7:56 PM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

 

  On 12/13/2016 at 7:52 PM, Phoenix Manifest said:

 

  Quote

i'm suggesting that whoever is responsible should be held accountable.

 

it sounds like a complete clusterfuck

 

A landlord who is fine with tripping out and not saying to the tenants that they should not fill the place with wood, carpets, butane tanks, while hosting a party with stairs made of pallets with no fire exits while keeping the main exit blocked with a weird maze like construction & a tight staircase to top it all off.

 

Not saying these people deserved to die, but that place was a fucking deathtrap

 

 

Responsibility of landlords is kind of a grey area in a lot of cases.... For example you can rent out a house but might not have a clear cut responsibility to ensure the place is not a meth lab (only analogy I can come up with at the moment).

 

But if you as a landlord know the place is used in an unsafe way then you have other obligations. The 1st problem being that the courts would need to prove that a reasonable person would have to have known that the use was unsafe. The 2nd problem is to prove that the person in question was in fact reasonable. This second problem is where I think the landlord in this case would get off. His conduct/demeanor, response to the media, all suggest that he would not pass the reasonable person test.

 

edit: I'm no expert or anything that's just the way I'm taking it...

 

Yeh, i posted that wrong. The landlord was a complete tripper and did not take his responsibility, but the folks in question could've used their damned heads to know that their place wasn't firesafe. Hard lesson learned for all involved (and hopefully a lesson for others as well).

Drawing comparison in tragedy is hardly useful and it's not about numbers. Collection of young creative people perish in a horrific manner midst of a joyous event- yeh that's extraordinary. By all means continue to minimize people's response to loss tho.

It definitely has me thinking about places I visit.

I partied at a club in Lima a few years back (aptly named "Club Help") that in retrospect was exactly this kind of place. There was no less than 1400 people there, I swear.  Only one exit.

This whole thing is really sad. :(

'Run The Length Of Your Wildness' which is the night that Cherushii and Roche of 100% Silk have run for prob nearly two year now, had a beautiful heeling love fest, full of hugs, smiles, drinks, remembering, and dancing, last night after going dark last Mon (as its a weekly). It was much needed. So happy to see so many survivors and their friends. <3

ive been thiking about the landlord this past few days. Im not sure if he is to be held responsible or not.

I find it very sad in which condition this guy, trying to escape the "system", ends up being in deep trouble (if not legal, moral ones).

the landlord is clearly not the most responsible guy around. not sure when negligence is considered criminal in the USA...

what a nightmare for the victims, some of them high and even maybe some high off psychedelics. can you imagine tripping on mushroom and trying to escape a fire?

RIP

  On 12/14/2016 at 3:55 AM, Ayya Khema said:

ive been thiking about the landlord this past few days. Im not sure if he is to be held responsible or not.

 

I find it very sad in which condition this guy, trying to escape the "system", ends up being in deep trouble (if not legal, moral ones).

the landlord is clearly not the most responsible guy around. not sure when negligence is considered criminal in the USA...

 

what a nightmare for the victims, some of them high and even maybe some high off psychedelics. can you imagine tripping on mushroom and trying to escape a fire?

 

RIP

if you're a landlord and leasing a place out, and the conditions of the place isn't safe because of direct action the landlord is taking and dodging responsibility in getting safety permits, stealing electricity, not having safe fire exits etc. ... i'm just curious how it's not his responsibility ? 

like, i've been to dodgy parties before. but normally in more abandoned warehouse scenarios where its totally on >me< to enter the place and take that risk. i totally get that. but like, when its someone whos accepting money from people to live in a shared space but is actively not taking steps to ensure safety. 

i duno. 

This sounds like a nightmare :( that station nightclub fire vid should be compulsory viewing for anyone responsible for a space that puts on parties

  On 12/14/2016 at 3:55 AM, Ayya Khema said:

ive been thiking about the landlord this past few days. Im not sure if he is to be held responsible or not.

 

I find it very sad in which condition this guy, trying to escape the "system", ends up being in deep trouble (if not legal, moral ones).

the landlord is clearly not the most responsible guy around. not sure when negligence is considered criminal in the USA...

 

what a nightmare for the victims, some of them high and even maybe some high off psychedelics. can you imagine tripping on mushroom and trying to escape a fire?

 

RIP

He's 100% responsible. He was also warned many, many times about all of the hazards and violations he had and chose to ignore all of them. The fire extinguishers there did not work either, which the fire fighters determined would have most likely stopped the initial fire in the first place.

There's also a follow up article about how him and his girlfriend lost their toddler recently to child protection services after the kid ate and swallowed a used condom at one of their sex parties at the ghost ship.

The wrong people died in that fire. It should have been him. He's in that "Peter Pan" demographic of 40-50 year olds that still act like children.

he was a Burning Man fan after all

Overloaded Electrical System Seen as Cause:

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/12/oakland-warehouse-fire-overloaded-electrical-system-seen-as-cause/

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After ruling out arson, electrical engineers have looked hard at the art collective’s power sources — an ad hoc network of extension cords stretched through a maze of small dwelling units and studios, all fed from one line coming through a hole punched in the wall to a neighboring business, a person familiar with the wiring has said. Sources, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the investigation, said investigators may not be able to identify a specific appliance or device that overloaded the system. ATF officials ruled out a refrigerator, which was previously reported as a possible cause.

that'll do it.

  On 12/15/2016 at 1:37 AM, Braintree said:

 

Overloaded Electrical System Seen as Cause:

 

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/12/oakland-warehouse-fire-overloaded-electrical-system-seen-as-cause/

 

 

 

  Quote

After ruling out arson, electrical engineers have looked hard at the art collective’s power sources — an ad hoc network of extension cords stretched through a maze of small dwelling units and studios, all fed from one line coming through a hole punched in the wall to a neighboring business, a person familiar with the wiring has said. Sources, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the investigation, said investigators may not be able to identify a specific appliance or device that overloaded the system. ATF officials ruled out a refrigerator, which was previously reported as a possible cause.

 

Jesus.

I recommend reading the entire article, but this part is interesting as well:

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Jake Jacobitz, who performed electrical work at the warehouse and occasionally stayed there, said breakers at the collective blew out often and Almena would install his own electrical boxes.

“The property owner (received) the bill, so she would come to the artists; she would come to the mechanics shop; and she would come to the other little shops,” Gallo said last week. “She would say based on the bill I got, you owe $200 this month, you owe me $300 and based on the bill, you owe $50.”

Pacific Gas and Electric officials said last week the utility reviewed a decade of records and found no reports of power theft or anomalies.

I saw that. So it sounds like it's not just the landlord to be held responsible.

rip