Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

  On 6/30/2019 at 9:13 AM, doorjamb said:

1. Bernie has the best shot of any of them vs Trump, hands down.

This is based on nothing but sugar plumb fairies 

  On 6/30/2019 at 5:32 PM, Candiru said:

This is based on nothing but sugar plumb fairies 

i'm not sure bernie has the best shot.. only if a bunch of young people come out to vote.. even then.. not sure. also, biden still polling above the rest. i think most democrats are actually older centrist types. until young people actually become the powerful voting block they can be it's gonna be centrist dems winning out. 

but it really is a bit hard to say. warren is gaining steam with all kinds of voters. remember.. clinton got 3 million more votes than trump but lost those few key places and that was that. 

it's going to be a tight election any way ya cut it. but we've got plenty of time for all kinds of bullshit to happen. 

  On 6/30/2019 at 5:23 PM, ignatius said:

she was a prosecutor and was "tough on crime" type of prosecutor.  she's no wall flower. she's presenting herself as way more left than her prosecutor record would indicate.  she has as much baggage as Biden

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/23/18184192/kamala-harris-president-campaign-criminal-justice-record

anyway.. here's nepotism barbi trying to needle her way in

 

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Ivanka wanted to discuss the immigration crisis in countries like Such As

(I like how they pretty much ignore her)

will she be the next sec of defense??

I'm not quite the Harris skeptic as some other far left folks, I agree a lot of supporters are naive about her. That said even cynics have pointed out that she can help absorb a lot of Biden supporters and, again this is cynical / superficial AF, she's a non-white female with an appealing background with a bit (albeit not much) more charisma than HRC had. She's a good person to have in the race.

I'm not a ride or die Bernie supporter but I'm rooting for him and I'm getting pretty defensive of those who claim he isn't viable. He's literally one of the most coherent, consistent, and honest politicians to run in decades. His aloof nature and stereotypical far left accusations haven't really stuck at all because he's about as scandal free as it gets. He's literally leading the push back from the Democratic party's decades long shift to complacent "bipartisanship" and this very long gradual move of "centrism" in US politics to what is objectively a right-wing default as "moderate." Trumps ascension marked the tail-end of decades long shift of the GOP from any "big tent" notions, they've shed off any moderates or independents. It's been something started with Reagan, shifted further with Bush and then the tea party. So right now we have a openly far right-wing populist pandering corporate party on one side and a centre-right liberal party that throws a bone or two to progressive issues on the other. My pipedream would be a coaltion majority of Social Democrats and the more moderate Dems (which could include former sensible Republicans) versus a minority GOP, but we'll see. 

  On 6/30/2019 at 5:02 PM, Rubin Farr said:

This got cartoonist Michael DeAdder fired.

that speaks volumes, apparently he was on contract but still

https://www.dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2019/06/29/brunswick-news-inc-cancels-michael-de-adder/

  On 6/30/2019 at 5:02 PM, Rubin Farr said:

This got cartoonist Michael DeAdder fired.

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Wow

That *is* harsh though. No matter how you feel about Trump.

I'm considering changing my voter registration from Green to Dem. Bernie is still my top choice of candidate with Tulsi as a close second, but I'm beginning to think that probability won't be on their side in the end. Not really fond of Biden, but I'd imagine he wouldn't be that much different from former president Clinton in terms of being a Blue Dog. Harris and Warren are likely to be among the top contenders too, and I'm not ruling out voting for either one if one of them did indeed come out as the primary winner a year from now.

This goes without saying, but main thing is that Trump has to go.

  On 6/30/2019 at 6:04 PM, joshuatxuk said:

I'm not a ride or die Bernie supporter but I'm rooting for him and I'm getting pretty defensive of those who claim he isn't viable. He's literally one of the most coherent, consistent, and honest politicians to run in decades. 

I'm not on the Sanders bandwagon. Even though I do think he got robbed the last time against Clinton. But his honesty is not much better than your average politician, imo. It surprises me how easy he gets away with things. Really. His comments about the healthcare system and how those work in Europe are mostly self serving garbage, for instance. If people really start to believe in that single payer stuff, he's digging his own grave as it just wont work like that. The best option is to improve on the current ACA. But instead of supporting it, he plays a political game by going into the other extreme. As a counter balance to the GOP.

So yeah, he's either honest and not too bright, or dishonest and people don't see.

i'm hoping the ideas of bernie and warren etc are crystalized and become the democratic platform. i'm not throwing bernie under the bus.. i just want someone to beat trump and of course i'd like a true progressive and seasoned, effective politician who knows the system etc. bernie has been a guy w/the same message for pretty much is whole career. he's an outsider who's message resonated and put him in the eye of the mainstream. these are all good things. i think sanders/warren or warren/harris or sanders/booker or whatever combination of 2 people who balance each other out will be effective in the general election. i just don't want anyone to under estimate trump. i'm not sure bernie could've beaten trump in 2016 but it's not something i think about too much. 

i like kamala harris but i think she's more centrist than she let's on.. that's probably true of some of the others as well. 

we need someone shrewd and savy especially in the general election. obama picking biden as a running mate was a very shrewd decision in 2008. 

regarding registering w/a party.. i registered as independent like 20 years ago. 

States vary a lot regarding party registration. In Texas you have to declare one and stick with it the primary, runoffs, etc. until the next cycle. This is the first election I won't vote in the GOP primary - I used to for various reasons....voted for Ron Paul back in my  early 20 something libertarian days, then moderate GOP local and state candidates in primaries. In 2016 I wanted to vote for a Republican, Jerry Patterson, running against George P Bush in the land commissioner office. It's a niche office related to my work in land surveying and Bush has been so contentious that Jerry Patterson ultimately endorsed his Democrat opponent for the general election. This year I'm too invested in the Dems. The GOP primaries are pretty much stacked with far right nuts and/or lobbyist shrills and 2018's turnout indicated that the state is moving to more Dems being elected overall. 

RE: Bernie - I have to remind myself he isn't perfect and his endearing aspects don't equate to ideal candidacy. Listening to chapo has warped my more objective views a bit, but even they admit he's no savior and he'd be working against an extremely hostile legislature. Their pipe dream is he'd offer a clearer leftist policy that the Dems haven't really offered since FDR versus a more moderate Dem who will encounter the same deflated momentum as Carter or Obama. Either way I'm still optimistic enough to feel that ANY Dem will be worth voting for without question, even if I have to hold my nose and vote for Biden. I'll vote for a sack of potatoes over Trump or any Republican at this point.

I'm not a big David Brooks fan but he did say something that I feel everyone from far leftists to anti-Trump old school conservatives can agree on - the Dems need to harp on anti-corruption rhetoric. Don't get too specific (i.e. Russian collusion) Just relentlessly point out he's a crook. Don't get sucked into identity politics, to retort to his personal and irrational attacks, just relentlessly point out all of the failings and scandals of his administration in away as nonpartisan as possible and offer up the substantive progressive and working-class oriented policies as the alternative.

Warren Sanders

A 'moderate' will lose to Trump.

A pushover will lose to Trump. Not sure if people confuse pushovers for moderates. 

@joshuatxuk: appreciate the story. And enjoy the Brooks and Shields old farts talking about US politics nowadays. It really takes two dinosaurs to make some sense about current politics, I feel. Without history, I fear we fall pray to the reality-TV twitter nonsense BS we're being drowned in nowadays. We need some old farts with a bit of perspective. ;)

  On 6/30/2019 at 8:58 PM, goDel said:

Not sure if people confuse pushovers for moderates.

Unfortunately, the two are interchangeable at the moment.

You may recall Obama trying this during his first term and getting beat up by the GOP congress for his proverbial lunch money.

The ACA was not the result of Obama being a pushover. And apart from that, it's useful to know the difference between a moderate and a pushover. If the seem interchangeable, you have to look again. Perhaps it's not just about being a pushover, but also about compromising. 

Nowadays, being a moderate or compromising are grossly undervalued, it seems. And going for extremes is a sign of having a spine, instead of a lack of realism or being completely dishonest. 

Well, I thought we were talking about semantics (as in, the current accepted interpretation of words) and public perception, not about character and about what makes a good leader for everyone. If you're talking about the latter, I agree. But in the American brand of democracy, the former is far more important for winning the race. And right now I'm much more of a pragmatist than an idealist.

  Quote

A publishing company in New Brunswick, Canada, has terminated its contract with cartoonist Michael de Adder after a drawing he did of President Donald Trump standing over the bodies of two drowned migrants went viral on social media.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/canadian-artist-fired-after-viral-trump-cartoon-n1025071

  On 6/30/2019 at 7:52 PM, joshuatxuk said:

I'm not a big David Brooks fan but he did say something that I feel everyone from far leftists to anti-Trump old school conservatives can agree on - the Dems need to harp on anti-corruption rhetoric. Don't get too specific (i.e. Russian collusion) Just relentlessly point out he's a crook. Don't get sucked into identity politics, to retort to his personal and irrational attacks, just relentlessly point out all of the failings and scandals of his administration in away as nonpartisan as possible and offer up the substantive progressive and working-class oriented policies as the alternative.

That's a really good point.

Bernie is the only candidate who seems enthusiastic about taking on existing power structures and not caring who he pisses off, because of his lack of corporate affiliations.  One criticism of him is how much he supports the dairy industry as opposed to veganism, but it's a requirement when you're a politician from dairy country, and you can't expect everything from one candidate anyway.

  On 6/30/2019 at 5:39 PM, ignatius said:

i'm not sure bernie has the best shot.. only if a bunch of young people come out to vote.. even then.. not sure. also, biden still polling above the rest. i think most democrats are actually older centrist types. until young people actually become the powerful voting block they can be it's gonna be centrist dems winning out. 

but it really is a bit hard to say. warren is gaining steam with all kinds of voters. remember.. clinton got 3 million more votes than trump but lost those few key places and that was that. 

it's going to be a tight election any way ya cut it. but we've got plenty of time for all kinds of bullshit to happen. 

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Yeah idk who has the best shot. Biden probably does but the guy is a fairly conservative guy and is just as much of a chameleon as any other establishment politician. We live in a fairly right wing country overall where a bunch of people think their political party works for them. As much as I'd want Bernie to win, idk how much of a chance he has. I feel like a candidate like Bernie will be able to win in the next 10 to 20 years and we're seeing the rise of this type of politician over the past few years (thanks in large part to him). But winning a presidency is another thing entirely.

Overall I think it's most likely we will get another Trump presidency. The establishment dems that are being pushed are by and large unappealing, which will turn off the "Bernie crowd". And the non-establishment dems, while appealing, will be slandered and lied about by the media, etc, which will turn off the older dems who get think CNN is a super reliable news source, well enough to where not enough people will find them appealing.

So basically like in 2016, the democrats will shoot themselves in the foot, and republican conservatives will do what they always do, band together no matter who gets the nomination and elect their chosen old white guy.

USA is ready for some social democracy. It's about time

You guys could have a much easier and relaxed life with some containment of predatory capitalism

  On 7/1/2019 at 10:00 AM, darreichungsform said:

USA is ready for some social democracy. It's about time

You guys could have a much easier and relaxed life with some containment of predatory capitalism

Socialism is still a bad word to large swathes of the population.

Yeah

But what Sanders etc. call socialism is in fact social democracy

  On 7/1/2019 at 11:18 AM, darreichungsform said:

Yeah

But what Sanders etc. call socialism is in fact social democracy

"You mean like the nazis had?"  <---  common thing ignorant americans say.