On 8/7/2019 at 7:03 PM, darreichungsform said:

@Zeffolia: What about discrimination of people with low IQ?

Yes you're right

  On 8/7/2019 at 10:40 PM, manmower said:

You're trying to compare gay in the literal sense to the unsavory types you refer to as autists. I meant the recent past when gay seemed to be synonymous with lame and people were calling each other retarded and mongoloids as insults all day long. We still kind of do that I guess, but I see a lot less of it. I think it has something to do with our interconnectedness mentioned earlier, but we don't need to dwell on the reasons.

So, anyway, (gay people : using gay to mean anything you don't like) = (people with ASD : using autist to mean a shitty individual) = (people with Down syndrome : calling your little brother a mongoloid because he overwrote your save game), and so on.

It's not that it's upsetting to me, for the most part it only makes those who do it seem a bit dumb and careless. I've cringed once too often at my own contributions to some old discussions getting bumped here. Only responded to you because you seemed semi-serious about it, whereas I guess most are just having their idea of fun and would spend zero time or energy on trying to justify their behavior.

P.S. The misspelling ghey was some kind of stillborn attempt at a guilt-free version of the old colloquial 'lame' gay as you had probably guessed.

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I thought you meant gay in the literal sense because you brought up the gay community in connection with this and suggested that it was similarly unfair on them. like the autist thing and vulnerable people on the high end of the autism spectrum, it would be unfair if someone used the words "gay" or "faggot" to hurt an actual gay person, but I thought we all understood on WATMM, a pretty liberal place overall, that this is not the intent and that it's used for comedic effect.

side note: not saying I'm Dave Chappelle or this is a live comedy venue but he used plenty of these touchy words in a recent specials, in a non-hurtful way. I have also had gay friends use the word "gay" to joke about something or someone which kind of made me re-evaluate the term after I'd already decided to remove it from my vocabulary. maybe they can and I can't, idk, I still don't use it anymore really.

now, you can still argue using these terms is juvenile and trolly. it is. you wouldn't talk like this irl. you could also argue that it could hurt a person even in spite of your intent, for whatever reason (text medium/the internet garbles everyone's intent), and that's possible. I would stop and think if someone approached me genuinely to convince me it's hurtful and to stop doing that shit. Zeff's arguments aren't really working in that capacity.

why am I spending time explaining/justifying this? idk really, I guess this off-topic tangent went in a more serious direction and I decided to be a bit more sincere (with Zeff, mainly), which already feels like a mistake. I'm also still trying to understand the root impetus for your post, if it's not that you were upset by the term. that we should all be more mature? feels like a futile notion in this place.

  On 8/8/2019 at 3:55 AM, Zeffolia said:

I didn't edit the link, it could be that wikipedia bug with parentheses where it ignores the parentheses part of the URL

yeah, could be. or some kind of redirection issue from the disambiguation page.

You hear a lot of stat analysis, electoral college predictions and doubt as to whether the dems have it in them...but I have a feeling this tumor is going to be destroyed in 2020.

Maybe I have too much faith in humanity. He’s sabotaging the ‘glowing’ economy with his self inflicted trade war and I would guess shame and self conscience in the general norms populous that threw him a vote is greater than the stubborn childishness of his idiotic base.  

  On 8/8/2019 at 4:10 AM, usagi said:

side note: not saying I'm Dave Chappelle or this is a live comedy venue but he used plenty of these touchy words in a recent specials, in a non-hurtful way. I have also had gay friends use the word "gay" to joke about something or someone which kind of made me re-evaluate the term after I'd already decided to remove it from my vocabulary. maybe they can and I can't, idk, I still don't use it anymore really.

now, you can still argue using these terms is juvenile and trolly. it is. you wouldn't talk like this irl. you could also argue that it could hurt a person even in spite of your intent, for whatever reason (text medium/the internet garbles everyone's intent), and that's possible. I would stop and think if someone approached me genuinely to convince me it's hurtful and to stop doing that shit. Zeff's arguments aren't really working in that capacity. 

why am I spending time explaining/justifying this? idk really, I guess this off-topic tangent went in a more serious direction and I decided to be a bit more sincere (with Zeff, mainly), which already feels like a mistake. I'm also still trying to understand the root impetus for your post, if it's not that you were upset by the term. that we should all be more mature? feels like a futile notion in this place.

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Re: "you wouldn't talk like this irl" I'd say it's much easier to know who's listening in real life or in any more private context. It's certainly my experience that in the 'right' company things can get incredibly coarse with no bad consequences, or intentions for that matter.

It's been a while since I watched Chappelle's specials, from what I remember he was mostly joking about actual gay and trans people rather than using the terms as slurs for anyone else? But although your post is still messy in that regard, I think you got it.

What drove me to post? Not trying to change anyone's relatively harmless behavior, I think it's more out of surprise at watching you try and argue that there is any relevant difference instead of owning the fact that you're arbitrarily using one term as the slur du jour but not another, which is what I'd expect.

k I guess... I don't really get the point of this storm in a teacup which is outside of what I was really trying to talk about: the problematic thinking/behaviour of self-responsible individuals, and the growing consequences of this on everyone else in the form of these multiplying mass shootings (the bit that's on-topic itt). the term was being used as a shorthand for all that. I thought you were bothered by the idea of maligning vulnerable high-end autistic people. that would bother me.

re Chappelle, in Equanimity (2017), he had a whole bit about his poor reception with the trans community after some jokes at their expense, but I meant more broadly he wasn't afraid of using the words "gay" or "faggot" or "nigger" (hard R) either for that matter when it worked in a comedic context. he's uniquely good at tempering that sort of thing with good intent while staying funny at the same time.

  On 8/8/2019 at 11:27 AM, usagi said:

re Chappelle, in Equanimity (2017), he had a whole bit about his poor reception with the trans community after some jokes at their expense, but I meant more broadly he wasn't afraid of using the words "gay" or "faggot" or "nigger" (hard R) either for that matter when it worked in a comedic context. he's uniquely good at tempering that sort of thing with good intent while staying funny at the same time.

The trick there is using an epithet that doesn't target anyone or group. You change the context to make the epithet meaningless, essentially defanging it. I can't specifically remember how Chappelle uses it in that special, but that's generally how that's done.

Deutsche Bank and Wall Street banks reportedly just gave Congress thousands of documents related to Russians with possible ties to Trump

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/deutsche-bank-jpmorgan-give-congress-donald-trump-russia-documents-2019-8-1028431306?utm_source=reddit.com

^ can we please just deport donnie & the trump's to Russia? seems like they'd be much happier over there. I mean he's already heavily invested anyway. plus there's tons of white people, lots of d-bag billionaires, rampant corruption, no threat of jail time if you're rich for anything EVER, outrageously over the top penthouses in super tall skyscrapers, mickey d's, beautiful women....perfect!!!!!  

Is this supposed to be some kind of threat?  Do is a favor, and stay the fuck off Twitter and do what we're paying you to do.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/trump-campaign-halts-twitter-spending-191243746.html

it's funny but it will make them want to vote for trump more and they will actually think it's serious and representative of liberals

  On 8/8/2019 at 9:33 PM, zero said:

^ can we please just deport donnie 

i would like to see his long form birth certificate

  On 8/8/2019 at 4:29 AM, bendish said:

You hear a lot of stat analysis, electoral college predictions and doubt as to whether the dems have it in them...but I have a feeling this tumor is going to be destroyed in 2020.

Maybe I have too much faith in humanity. 

What you have too much faith in is Democrats' ability to get their shit together. They're on the right side of history but rallying the votes is like herding cats.

the honest are at a disadvantage against the dishonest. spreading lies about your opponents is a powerful tool. the dems are not the problem, it's the nature of the fight: the corrupt get highly motivated because they survive on lies. 

historically, power consolidates. that's why democracy exists, solely to stand in the way of the consolidation of power. it's an uphill battle to maintain fairness. 

the dems are fine. the republicans want to destroy the earth. let's not shit on dems. 

what about the very honest

we cry openly

  On 8/9/2019 at 4:34 AM, very honest said:

the dems are fine. the republicans want to destroy the earth. let's not shit on dems. 

This line of thinking is great if you want to lose an election. 

it profoundly bums me out when people gripe about the dems over meager things. meanwhile, the gop is rigging the country for the rich at the expense of the middle class, climate stability, the environment, justice, truth, human rights, civil rights, education, healthcare, international stability, econmic stability, and the integrity of the country.

I think we may be talking past each other here. My point isn't that the dems are wrong or stupid or deserve derision,  certainly not that they are unworthy of running the country. My point is that in order to run the country they have to first win the elections. Pouting about the bad guys won't move that forward. 

yeah. i think we agree. i was offering a different perspective on the dynamic that you were remarking on. the difference in aggressiveness between the right and the left can be accounted for by the fact that one side can fall back on facts, and the other can't. the right is engaged in perpetual information warfare, because they have to in order to survive. they're better at it, more motivated, and willing to outright lie, because they will go all-in, because they have to. 

it' a distinction worth making because it should alarm us that this is the situation. it's precarious. people should know that the left needs to fight harder than the right does. the information warfare works.

I think you're right about the "information warfare" (Alex Jones aside lol). I think the dems need more bite. Not aggression per se and not deigning to petty deception, but not holding back either and definitely not engaging in the tedious identity politics that the dialog has indulged for the last few years.

The hearts and minds to win over aren't in our safe spaces. Frankly I think it comes down to showing them how the Republicans are fucking them over, not in a tragic, angelic tone but with well-deserved, focused anger. Which is different from lazy, inbred, habitual hatred.

  On 8/9/2019 at 3:44 AM, Zeffolia said:

it's funny but it will make them want to vote for trump more and they will actually think it's serious and representative of liberals

i don't see it doing that to people who are NOT already on trump's side. and i like tommy lee's frustration. because he sounds like he understands we cannot afford another trump term.

as much as i "like" rosanna arquette; it's her type of frustration that i see doing more damage than good. because this is the type of "white guilt" they claim globalism is trying to propagate with the invitation of mass immigration

  On 8/9/2019 at 4:01 AM, sweepstakes said:

What you have too much faith in is Democrats' ability to get their shit together. They're on the right side of history but rallying the votes is like herding cats.

If it were a Warren Sanders ticket I’d have faith. The rest and especially Biden have shitty records and will tank it.