Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

**ignatius** · June 3, 2020

Trump Vs. Reality

https://v.redd.it/zp9v35jhzk251

Edited June 3, 2020 by ignatius

**may be rude** · June 3, 2020

On 6/2/2020 at 9:52 PM, joshuatxuk said:

It's going to be dicey, not so much because the military's upper ranks are Trump loyalists so much as they are concerned about keeping nukes secure and vital infrastructures protected. National Guard is federalized so this is a double-edge sword. So I think the tragic aspect is the US military will ultimately side with the people long after the damage is done and well beyond the oppurtunity to flush Trump and authoritarian leaders (sympathetic governors, agences like ICE, CBP, CIA, etc.) who support him out of power.

State governors can't wield national guard forces against each other because governors can only call up guard for their own internal jurisdictions. IIRC when the Cali national guard (the 40th Infantry division) deployed in the LA Riots it was from Bush's order ultimately.

Unlike many countries the US has a de-politicized military. While over decades the U.S. has become more militaristic and right-wing patriotism = military and police backing has been normalized this country still has a legal separation of civilian and military rank and file and a the POTUS is commander in chief. We don't have appointed officers like they do in many Middle Eastern countries. Military leaders like generals are very political active in many Asian countries, especially in SE Asia and South Asia. This has for 200 years prevented a coup from the military, the issue now is a coup from an unchecked executive.

Mattis was an imperialist and hawk but he was also concerned with the union and his resigning was pretty much an indication he wanted no part in Trump's overall cabinet. He couldn't yeild power as a civilian Sec. of Defense so one Trump refused to heed his advice on foreign policy his role in pushing for stability was useless. He was pretty much the last non-loyalist. God knows how many are still in the White House holding their tongues and serving the country over Trump but I think a few are there but now they probably can only tip-off other agencies.

The closest equivalents I can think of post civil war:

The Coal Wars, specifically Battle of Blair Mountain in 1921 - this pitted Union strikers and their militias with local law enforcement, hired guns and ultimately lead to the US army intervened. While the US army technically didn't come in to fight one side but rather end the fighting they forced the Union militias to surrender, so essentially the strikers and not the oppressive local police were punished. It pretty much killed the momentum of the Union movement in the US which never yielded a labor party equivalent despite a very, very large and diverse support from working-class citizens.

1930s Bonus_Army protest and subsequent massacre. The protesting veterans were supported by the most decorated USMC officer of the time, Smedley Butler. He was also notorious for alleging a corporate plot to overthrow FDR. It's never been fully proven but it's very plausible - US corporations opposed any kind of policy that was anti-fascist as they did business with Franco and Hitler until 1939. FDR was the most socialist and pro-Union president of the last century and he was strongly opposed for that stance. FDR even deployed troops to defend workers who were striking and being threatened by local police forces backing factory owners.

The massacre was lead by a younger Patton. While a tactical genius Patton was notoriously right-wing, so much so he openly expressed admiration for the German army over the Soviets. If he hadn't been so disgusted by the Holocaust and appalled by Hitler's incompetence he would have pretty much been a Nazi apologist. In fact on record he said the Nazis were more akin to Dems and the GOP in Germany.

////

Compare the US to other scenarios, including the Civil War itself, and it's a unique scenerio. There's no equal split of arms and forces in the government that will pit against each other. It will be local fighting and a US military struggling to restore order. Compare it to a democracy like Spain in the 1930s, which saw specific Spanish military units siding immediately with Franco and the Nationalists, leading to Republicans the military that didn't support the coup having to fight defecting military units. Here that won't happen, instead the question is whether the US military and national guard will start forcing state police and local police - themselves fairly well armed - to relinquish control. It's going to be ugly - at some point officers and soldiers will start going AWOL and defecting. More concerning all of the 3% and right-wing nuts in the military are going to either issue orders to oppress civillians and Trump's state enemies or defect with equipment and join right-wing militias. I know the latter will happen at least on some level at some point. Funny enough I think this unrest has actually made some right-wing gun nuts back off of Trump a little bit and force them into a more neutral or at least different focused "mission" as the actual beginning of government oppression they always hypothetically feared is actually taking place.

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great post, as always.

at the end you seem to suggest that you're anticipating unrest to escalate nearer to a serious internal conflict. today the nyt reports that barr had to argue against invoking the insurrection act, while pence argued for it, and then ivanka told trump to walk over to the church.

Reveal hidden contents

Quote

WASHINGTON — After a weekend of protests that led all the way to his own front yard and forced him to briefly retreat to a bunker beneath the White House, President Trump arrived in the Oval Office on Monday agitated over the television images, annoyed that anyone would think he was hiding and eager for action.

He wanted to send the military into American cities, an idea that provoked a heated, voices-raised fight among his advisers. But by the end of the day, urged on by his daughter Ivanka Trump, he came up with a more personal way of demonstrating toughness — he would march across Lafayette Square to a church damaged by fire the night before.

The only problem: A plan developed earlier in the day to expand the security perimeter around the White House had not been carried out. When Attorney General William P. Barr strode out of the White House gates for a personal inspection early Monday evening, he discovered that protesters were still on the northern edge of the square. For the president to make it to St. John’s Church, they would have to be cleared out. Mr. Barr gave the order to disperse them.

What ensued was a burst of violence unlike any seen in the shadow of the White House in generations. As he prepared for his surprise march to the church, Mr. Trump first went before cameras in the Rose Garden to declare himself “your president of law and order” but also “an ally of all peaceful protesters,” even as peaceful protesters just a block away and clergy members on the church patio were routed by smoke and flash grenades and some form of chemical spray deployed by shield-bearing riot officers and mounted police.

After a day in which he berated “weak” governors and lectured them to “dominate” the demonstrators, the president emerged from the White House, followed by a phalanx of aides and Secret Service agents as he made his way to the church, where he posed stern-faced, holding up a Bible that his daughter pulled out of her $1,540 Max Mara bag.

The resulting photographs of Mr. Trump striding purposefully across the square satisfied his long-held desire to project strength, images that members of his re-election campaign team quickly began recirculating and pinning to their Twitter home pages once he was safely back in the fortified White House.

The scene of mayhem — barely 1,000 feet from the symbol of American democracy — that preceded the walk evoked images more commonly associated with authoritarian countries, but that did not bother the president, who has long flirted with overseas strongmen and has expressed envy of their ability to dominate.

Throughout his time in office, Mr. Trump has generated concern over what critics see as his autocratic instincts, including his claims to untrammeled power to “do whatever I want,” his attacks on quasi-autonomous institutions of government like the F.B.I. or inspectors general and his efforts to discredit independent sources of information that anger him, like the news media he denounces as the “enemy of the people.”

And when the history of the Trump presidency is written, the clash at Lafayette Square may be remembered as one of its defining moments.

Mr. Trump and his inner circle considered it a triumph that would resonate with many middle Americans turned off by scenes of urban riots and looting that have accompanied nonviolent protests of the police killing of a subdued black man in Minneapolis.

But critics, including some fellow Republicans, were aghast at the use of force against Americans who posed no visible threat at the time, all to facilitate what they deemed a ham-handed photo opportunity featuring all white faces. Some Democratic senators used words like “fascist” and “dictator” to describe the president’s words and actions.

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, who was not consulted beforehand, said she was “outraged” over the use of one of her churches as a political backdrop to boast of squelching protests against racism. Even some White House officials privately expressed dismay that the president’s entourage had not thought to include a single person of color.

Mayor Muriel E. Bowser of Washington sharply objected on Tuesday and said the federal government had even privately broached the idea of taking over the city’s police force, which she pledged to resist. “I don’t think the military should be used in the streets of American cities against Americans,” she said, “and I definitely don’t think it should be done for a show.”

Arlington County in suburban Virginia withdrew its police from those assembled to guard the White House and other federal sites after the Lafayette Square clash. Even beforehand, Democratic governors in Virginia, New York and Delaware refused to send National Guard troops requested by the Trump administration.

The spectacle staged by the White House also left military leaders struggling to explain themselves in response to criticism from retired officers that they had allowed themselves to be used as political props. Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper and Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, put out word through military officials that they did not know in advance about the dispersal of the protesters or about the president’s planned photo op, insisting that they thought they were accompanying him to review the troops.

The police action cleared the way for the photo op, but it hardly quelled the anger in the streets. By Tuesday afternoon, demonstrators had returned to the edge of Lafayette Square — where new tall fences had been erected overnight — and shouted their discontent at the line of black-clad officers.

“Take off the riot gear, I don’t see no riot here,” they chanted.

Aides on Tuesday defended Mr. Trump’s walk to the church, given that a small fire had been set in its basement during demonstrations over the weekend. “The president very much felt when he saw those images on Sunday night — that crossed a terrible line, that goes way beyond peaceful protesting,” Kellyanne Conway, his counselor, told reporters.

But she distanced him from the decisions on how to disperse the crowd. “Clearly, the president doesn’t know how law enforcement is handling his movement,” she said.

This account of the clash is based on descriptions by reporters at the scene, interviews with dozens of protesters, White House aides, law enforcement officials, city leaders and others involved in the tense day as well as an analysis of video footage from the New York Times’s visual investigations team.

Mr. Trump was stirred up on Monday morning as he met with national security and law enforcement advisers to discuss what could be done about the street unrest. The advisers told him that he could not let the nation’s capital be overrun, that the symbolism was too important and that he had to get it under control that night.

Among the ideas put on the table was invoking the Insurrection Act, a two-century-old law that would enable the president to send in active-duty military to quell disturbances over the objections of governors. The act has long been controversial. President George Bush invoked it in 1992 to respond to the Rodney King riots only at the request of California. But in the civil rights era, presidents sent in troops to enforce desegregation over the resistance of racist governors.

Its use is so charged that President George W. Bush hesitated to invoke it to respond to Hurricane Katrina for fear of looking like he was overriding local and state leaders.

Vice President Mike Pence favored the idea, reasoning that it would allow quicker action than calling up National Guard units, and he was backed by Mr. Esper. But Mr. Barr and General Milley warned against it. The attorney general cited concerns about states’ rights, while General Milley assured the president that he had enough force already in the nation’s capital to secure the city and expressed worry about putting active-duty soldiers in such a role.

Several officials came away with different impressions of where Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, stood on the issue, but the discussion grew increasingly heated as voices were raised and tensions escalated.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence then conducted a conference call with the nation’s governors in which the president berated them for being “weak” and “fools,” advising them to “dominate” the demonstrators. Mr. Esper talked about controlling “the battlespace.”

The president rhapsodized about the crackdown in Minneapolis once the National Guard moved in. “It’s a beautiful thing to watch,” he said. “It just can’t be any better. There’s no experiment needed. You don’t have to do tests.”

In Washington, Mr. Barr was in charge of the federal response and an alphabet soup of agencies had contributed officers, agents and troops to defend the White House and other federal installations, including the Secret Service, the United States Park Police, National Guard, Capitol Police, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Marshal’s Service, the Bureau of Prisons, Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Mr. Barr was concerned about demonstrations near the White House over the weekend that had resulted in a small basement fire at St. John’s and graffiti on the Treasury Department headquarters, so he resolved to push the security perimeter farther from the mansion.

Reinforcements were summoned. Just before noon, an alert went out to every Washington-area agent with Homeland Security Investigations, a division of ICE, telling them to prepare to assist with any demonstration, according to an email labeled with a “high” severity. The F.B.I. deployed its elite hostage rescue team, highly armed and trained agents more accustomed to arresting dangerous suspects than dealing with riots. And ICE deployed its “special response teams” to protect agency facilities and be on call for more.

But others were reluctant to help. Mr. Trump was so aggressive on the call with governors that when Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia received a request to send up to 5,000 of his state’s National Guard troops, he grew concerned. His staff contacted Ms. Bowser’s office and discovered that the mayor had not even been notified of the request. At that point, Mr. Northam turned the White House down. Similarly, Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York called off buses of National Guard troops that were to head to Washington.

By midafternoon on Monday, protesters had gathered again on H Street at the north side of Lafayette Square, this time peacefully. The Rev. Gini Gerbasi, the rector of St. John’s Church in Georgetown and a former assistant rector at St. John’s, arrived around 4 p.m. with cases of water for the demonstrators. Joining her on the church patio were about 20 clergy members who passed out snacks.

Next to them on the patio, a group affiliated with Black Lives Matter mixed water and soap in squeeze bottles as emergency eye wash if protesters were tear-gassed by the police.

While there were occasionally some aggressive encounters with the police, Ms. Gerbasi said, it was largely calm. “There were a few tense moments,” she said. “But it was peaceful.”

Inside the White House nearby, Mr. Trump was coming up with his plan to walk to the church. Several administration officials said it was his own idea; two officials said that Mr. Meadows credited Ms. Trump during a senior staff meeting on Tuesday. It was crafted during an Oval Office meeting that included Ms. Trump; Mr. Meadows; Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser; and Hope Hicks, another top adviser.

At some point, Anthony Ornato, a Secret Service veteran who serves as deputy chief of staff for operations, was brought in to coordinate the logistics of the visit. Ms. Hicks came up with the visuals for how it would look. But officials privately conceded that little thought was given to what Mr. Trump would do once he actually got to the church. There was some discussion of going inside, but it was boarded up.

The president and his team decided he would first make a statement in the Rose Garden in which he would express sympathy for the family of George Floyd, the black man who died in Minneapolis when a police officer kneeled on his neck for nearly nine minutes, but then he would take a strong stance in favor of reclaiming the streets. He would threaten to invoke the Insurrection Act if governors and mayors did not do a better job of security. Reporters were told a statement would be coming, but the march to the church was kept a secret.

Mr. Barr made a trip out of the White House and into Lafayette Square only to find that the plan to expand the security perimeter had not been carried out. He ordered the law enforcement officers on the ground to complete the expansion, which would mean dispersing protesters, but there was not enough time to do so before the president’s planned statement.

Shortly after, two members of the Secret Service counterassault team appeared on the roof of the West Wing with guns and binoculars, peering north toward Lafayette Square. While snipers are stationed on the main roof of the White House from time to time, they are not usually deployed on top of the West Wing, and the sight was jarring for regulars at the building.

The White House press corps was summoned to the Rose Garden at 6:03 p.m. Outside the gates and across Lafayette Square, some of the officers in riot gear kneeled down and some protesters initially thought they were expressing solidarity as the police have done in other cities, but in fact they were putting on their gas masks.

At 6:17 p.m., a large phalanx of officers wearing Secret Service uniforms began advancing on protesters, climbing or jumping over barriers at the edge of the square at H Street and Madison Place. Officials said later that the police warned protesters to disperse three times, but if they did, reporters on the scene as well as many demonstrators did not hear it.

Some form of chemical agent was fired at protesters, flash bang grenades went off and mounted police moved toward the crowds. “People were dropping to the ground” at the sound of bangs and pops that sounded like gunfire, Ms. Gerbasi said. “We started seeing and smelling tear gas, and people were running at us.”

By 6:30 p.m., she said, “Suddenly the police were on the patio of St. John’s Church in a line, literally pushing and shoving people off of the patio.”

Julia Dominick, a seminarian with the Virginia Theological Seminary in Alexandria, Va., and a former emergency room nurse, was tending to a hurt protester when a police line advanced.

“There was not a warning,” she said. “I’ve never been in a war. I’ve never been shot at. I’ve never been afraid in that way. Those sounds and the gas, it will be with me.” (No police agency acknowledged using tear gas, but reporters and protesters on the scene said there was clearly a chemical irritant of some kind.)

At 6:43 p.m., Mr. Trump made his statement in the Rose Garden, finishing seven minutes later, and then headed back through the White House to emerge on the north side and walk out the gates and into the park. Mr. Barr, Mr. Esper, General Milley, Mr. Meadows, Ms. Trump, Mr. Kushner and others followed him, but Mr. Pence and his staff hung back as the building emptied and watched on television instead.

The president’s movement surprised nearly everyone, as he intended, including law enforcement. The Washington police chief said he was notified only moments beforehand. Park Police commanders on the scene were as surprised as everyone else to see the president in the park.

When he reached St. John’s, Mr. Trump made no pretense of any intent other than posing for photographs — he held up the Bible carried by his daughter, then gathered a few top advisers next to him in a line. He made no remarks and then, having accomplished his purpose, headed back to the White House, passing in front of a wall with new graffiti saying, “Fuck Trump.”

The police and other forces pursued demonstrators around the capital the rest of the evening, with military helicopters even swooping low overhead in what were called shows of force. Mr. Barr and General Milley at different points roamed the streets.

By Tuesday morning, Mr. Trump boasted of success. “D.C. had no problems last night,” he wrote on Twitter. “Many arrests. Great job done by all. Overwhelming force. Domination. Likewise, Minneapolis was great (thank you President Trump!).”

By Tuesday afternoon, the crowds were back and even bigger.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/politics/trump-walk-lafayette-square.html

i still have hope that we can avert a more militarized scenario through a collective spread of reverence for peacefulness. peaceful protest is an american institution. the concept is spreading. when you see police taking a knee in solidarity with protestors, you see it working. put police between peaceful protestors and crazy trump, and they will side with the protestors.

we see exceptions, with police moving on peaceful protests. i feel that, if the principle of peacefull protest reaches critical mass, then the protests can adopt a forcefield that will win the day. the potential is there, but people need to spread the message. absolute peacefulness alone may not be enough. we will also need practices of being watchful for agitators, using cameras and social networks, and general communication and discussion at a new level.

i hope we take that path.

**joshuatxuk** · June 3, 2020

^ I think I'm anticipating the worst to mentally prepare for it. The peaceful protest is underpinning all of this - so much so it's been apparent that the institutions are trying to fuck that up (plenty of videos of them busting windows, sending in instigators to spur crowds to destroy property, shooting to provoke) and still failing overall.

If there's one truly positive difference between the past and now is that citizens are armed with the ability to make and distribute media, organize and re-group, and steer narratives online like never before. Some of the stuff Trump is pulling and getting called out on in mere hours or even minutes would have been discriminated and distributed effectively decades ago - and he would have done so without any doubt or skepticism for days, weeks, months, even years. Hell he would have gotten away with a lot of this in the 2000s. Bush and post-9/11 media was the fucking dark ages compared to the state of things now. We would have gotten media indifference and enlightened centrism for weeks and months, with lameass SNL skits and late night stand up routines to boot.

**chenGOD** · June 3, 2020

On 6/2/2020 at 11:11 PM, Nebraska said:

Melania looks like she's taken 14 Xanax.

**ignatius** · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 5:37 AM, chenGOD said:

Melania looks like she's taken 14 Xanax.

she looks like she hired michael jackson's doctor. MJ was taking like 20-40mg of xanax a day and also getting the propohol at night to sleep. 2mg of xanax is enough to make a typical person just pass out and sleep for 12 hours.

melania must be numbing herself extra hard these days.

**joshuatxuk** · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 5:37 AM, chenGOD said:

Melania looks like she's taken 14 Xanax.

**auxien** · June 3, 2020

re: military leaders speaking up

https://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-chief-of-staff-says-americans-should-be-outraged-2020-6

Quote

"As the Air Force's military leadership, we reflect on and acknowledge that what happens on America's streets is also resident in our Air Force. Sometimes it's explicit, sometimes it's subtle," Goldfein wrote.

"We see this in the apparent inequity in our application of military justice," the general added, apparently referring to a recent report indicating that the Air Force disciplined black airmen disproportionately.

and https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/american-cities-are-not-battlespaces/612553/

Quote

I remain confident in the professionalism of our men and women in uniform. They will serve with skill and with compassion. They will obey lawful orders. But I am less confident in the soundness of the orders they will be given by this commander in chief, and I am not convinced that the conditions on our streets, as bad as they are, have risen to the level that justifies a heavy reliance on military troops. Certainly, we have not crossed the threshold that would make it appropriate to invoke the provisions of the Insurrection Act.

Furthermore, I am deeply worried that as they execute their orders, the members of our military will be co-opted for political purposes.

Even in the midst of the carnage we are witnessing, we must endeavor to see American cities and towns as our homes and our neighborhoods. They are not “battle spaces” to be dominated, and must never become so.

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**joshuatxuk** · June 3, 2020

Thanks for posting those, I haven't actively sought out any such statements but I'm not surprised.

I could talk endlessly about this but I'll try to keep it brief. This Atlantic article is a good start.

- The US military is a skewed and lopsided microcosm of US society structured in a rank-and-file and bureaucratic manner that has, often jokingly, been acknowledged as one of the most bureaucratic entities in the world. Even more ironically until the 90s and 00s it was one of the most socialized - a society unto itself with medical, housing, and communal support manned by fellow service personnel. That's been largely privatized to become another facet of the massive US military industrial complex. Rich and powerful have always been a rarity in the US military but since the draft ended after the 1970s it's no longer as much of cross section of the US public. Instead you have either a lot of rural poor/working class mostly white recruits or urban poor and working class mostly minority recruits in the enlisted world. Many officers are either people seeking affordable college degrees and career training or overtly militaristic ideology driven nuts (who have always been part of the military). As much as the rank and file system and shared mission maintains solidarity it's now there's a growing tension between less hawkish and more liberal / progressive minded servicemen and more overtly hawkish, right-wing authoritarians. Recruitment is it's worst state since the draft ended so you're literally either getting closet pyschopaths who want to play COD IRL or desperate kids trying to get a decent job and education from shitholes in the US.

- Much of the US military's collapse of morale during Vietnam stemmed from turmoil stateside - the civil rights movement, counterculture, new left politics, etc. Black soldiers disproportionately being drafted and deployed to front line combat, disillusioned conscripts of all races and even all classes reckoning with their role in a futile war with older officers and hardline anti-communist leaders. Veterans came back with little employment options, superficial public support, and were driven to suicide, drugs, and homelessness. Shit's happened again with the War On Terror. The US military in the 1970s openly tried to be more inclusive, appealing, career motivated, and volunteer based. The military since 2009 or so has really pushed the same rhetoric. Elmo Zumwalt's tenure in the US Navy is a great example - he allowed beards and longer haircuts, he openly addressed issues of racial and gender inequality in the military, pushed for better treatment and R&R for sailors, etc. It ended in 1980 and the shift away from that went along with Reagan and Bush. On the more negative side the US military has pretty much become a well-oiled PR machine with full cooperation with Hollywood and the mainstream media. We spend more on the military than ever before and yet still conduct endless wars against militants overseas mostly fought with small arms, drones, and spec op troops. What it presents via fly-bys and blockbuster cameos is a Potemkin Village for the US public.

To sum up, as militaristic and full of right-wing authoritarian nuts the US military is there's a huge portion of both leadership and their subordinates who are reasonable people. But akin to the state of law enforcement the system is so corrupt and infected with corporate interests they are complicit to what Trump and his predecessors have turned the US military into: a profit driven, cynical, behemoth that protects the status quo of US imperialism.

Edited June 3, 2020 by joshuatxuk

sweepstakes · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 6:54 AM, joshuatxuk said:

The US military is a skewed and lopsided microcosm of US society structured in a rank-and-file and bureaucratic manner that has, often jokingly, been acknowledged as one of the most bureaucratic entities in the world. Even more ironically until the 90s and 00s it was one of the most socialized - a society unto itself with medical, housing, and communal support manned by fellow service personnel.

My dad was in the military when I was a kid. I have happy childhood memories of living on base and its comforting sense of community and shared resources that is much rarer in civilian life. We argued about politics a lot in the last few years before he passed away, and he was truly baffled the one time I pointed out how the military (during his time in the service, at least) was one of the most perfect examples of socialism to be found in American life. It's weird what people take for granted.

**ambermonk** · June 3, 2020

Even for working a lower-end NAF job, the benefits are hard to argue with compared to probably most places in the private sector. And yes, there is a shit-ton of bureaucracy we deal with even as civilian personnel.

But yeah, something uniquely sentimental about our time on Malmstrom.

**iococoi** · June 3, 2020

**joshuatxuk** · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 7:14 AM, sweepstakes said:

My dad was in the military when I was a kid. I have happy childhood memories of living on base and its comforting sense of community and shared resources that is much rarer in civilian life. We argued about politics a lot in the last few years before he passed away, and he was truly baffled the one time I pointed out how the military (during his time in the service, at least) was one of the most perfect examples of socialism to be found in American life. It's weird what people take for granted.

Same here, until I was in high school. Born in the UK and got to live in Okinawa. Experienced some culture shock when I got back, albeit far less culture shock than many of my peers who went from diverse and fairly progressive DoDDs schools to rural or conservative parts of the U.S. Getting out of the bubble of the US Air Force coupled with the post-9/11 Bush years and Iraq War made my disillusionment and subsequent path to liberalism and leftism from the default moderate conservatism I was raised more stark*.

It's funny - at this point I've lived about as long without it in my life but it is still an experience I look back and reflect on for a variety of ways including the aspect of idealized community we both experienced and witnessed as dependents.

*(albeit very long and wavering - when I joined WATMM in 2008 I was giving naive misguided libertarianism an extended try after my last year in high school and first year in college as a pissed off leftist)

**ignatius** · June 3, 2020

milkface · June 3, 2020

All the videos of the police I have seen so far have made me sick. The power that becoming a police officer gives to an individual is what attracts emotionally weak, power hungry, enraged wife beaters to join the force.

J3FF3R00 · June 3, 2020

Only baby men hit little girls.

Nebraska · June 3, 2020

Quote

We are not currently promoting the President’s content on Snapchat’s Discover platform.

We will not amplify voices who incite racial violence and injustice by giving them free promotion on Discover. Racial violence and injustice have no place in our society and we stand together with all who seek peace, love, equality, and justice in America.

snapchat

zero · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 7:11 PM, Nebraska said:

snapchat

great. now I wish twitter would grow a pair and ban him from their platform. pretty sure he's violated whatever rules they have for everyone else, which don't seem to apply to the king chimp.

**Braintree** · June 3, 2020

Really glad someone dug up this meme: https://www.captiongenerator.com/1865892/Trumper-Tantrum

**Silent Member** · June 3, 2020

So how long until Esper is fired?

**chenGOD** · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 10:02 PM, zero said:

pretty sure he's violated whatever rules they have for everyone else, which don't seem to apply to the king chimp.

100% he has

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/trump-twitter-account-copy-tweets-glorifying-violence-suspended-a9545831.html

zero · June 3, 2020

On 6/3/2020 at 10:33 PM, Gocab said:

So how long until Esper is fired?

he's in direct violation of the gospel from chump's second favorite book (art of the deal #1 baby).

from Ecclesiastes 10:20:

Do not revile the king even in your thoughts, or curse the rich in your bedroom, because a bird in the sky may carry your words, and a bird on the wing may report what you say.

**psn** · June 4, 2020

Mattis turns on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

**auxien** · June 4, 2020

On 6/4/2020 at 12:34 AM, psn said:

Mattis turns on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

all these rich and powerful motherfuckers sure got lots of words. wish they would/would've shown some action.

don't get me wrong, the words are good. but i've got words. lots of people got words. i ain't got money and power and elite friends and influence, they do. they ain't used it and they ain't using it now.

zero · June 4, 2020

On 6/4/2020 at 12:34 AM, psn said:

Mattis turns on Trump.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

so now we know who wrote that anonymous op-ed in the NY times awhile back, the one where everyone though it was pence

Nebraska · June 4, 2020

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