Manchester Bomb Attack

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:59 PM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

 

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:46 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:28 PM, ignatius said:

was reading about this last night on reddit. lot's of horrific 1st person accounts.  chaos. apparently security didn't check anyone's bag as they entered.  i'm guessing if they had it just would've meant the bomber triggering the bomb at the entrance instead of inside the concert.. weird that he waiting until the end of the show to blow himself up. 

 

a girl said it was right in front of her and she was covered in blood flesh and feces and trying to get it all out of her hair. fucking hell. sorry manchester.  scary for all the parents and kids. glad the locals came together and made spaces for the kids to hang out and wait to find their parents. 

The bomb wasn't triggered inside the concert, it was triggered in a publicly accessible area between Victoria Station and the Box Office. There would conceivably be no checks done there, because it's simply a public area.

 

 

 

huh, interesting. That's absent from media around these parts. Seems an important detail to leave out. Furthering a narrative indeed.

 

Yeah it's a pretty important detail.

It's only been reported as The Foyer. But chances are it's all over cctv if this is the case.

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:46 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:28 PM, ignatius said:

was reading about this last night on reddit. lot's of horrific 1st person accounts.  chaos. apparently security didn't check anyone's bag as they entered.  i'm guessing if they had it just would've meant the bomber triggering the bomb at the entrance instead of inside the concert.. weird that he waiting until the end of the show to blow himself up. 

 

a girl said it was right in front of her and she was covered in blood flesh and feces and trying to get it all out of her hair. fucking hell. sorry manchester.  scary for all the parents and kids. glad the locals came together and made spaces for the kids to hang out and wait to find their parents. 

The bomb wasn't triggered inside the concert, it was triggered in a publicly accessible area between Victoria Station and the Box Office. There would conceivably be no checks done there, because it's simply a public area.

 

So it's likely that the bomber wasn't even in attendance at the gig at all.

 

And as such, security checks would've done nothing. Perpetuating this 'narrative' only furthers pointless security theatre.

 

oh wow. hadn't read that anywhere. thanks for the accurate info. 

so, likely the bomber waited for the concert to let out then detonated.  such a shitty shitty thing. 

How do you reason with fuckers like this?  I honestly don't think you can - what a depressing world we live in

  On 5/23/2017 at 9:26 PM, ignatius said:

 

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:46 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/23/2017 at 8:28 PM, ignatius said:

was reading about this last night on reddit. lot's of horrific 1st person accounts.  chaos. apparently security didn't check anyone's bag as they entered.  i'm guessing if they had it just would've meant the bomber triggering the bomb at the entrance instead of inside the concert.. weird that he waiting until the end of the show to blow himself up. 

 

a girl said it was right in front of her and she was covered in blood flesh and feces and trying to get it all out of her hair. fucking hell. sorry manchester.  scary for all the parents and kids. glad the locals came together and made spaces for the kids to hang out and wait to find their parents. 

The bomb wasn't triggered inside the concert, it was triggered in a publicly accessible area between Victoria Station and the Box Office. There would conceivably be no checks done there, because it's simply a public area.

 

So it's likely that the bomber wasn't even in attendance at the gig at all.

 

And as such, security checks would've done nothing. Perpetuating this 'narrative' only furthers pointless security theatre.

 

 

 

oh wow. hadn't read that anywhere. thanks for the accurate info. 

 

so, likely the bomber waited for the concert to let out then detonated.  such a shitty shitty thing. 

 

Indeed.

The thing is though, you've just become a perfect example of what's going to happen now - people are going to make decisions based on faulty information, and security theatre is going to get ramped up to ridiculous levels again.

There are already idiots on social media calling for travel bans. The bomber was UK born, so a travel ban wouldn't have done shit.

Its never going to end. Pay attention to what they say. Watch docs. Read their own literature. This is not about us being mean to them. Or colonialism. Pay attention and get used to it

I like to think of the thousands who gather to peacefully mourn those who have died / been injured and reject a hateful response to hate, instead of listening to the few who say ridiculous things like 'turn the desert to glass' and so on. While I wish this kind of thing never happened, it seems to me the majority of people are rational in the face of such horror, and don't resort to knee-jerk reactions / actions, and will continue to do so.

Also, I think the media should stop calling them 'terrorists' and simply call them 'murderers'. If you want to demean what these murderers were trying to do, I can't think of anything better than calling them something other than what they would like to be called. Besides, as the public reactions have shown time and time again, there's little terror here: if anything, it's disgust and anger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40023488

"Military personnel may also be seen at other events, such as concerts, Mrs May said, and would work under the command of police officers."

  On 5/23/2017 at 10:54 PM, Bechuga said:

I like to think of the thousands who gather to peacefully mourn those who have died / been injured and reject a hateful response to hate, instead of listening to the few who say ridiculous things like 'turn the desert to glass' and so on. While I wish this kind of thing never happened, it seems to me the majority of people are rational in the face of such horror, and don't resort to knee-jerk reactions / actions, and will continue to do so.

 

Also, I think the media should stop calling them 'terrorists' and simply call them 'murderers'. If you want to demean what these murderers were trying to do, I can't think of anything better than calling them something other than what they would like to be called. Besides, as the public reactions have shown time and time again, there's little terror here: if anything, it's disgust and anger.

the media sucks. they need to get their act together on so many fronts. 

  On 5/23/2017 at 10:47 PM, marf said:

Its never going to end. Pay attention to what they say. Watch docs. Read their own literature. This is not about us being mean to them. Or colonialism. Pay attention and get used to it

was talking to a friend in UK who said similar -  "yeah.. not surprising.. that's gonna happen"

same over here in USA. we're probably overdue for a mass shooting :(

  On 5/23/2017 at 10:47 PM, marf said:

Its never going to end. Pay attention to what they say. Watch docs. Read their own literature. This is not about us being mean to them. Or colonialism. Pay attention and get used to it

Christian theocracy came to an end, no reason to think the same won't happen within Islam eventually. It's probably not going to happen any time in the near future though. You're right that it's not just about colonialism and more recent foreign policy fuck ups, but it would be wrong to say those things have nothing to do with it as well.

A friend of my landlord was the uncle of the 8 year old who died apparently. So horrible to think he probably deliberately targeted the show because there would be so many young people there, many kids out for their first ever concert (or at a minimum he didn't care, there's no way he wouldn't have known). I remember reading people giving justifications for the attack on the army school in Peshawar in 2014, where over a hundred children were killed; from their POV they were doing a service to the kids, preventing them from growing up in what they saw as a perversion of their faith (and this wasn't even ISIS, it was the Taliban), but because they were still innocents at least they would still go to heaven, which they wouldn't do otherwise.

I haven't had the chance to verify it, and obviously any poll should be taken with a huge grain of salt, but on another board I read someone linked to a new poll conducted this morning showing a spike to over 60% support for Brexit now.

I haven't been able to find any reference to any poll conducted since the bombing.

This is incredibly disheartening. You have to be a real monster to kill a bunch of kids at a concert.

The dude wanker had apparently just got back from Libya.

Fan's of Trump's travel ban will love this.

  On 5/24/2017 at 9:23 AM, fletcher said:

The dude wanker had apparently just got back from Libya.

 

Fan's of Trump's travel ban will love this.

But every case of these events happening have been from British born nationals.

So this travel ban would stop people leaving the UK too?

What's the point of all this security apparatus and blanket surveillance of everyone if they can't keep an eye on cunts returning from warzones?

  On 5/24/2017 at 10:06 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/24/2017 at 9:23 AM, fletcher said:

The dude wanker had apparently just got back from Libya.

 

Fan's of Trump's travel ban will love this.

But every case of these events happening have been from British born nationals.

 

So this travel ban would stop people leaving the UK too?

Libya is still in the middle of a civil war, paying close attention to people coming and going from the UK isn't exactly a bad idea

  On 5/24/2017 at 10:16 AM, Amen Warrior said:

 

  On 5/24/2017 at 10:06 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/24/2017 at 9:23 AM, fletcher said:

The dude wanker had apparently just got back from Libya.

 

Fan's of Trump's travel ban will love this.

But every case of these events happening have been from British born nationals.

 

So this travel ban would stop people leaving the UK too?

Libya is still in the middle of a civil war, paying close attention to people coming and going from the UK isn't exactly a bad idea

 

Yep.

if someone british born with Libyan parents wants to take a quick holiday to Libya whilst his parents are still in the UK, that kinda should be a trigger warning?

"Reason for travelling to libya today sir?"

"I want to make sure my nailbomb is correctly sanctioned by ISIS before I blow myself up"

I've been thinking about this the last few days, as you do when tragedies happen. I really don't see this stuff ending within my lifetime, as pessimistic as that sounds. At least I can't see a way that it ends quickly. What are the options?

You go and fight a ground war is Syria the way that apparently ISIS wants, send loads of boys and girls over to die and kill loads of people, then subsequent generations grow up twisted by continuing western intervention causing so many people to die. That seems like a cycle that just repeats forever. I'm not a historian and I don't claim to have in depth knowledge about this stuff so I may be speaking out of turn and always appreciate being corrected when I'm wrong, but if you take the claim that the anger towards the west is due to interventions for oil and whatnot since the gulf war then a further military exercise is just going to create more issues in future surely?

If ISIS's intention is to destabilize the west is their intention then it's working and it has been for a long time. They're not really a political entity as such, so it doesn't seem like it's possible to reason with them. If it's a holy war then surely it doesn't end until they've got what they want? That extremist mentality doesn't end in a peace treaty I wouldn't think. The thing with ISIS is that they don't actually have to do that much over here or in the states. You just need a rogue nutcase - and there'll always be a rogue nutcase - to blow something up, then you swoop in and take credit. I mean, of course they're going to take credit, doesn't matter if it's true or not. How are you going to prove it? Fax the blueprints of the plan?

So the reaction over here is incresed security, more government intervention as people get more and more scared. Where does it end other than with a gradual erosion of our civil liberties? I mean, they're attacking concerts for kids now. Kids are an emotive subject, you could argue that freedom of speech is more important but now kids are being targeted. That's going to sway your most hardline free speech lover at some point.

The issue obviously is exacerbated by the tabloid press. They sure are something, themselves a working example of how freedom of press can cause problems. You have a responsibility to report the news of course and incidents like this are something that people need to know about, but frankly tabloids are there to sell stories and it's very depressing to see how they report on the gruesome details. Minute by minute reports. I don't know, I just feel like it's psychological battery after a while of seeing major news channels playing footage from somebody's phone immediately after the explosion. Seeing the real panic and terror and people flee for their lives. It's bad enough that I have to imagine that, do we really need the constant videos of this sort of thing? Can we just have the news story without the sensationalism? After all the perpetrators know the attention they'll receive from these acts, the media is completely complicit. But what do you do? Do you start regulating what the press can put out? Surely not because that's fascistic. So what's the answer? It just seems like this same thing will keep happening and the reaction will always be the same.

Hypothetically speaking, and I know that this is a gross simplification, but if the west completely pulled out of the middle-east, abandoned all their interests there, do you think that in a couple of generations there would be peace and these situations would stop occurring?

Is part of human nature.. the cycle of hate is never ending.

  On 5/24/2017 at 11:51 AM, Obel said:

Hypothetically speaking, and I know that this is a gross simplification, but if the west completely pulled out of the middle-east, abandoned all their interests there, do you think that in a couple of generations there would be peace and these situations would stop occurring?

Personally yes, I do think this, although as you say it's a gross simplification. No matter how despotic the dictator, STABILITY is always better for the massive majority normal people like you and me that have to live in these countries. Western military action, regime change etc may seem moral and just but it really makes so many millions of day to day lives so much worse in the short to medium term, and is only a solution in the long term if we commit to helping these countries for decades afterwards (which we haven't been doing, at all).

  On 5/24/2017 at 12:23 PM, MIXL2 said:

Is part of human nature.. the cycle of hate is never ending.

True.

The bigger problem these days is that there are more of us, and without doing any sort of research, more faiths. And with globalisation / migration on the increase, more ideas cross-pollinate and these will lead to more conflict in interests and ideals

  On 5/24/2017 at 12:23 PM, Amen Warrior said:

 

  On 5/24/2017 at 11:51 AM, Obel said:

Hypothetically speaking, and I know that this is a gross simplification, but if the west completely pulled out of the middle-east, abandoned all their interests there, do you think that in a couple of generations there would be peace and these situations would stop occurring?

Personally yes, I do think this, although as you say it's a gross simplification. No matter how despotic the dictator, STABILITY is always better for the massive majority normal people like you and me that have to live in these countries. Western military action, regime change etc may seem moral and just but it really makes so many millions of day to day lives so much worse in the short to medium term, and is only a solution in the long term if we commit to helping these countries for decades afterwards (which we haven't been doing, at all).

 

I think so too. I just don't see it ever happening and I hate that I've become so cynical. The situation is just so murky, how do you even begin to fix it? Especially as like... a new president or something. You just inherit decades of shit.

That leads me to believe too that the sooner and the more we cut back our dependence on fossil fuels, the better - expand the industry on electric cars and other propulsion alternatives that don't involve internal combustion off of dead dinosaur juice that's been around for more than a century, thereby eliminating any need for conflict and destabilization in the Middle East. But that in itself is also probably oversimplifying and too idealistic.

It still pains me to wonder about the motive for the bombing though. Why Manchester, of all places? And why kids?

Motivation?

US singer raised through Disney / Nickelodeon with a big child / teen fanbase amongst the Brits.

If your plan is to cause maximum pain to a lot of predominantly white / British families and kick it to the Americans at the same time, it seems ideal.

But it's ok, his dad thinks he is innocent!