jordan peterson

  On 2/5/2018 at 6:54 PM, hello spiral said:

Always tickles me when Americans who believe everything they read on breitbart and /pol/ and tell me about how my deeply conservative country is actually now a sharia law zone/socialist dystopia/out-of-control disaster of liberalism and chaos

 

This is now the 3rd time on this board someone's inaccurately accused me of "believing everything on pol & Breitbart". It's a wildly inaccurate and amateur ad hominem that shows they actually have no counter argument.

Y'all just mad we got an awesome constitution written by badasses that guarantees freedom of speech while you risk social & legal repercussions for telling the truth.

Ahhh yes that bastion of freedom of expression (currently at number 43 on the world press freedom index) where the frickin president tells everyone to boycott an entire national sports league because some dudes kneeled down during a song.

this whole 'political correctness destroys CIVILIZATION!' line of thinking is so far removed from my day to day life it's hard to take threads like these seriously

  On 2/5/2018 at 9:50 PM, span said:

this whole 'political correctness destroys CIVILIZATION!' line of thinking is so far removed from my day to day life it's hard to take threads like these seriously

Well I've personally witnessed people be blacklisted from the music scenes I'm a part of because they dared to suggest gender exists, so it's real whether your head is in the sand or not.

  On 2/5/2018 at 9:42 PM, Brian Dance said:

Ahhh yes that bastion of freedom of expression (currently at number 43 on the world press freedom index) where the frickin president tells everyone to boycott an entire national sports league because some dudes kneeled down during a song.

Good thing we're free to ignore that buffoonery and watch anyway!

  On 2/5/2018 at 9:19 PM, autopilot said:

Y'all just mad we got an awesome constitution written by badasses that guarantees freedom of speech

flol

  Quote

 

 

this whole 'political correctness destroys CIVILIZATION!' line of thinking is so far removed from my day to day life it's hard to take threads like these seriously

I mean Peterson is right that 'postmodernism' is mostly silly nonsense (as many smarter people than him who actually seem to have read the primary sources have pointed out), that Marxism is a terrible and intellectually bankrupt idea (again, nothing new here), and that these schools of thought are prevalent in most western universities where they have a negative impact on the process of actually educating people to think properly (the idea that 'cultural marxism' is some kind of conspiracy is also stupid, I mean these people lecture about it, write books and papers and so on, it's not some kind of secret).

The notion that any of this is a currently a threat to western civilization though, let alone having actually actively damaged the core concepts of our modern society, is obviously hyperbolic nonsense (lol @ his tearful free-speech vid), these people lost the argument a long time ago and are mostly blathering away at the sidelines. It's important to call out this kind of nonsense when we see it (previous forms this thinking has taken were far more damaging to human society than Nazism), but it certainly seems to me that populist nationalism is a far more direct threat to our way of life than anything else right now (though even then, I don't think this poses all that much of a threat yet either, Trump has mostly been held in check by the edifice of US democracy, and the most obvious examples of this in action are fairly peripheral to western society - Russia and Turkey, or in the case of Poland/Czech/Austria are unlikely to have much impact on Europe as a whole, and hopefully won't be able to sustain themselves for long anyway).

His Jungian/Christian mythos stuff is pretty dumb too.

He's an interesting enough guy though I guess, engaging speaker, just needs to tone it down a notch and stop being so reductive about what are very complex ideas.

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, roasty said:

Doesn't change the facts that this culture exists in universities

 

Makes you wonder what might've happened to her if she didn't record it at all

A lot of culture exists in universities, from frat-bro haze raping to this bullshit. None of it is universal.

  On 2/5/2018 at 11:07 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, roasty said:

Doesn't change the facts that this culture exists in universities

 

Makes you wonder what might've happened to her if she didn't record it at all

A lot of culture exists in universities, from frat-bro haze raping to this bullshit. None of it is universal.

...that has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about...

  On 2/5/2018 at 11:11 PM, juiceciuj said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 11:07 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, roasty said:

Doesn't change the facts that this culture exists in universities

 

Makes you wonder what might've happened to her if she didn't record it at all

A lot of culture exists in universities, from frat-bro haze raping to this bullshit. None of it is universal.

...that has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about...

Sure it does. Culture exists at universities. It’s not universal. Nor is it even really widespread. It seems like it is because these types of incidents sell news.

Being fairly engaged in university life until recently, I can say that this type of activity exists mostly on the fringes here in canadian university culture.

And universities are exactly the place for this type of experiential activities to be taking place. They should be challenging environments (I did lol a little bit at the need for counseling straight outside the debate hall at that U of T debate on bill C-16), and should deal with issues like this, where people can experiment with different thoughts and norms.

in this thread i learned autopilot is dumb

ad hominem!1

  On 2/5/2018 at 9:55 PM, autopilot said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 9:50 PM, span said:

this whole 'political correctness destroys CIVILIZATION!' line of thinking is so far removed from my day to day life it's hard to take threads like these seriously

Well I've personally witnessed people be blacklisted from the music scenes I'm a part of because they dared to suggest gender exists, so it's real whether your head is in the sand or not.

 

 

This has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with ideology and tribalism, go to a fundamentalist church and tell them how god doesnt exists and jesus is bullshit, you'll be blacklisted too because it goes against their ideology, same with your music scene, its their ideology that gender its a social construct, go against it and you are blacklisted. Its probably some ancient leftovers from when we needed the tribe to be closed and secure from foreign invaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DruXykiH5V8

the slamming glass got me

  On 2/5/2018 at 11:18 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 11:11 PM, juiceciuj said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 11:07 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, roasty said:

Doesn't change the facts that this culture exists in universities

 

Makes you wonder what might've happened to her if she didn't record it at all

A lot of culture exists in universities, from frat-bro haze raping to this bullshit. None of it is universal.

...that has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about...

Sure it does. Culture exists at universities. It’s not universal. Nor is it even really widespread. It seems like it is because these types of incidents sell news.

Being fairly engaged in university life until recently, I can say that this type of activity exists mostly on the fringes here in canadian university culture.

And universities are exactly the place for this type of experiential activities to be taking place. They should be challenging environments (I did lol a little bit at the need for counseling straight outside the debate hall at that U of T debate on bill C-16), and should deal with issues like this, where people can experiment with different thoughts and norms.

but this portion of the discussion is about how a ta was brought before her board and told she had made two human rights violations by her direct superiors for showing a completely innocuous video. the very thing that peterson had been talking about re: c-16.

and the only reason anyone was able to have any discussion about the fact that this happened to this one person is because she had the forethought to record her conversation. there's no telling how many of these might've happened where the accused person didn't.

to then waltz in here and say "well some frat bros rape girls at uni" and then saunter out adds absolutely nothing to the discussion in the most frustrating way

chen's the kind of guy who saunters out of situations

  Quote

 

there's no telling how many of these might've happened where the accused person didn't.

i'm pretty sure you'd hear of it in every possible alt-right hole in the internet even if it wasn't recorded.

He cries in this one

jaysus, he's fucking everywhere.

  On 2/6/2018 at 2:19 AM, zaphod said:

the slamming glass got me

OoOoOh NoOoO-o-o-o-o-o

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:26 AM, roasty said:

He cries in this one

 

I think this succinctly reflects the problem with Peterson. he's mixing up helping young men sort their lives out with a supposed culture war that doesn't have a lot to do with their personal development (and which, imo arguably doesn't exist on a scale he's supposing).

young men are not depressed and fucked up because the more rabid leftists/weirdos consider them all tyrants or misogynists or whatever. I couldn't give a fuck what those people - some of whom are in my fb newsfeed constantly - have to say and how it relates to my life cos I just tune it out, and there is no practical effect of any of it on my wellbeing. young men are fucked up because of their experiences and realisations about the nature of the world, of people, and the terms and conditions of life itself. it's a mistake to mix all that up together with this other anti-SJW stuff.

this is why I'm supportive of Peterson's therapy in trying to help young men grow up through personal-psychological methods but he really veers off in the wrong direction when he starts talking about society at large.

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:51 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:26 AM, roasty said:

He cries in this one

 

 

I think this succinctly reflects the problem with Peterson. he's mixing up helping young men sort their lives out with a supposed culture war that doesn't have a lot to do with their personal development (and which, imo arguably doesn't exist on a scale he's supposing).

 

young men are not depressed and fucked up because the more rabid leftists/weirdos consider them all tyrants or misogynists or whatever. I couldn't give a fuck what those people - some of whom are in my fb newsfeed constantly - have to say and how it relates to my life cos I just tune it out, and there is no practical effect of any of it on my wellbeing. young men are fucked up because of their experiences and realisations about the nature of the world, of people, and the terms and conditions of life itself. it's a mistake to mix all that up together with this other anti-SJW stuff.

 

this is why I'm supportive of Peterson's therapy in trying to help young men grow up through personal-psychological methods but he really veers off in the wrong direction when he starts talking about society at large.

no offense but i don't think you're a particularly young man and your primary views of the world were probably shaped well before this entire movement came into form. he's probably not really talking about you in that case and i feel like he's probably referring to much younger and more impressionable people than you or i

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:51 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:26 AM, roasty said:

He cries in this one

 

 

I think this succinctly reflects the problem with Peterson. he's mixing up helping young men sort their lives out with a supposed culture war that doesn't have a lot to do with their personal development (and which, imo arguably doesn't exist on a scale he's supposing).

 

young men are not depressed and fucked up because the more rabid leftists/weirdos consider them all tyrants or misogynists or whatever. I couldn't give a fuck what those people - some of whom are in my fb newsfeed constantly - have to say and how it relates to my life cos I just tune it out, and there is no practical effect of any of it on my wellbeing. young men are fucked up because of their experiences and realisations about the nature of the world, of people, and the terms and conditions of life itself. it's a mistake to mix all that up together with this other anti-SJW stuff.

 

this is why I'm supportive of Peterson's therapy in trying to help young men grow up through personal-psychological methods but he really veers off in the wrong direction when he starts talking about society at large.

 

Yeah this is just not true, and many men's lives are literally ruined by hyperactive SJWs who push hard on sexual assault based interpretations of accusations of men saying hello and asking for a coffee date in elevators.  Anecdotal nature of this evidence aside, it happens and it's real and it may not be a part of your social sphere but it's real on university campuses for instance, the location he is primarily talking about and even talking at.

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:51 AM, usagi said:

 

  On 2/6/2018 at 3:26 AM, roasty said:

He cries in this one

 

 

I think this succinctly reflects the problem with Peterson. he's mixing up helping young men sort their lives out with a supposed culture war that doesn't have a lot to do with their personal development (and which, imo arguably doesn't exist on a scale he's supposing).

 

young men are not depressed and fucked up because the more rabid leftists/weirdos consider them all tyrants or misogynists or whatever. I couldn't give a fuck what those people - some of whom are in my fb newsfeed constantly - have to say and how it relates to my life cos I just tune it out, and there is no practical effect of any of it on my wellbeing. young men are fucked up because of their experiences and realisations about the nature of the world, of people, and the terms and conditions of life itself. it's a mistake to mix all that up together with this other anti-SJW stuff.

 

this is why I'm supportive of Peterson's therapy in trying to help young men grow up through personal-psychological methods but he really veers off in the wrong direction when he starts talking about society at large.

 

i heard him on his first rogan appearance and some of his self authoring shit seemed ok actually, but it felt like there was an ulterior motive behind a lot of it. i guess i'm allergic to any kind of for profit self improvement program, and i also wasn't a fan of peterson's dodging a lot of questions about whether he's christian and actually believes old testament theology. i think if he exposes his real beliefs suddenly all of his objections to gender pronouns aren't about free speech or the slippery slope into fascism but are revealed to just be part of a larger, bigoted ideology. i'll admit this is all conjecture, but i've listened to him speak enough times to feel out where he's at and what he's not spelling out for people. i also hate that he blames nebulous things like marxism and post modernism for, as you said, how fucked up young men are when the real cause is the economic reality of attempting to make a life in the first world, where you are part of a self perpetuating system that provides you with every tool you need to remain disadvantaged. i don't think he's saying anything that conservatives haven't been telling economically depressed people for decades. it's a tedious way of telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. great, clean your room, sort yourself out, but that might not be enough.