Veganism

  On 4/1/2019 at 3:17 PM, eugene said:

 

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your argument is based on the premise that killing a living being in order to transform it into an edible commodity is inherently wrong. i certainly disagree with that.

what's there to disagree with? maybe if there was no alternative it would be a more difficult issue, you'd have to consider which life is more important, yours or some other being's. but when there's a clear alternative that ideally doesn't involve anyone's suffering, then what argument are you left with? that you simply don't care enough?

 

i'm personally ok with animals being bred and killed so that we can eat their delicious meat, and while i despise the way they're treated on an industrial scale, i'm still happy to have access to their meat. does that make me a hypocrite? certainly. but is the killing inherently wrong? i doubt so. 

i'm not saying it's a "good thing" either btw. i think the killing of animals to exploit their meat is completely amoral. humans historically relied on animal meat as a food source, our society now has easy access to other food sources, but for systemic reasons the killing continues. you can blame mass marketing and many other things for that but as long as animals keep reproducing, our society will treat them as a food source and commodity, aside from pets, zoos and other exceptions.

  On 4/1/2019 at 4:37 PM, THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON said:

Great film, saw it the year it came out.

  On 4/1/2019 at 4:38 PM, Brian Tregaskin said:

 

  On 4/1/2019 at 3:17 PM, eugene said:

 

  Quote

your argument is based on the premise that killing a living being in order to transform it into an edible commodity is inherently wrong. i certainly disagree with that.

what's there to disagree with? maybe if there was no alternative it would be a more difficult issue, you'd have to consider which life is more important, yours or some other being's. but when there's a clear alternative that ideally doesn't involve anyone's suffering, then what argument are you left with? that you simply don't care enough?

 

i'm personally ok with animals being bred and killed so that we can eat their delicious meat, and while i despise the way they're treated on an industrial scale, i'm still happy to have access to their meat. does that make me a hypocrite? certainly. but is the killing inherently wrong? i doubt so. 

i'm not saying it's a "good thing" either btw. i think the killing of animals to exploit their meat is completely amoral. humans historically relied on animal meat as a food source, our society now has easy access to other food sources, but for systemic reasons the killing continues. you can blame mass marketing and many other things for that but as long as animals keep reproducing, our society will treat them as a food source and commodity, aside from pets, zoos and other exceptions.

If there was a limit on the number of humans, perhaps, Logan’s Run style, just to keep us focused

Agriculture was invented to feed large numbers of nomadic hunter-gatherers at ritual events in the Middle East around 11/10 thousand BC, but it wasn’t until the late 20th century AD that this was understood with any degree of subtlety, eg that it didn’t arrive in northern and western Europe for another 6 thousand years. Previously agriculture was understood as the Neolithic Revolution (Childe), economies of scale, more efficient, more leasure time, more condensed human populations in less dispersed settlements, enhanced diseases, smaller livestock and land as property to control agrarian economies

In archaeology it’s interpreted as the start of the modern age, but in lots of ways it was the evolution and honing of control systems that we’ve been tethered to ever since - no agriculture no towns, no towns no centralised control or city states, no cities no Mesopotamia, etc

I lived with veggies. They lived on Linda McCartney products, shit techno, pot noodles and chips, plus they never rinsed the shower/bath out after using it = post party debris ming, so fuck knows how vegans roll.

  On 4/1/2019 at 3:34 PM, MIXL2 said:

I pointed out an issue w that parallel a few pages back in that animals don't have the same access to agency as humans

 

edit: nobody has really responded to that point.. or did I miss it?

The Žižek thing? I always have a hard time following him but, what about all the humans who don't have acces to this "agency", to social exhanges etcetera. Do you think we should be eating them, too? That's "speciesism" for you.

  On 4/1/2019 at 8:40 PM, manmower said:

 

  On 4/1/2019 at 3:34 PM, MIXL2 said:

I pointed out an issue w that parallel a few pages back in that animals don't have the same access to agency as humansedit: nobody has really responded to that point.. or did I miss it?

The Žižek thing? I always have a hard time following him but, what about all the humans who don't have acces to this "agency", to social exhanges etcetera. Do you think we should be eating them, too? That's "speciesism" for you.

edit:

the older post for reference

That is what I'm saying, not all humans have a notion of rights either. Small children, the severely mentally ill,... it's a false distinction masking the true criterion being applied: species membership.

  On 4/1/2019 at 9:58 PM, manmower said:

That is what I'm saying, not all humans have a notion of rights either. Small children, the severely mentally ill,... it's a false distinction masking the true criterion being applied: species membership.

Completely agreed.  Unless you're okay with eating the mentally retarded and human babies you cannot use the lack of a being's awareness of ethics to justify eating that being.  Case closed.  If you want to disagree you have to find some other criteria through which retarded people and babies can be exempt while pigs/cows/chickens are not exempt, but the only criteria differing here is species membership, how very convenient

Even if you disregard that though it's very ironic that awareness of rights breaches upon eating others somehow gives you free reign to do it.  If anything, a lack of awareness is all that could give free reign i.e. animals get to eat each other because they're incapable of knowing better, but humans are not allowed to do so because we know better.  This Zizek argument is the opposite - we know better so we get to do it to them, but we don't get to do it to each other because we know better despite these people being protected by "knowing better" also doing it to animals despite knowing better.  The argument is complete bullshit basically

  On 4/1/2019 at 4:36 PM, zero said:

I had an Impossible burger yesterday. Wow, definitely blows the majority of veggie patty burgers out of the water. There was a moment where I thought, did they screw up my order and give me a beef burger instead? Really hard to tell the different taste wise. Read this morning that burger king is going to begin rolling Impossible whoppers out to select markets, and hopefully nationwide later.

I'm really looking forward to trying this.

  On 4/2/2019 at 4:00 AM, sweepstakes said:

 

  On 4/1/2019 at 4:36 PM, zero said:

I had an Impossible burger yesterday. Wow, definitely blows the majority of veggie patty burgers out of the water. There was a moment where I thought, did they screw up my order and give me a beef burger instead? Really hard to tell the different taste wise. Read this morning that burger king is going to begin rolling Impossible whoppers out to select markets, and hopefully nationwide later.

I'm really looking forward to trying this.

 

In Canada at least there is a meat substitute called "Beyond Meat"? Some of the major fast food chains such as A & W etc are offering it. I'm thinking it's the same thing?

Impossiburger sounds promising.

  On 4/2/2019 at 4:52 AM, ambermonk said:

Impossiburger sounds promising.

Plus it’s been endorsed by GZA

  On 4/2/2019 at 4:44 AM, Bulk VanderHooj said:

 

  On 4/2/2019 at 4:00 AM, sweepstakes said:

 

  On 4/1/2019 at 4:36 PM, zero said:

I had an Impossible burger yesterday. Wow, definitely blows the majority of veggie patty burgers out of the water. There was a moment where I thought, did they screw up my order and give me a beef burger instead? Really hard to tell the different taste wise. Read this morning that burger king is going to begin rolling Impossible whoppers out to select markets, and hopefully nationwide later.

I'm really looking forward to trying this.

 

 

In Canada at least there is a meat substitute called "Beyond Meat"? Some of the major fast food chains such as A & W etc are offering it. I'm thinking it's the same thing?

 

Beyond and Impossible are different brands.  In my opinion their names are dumb also, you shouldn't name products with generic words like this.  They're only saved by Google's semantic awareness. 

copied from a post last month:

https://forum.watmm.com/topic/73768-post-your-most-recent-burger/page-85?do=findComment&comment=2697179

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my last burger was a meat-free "beyond burger" similar to this.  it was pretty good and edible but it was hard to get down near the end once it turned cold.  it has an uncanny valley effect where it's really close to meat in both texture and taste but it's not quite there so your brain rejects it.  I think it's made of mushrooms and beets.  other vegan burgers that don't attempt to imitate meat but instead try to be their own thing are much more edible, like black bean burgers.  give them a try

I also had a Gardein Burger last week (some of the cheapest, you find it frozen in grocery stores) and it was the most accurate I've tried so far in emulating fast food burgers, I recommend trying it.

Beyond Burger (unfortunately one with yellow-dyed, coagulated cow udder excretions on top of it):

If you gave a Gardein burger to a carnist I guarantee you they wouldn't be able to tell that it's not a normal burger

It’s not vegan but the Linda Macartney mozzarella quarter pounders are banging.

Going vegan three days a week with a view to going full vegan in the future, let’s do this.

  On 4/2/2019 at 6:16 AM, Zeffolia said:

If you gave a Gardein burger to a carnist I guarantee you they wouldn't be able to tell that it's not a normal burger

I'd give it a go.

We had some broccoli burgers a while back and they were like eating cardboard, I had to douse them in hot and sour sauce to get any sort of taste out of them.

i remember quorn chicken patties being nearly indistinguishable from real chicken

When I eat vegetarian/vegan food I prefer it tastes like good vegetarian/vegan food and not like an imitation of meat.

Anyway I don't even know if it's that much the taste of meat I like but the kind of satisfying fullness I get from eating a big steak or whatever. It's very hard to achieve with vegetables. Eating a 500g steak makes me feel nice and full, eating 500g of vegetables makes me feel bloated and still somehow hungry. Cheese or cream helps but fuck if they are forbidden too.

  On 4/2/2019 at 3:00 PM, mokz said:

 Eating a 500g steak makes me feel nice and full, eating 500g of vegetables makes me feel bloated and still somehow hungry. 

Hormonal responses etc to the fats maybe? I don't know much about it.

http://highsteaks.com/carnivores-creed/owsley-the-bear-stanley/

Speaking of veganizm, I had some bbq brisket today that was fucking orgasmic. Kill an animal and reclaim what is human. 

  On 5/10/2019 at 8:50 PM, darreichungsform said:

 

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She should've just left the octopus alone in the first place.

  On 5/11/2019 at 5:48 AM, Candiru said:

Speaking of veganizm, I had some bbq brisket today that was fucking orgasmic. Kill an animal and reclaim what is human. 

multi-level ew

  On 5/11/2019 at 11:50 AM, Zeffolia said:

multi-level ew

In what way, shape, or form is there anything to say ew about here

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxVJMb3lmgQ/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet