What do you do when you’re really low?

  On 2/25/2020 at 5:19 PM, cwmbrancity said:

Find that Schlitze burger pic

i wanna see

  On 2/25/2020 at 7:05 PM, beer badger said:

I eat bad food, I drink loads of alcohol and smoke. I punish myself. Into the ground, and beyond. I don't listen to music. I don't do anything positive. I get up for work, the only essential thing I need to do, beyond that I continue the punishment.

This might last 2 weeks, then some part of my brain kicks in. If I go past this time frame, I know I am in trouble. Thankfully in the last decade this never continues more than 2 weeks

The curing starts off on Monday. I rise early. The evening before I have prepared all my food. Diet is the main key. I must never stray from my healthy diet, which is not extreme. But the Monday must start off with healthy fruit, vegetables and a breakfast bowl of simple porridge. I do as much exercise as I can (usually cycling to work and going for a simple run at lunch time). By mid-day I am already feeling like a fucking Shaolin Monk. I continue with this by meditating in the evening. All the pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. The absolute essential thing to do now is to stay the fuck away from alcohol.  One sip, and the whole thing come crashing down. So I wake up on Tuesday morning and the whole world is a different place. And so I continue with my healthy diet, no booze, zero smokes, meditation, music is all of a sudden the best thing in the world, I'm reading books, etc etc. The weekend comes and I enjoy my drink.

I go through this strange cycle of being a brilliant human being for about 5 weeks, then Satan appears in my veins and I go off the fucking grid for 1 week (drink, smoke, drugs) I then endure the above (basically the same, but without the drugs). Then I need to get back. 

I sometimes wonder what this very strange Jekyll and Hyde character come from. I really wish to annihilate the bad side of me.   

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Amazing

  On 2/25/2020 at 8:27 PM, Schlitze said:

Thread is a pathetic attempt by old gramps to tap into the current “feels“ culture. Jaded old snowflake trying to manipulate the fragile emotions of the next generation. Not fooling me. Go on, git! 

Hey, this attack was much better than the last one! I see that you are regaining your cognitive abilities, slowly but steadily, and soon we can reintegrate you into society. Good job!

  On 2/25/2020 at 12:19 PM, milkface said:

i go out alone in nature with my music in my ears, makes me realise that the world itself isnt shit, it's people.

I've been doing this a lot lately while in between jobs here... walking daily with my tunes, listening to whole albums I haven't heard in years. It really helps.

same as i'm happy, drinking and smoking and listen to tunes while watching funny cat video's

I've been taking citalopram for just over a year now. It really has been remarkably good. Zero downsides.

(I also smash fuck loads of wine)

way back in the day (college years), I used to write it all out. like just start writing down my scattered thoughts & feelings. I think in some cathartic way I was trying to get to the root of the problem, rambling through words on paper to figure out why I felt the way I did. 

just back in the day (10 years ago), I used to sit and stare out the window of my apartment all night, watching an empty street, listening to music, and smoking cigarettes. just wallowing in it, feeling sad and pathetic. hating my job, wondering why my social life wasn't where I thought it would be at this point, and all that other stuff. 

now since I decided to have a family, I kind of feel like I don't get to feel sad anymore. kids just suck all the sad out of you. it's like I'm too distracted with all the other life shit to stop and feel much of anything. I suppose that's what the yet-to-come mid-life crisis is all about.

dunno about clinical depression but if you're just depressed or sad in general you can always watch some animal shows, specially young animals/cubs or even shows that show you how things are done and stuff like that that challenge/distract your brain...

btw, all you guys who do meditate, did you learn it by yourself?

another thing, have any of you tried this? i think @cwmbrancitydid...
Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing

it's not a panacea, but it works, access & waiting lists are the problem, trippiest post-session dreams of your life makes H Bosch look like an infant

guided imagery & music/GIM is something to dig into, not the same as EMDR but evidence-based, far more gentle, experience soul flight w/out psychedelics

an elderly relative crochets

  On 2/25/2020 at 9:51 PM, Hugh Mughnus said:

I've been doing this a lot lately while in between jobs here... walking daily with my tunes, listening to whole albums I haven't heard in years. It really helps.

It's absolutely amazing and I associate calm serenity with all of the songs I would listen to back at home. Those walks will stick with me for the rest of my life.

  On 2/25/2020 at 11:24 PM, Tim_J said:

btw, all you guys who do meditate, did you learn it by yourself?

From a teacher, which is really the only way to do it properly for a variety of reasons. However the best book I've seen for shamatha and adjunctive meditations was Alan Wallace's The Attention Revolution; as it teaches from a traditional Buddhist standpoint yet is geared towards both Buddhists and non-Buddhists alike in a step-by-step manner. In my experience other books are either too geared towards Buddhist students, or come from authors which don't really know what they're talking about.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Attention-Revolution-Unlocking-Focused-v-ution/dp/0861712765

There's also an Alan Wallace shamatha retreat audio series here: https://archive.org/details/ShamathaRetreatWithAlanWallace2012

In an odd way, generic tiki music and space age jazz/bachelor pad-type music seems to help me a lot. It's so devoid of emotion and so kitschy they I just don't have an emotional response from it.

If I wake up feeling shite I try to start the day by watering/generally tending to my garden and it always helps the rest of the day. Not staring at a screen can do wonders.

I’ve spent the past couple days being like - today is the day I start taking care of myself - and then I chain smoke and have a glass or two of gin before I get in the shower to start the day 

but actually I’m gonna start tomorrow

It always stems from some type of imbalance, you have to know your body to know which type. Exercise and resistance training has the most immediate effect by far. Stop social media/internet usage, alcohol, caffeine, bad food, toxic people. A lot of depression is probably just fatigue from spending energy in the wrong directions - worry etc. 

  On 2/25/2020 at 11:24 PM, Tim_J said:

btw, all you guys who do meditate, did you learn it by yourself?

It's fairly easy to figure out by yourself if you have an autodidactic mindset and are willing to invest in good sources. But it demands a lot of attention and routine which is why I wouldn't recommend it as a quick fix when you're down. You have to redirect your normal priorities and habits to give it the right amount of attention, and without knowing the benefit beforehand it's super hard to find the motivation. It's so difficult to step outside of the thought carousel that you're not doing it right and wasting your time. I started many years ago and it took at least six months for me to see any profound benefit. Just practicing breath counting and diaphragm breathing teaches you the hang of it within days, but I didn't imagine the return would be anything more than that minor initial relief so I didn't really apply myself. I'm convinced that if people knew what it can do they'd make it a #1 priority. The trick is to start practicing when you've got energy to spend as it has an insular effect. It's like riding a bike, you can easily get back in that headspace even if you haven't meditated in a long while.  

  On 2/27/2020 at 5:36 AM, jules said:

I’ve spent the past couple days being like - today is the day I start taking care of myself - and then I chain smoke and have a glass or two of gin before I get in the shower to start the day 

but actually I’m gonna start tomorrow

yep

Re meditation question, agree with Chim that it can be autodidactic, and the fruits come when you truly apply yourself to it. I think a teacher or guided setting can certainly help channel your focus in the right way but so can just being inspired.

I read a book by thich naht hahn that inspired me, he posits the core of meditation is nothing more than active mindfulness, but that attitude can permeate your life. So mindful [aka focus on my] breathing is always where I start.  There's a bit where he talks about doing tasks like cleaning dishes with the utmost mindfulness that always stuck with me

  On 2/27/2020 at 6:50 AM, markedone said:

There's a bit where he talks about doing tasks like cleaning dishes with the utmost mindfulness that always stuck with me

How I feel about house chores is actually how I gauge my mental well-being. Resistance-inducing activities are very revealing. 

  On 2/27/2020 at 6:10 AM, chim said:

It always stems from some type of imbalance, you have to know your body to know which type. Exercise and resistance training has the most immediate effect by far. Stop social media/internet usage, alcohol, caffeine, bad food, toxic people. A lot of depression is probably just fatigue from spending energy in the wrong directions - worry etc. 

not always. those fixes may work for many or at times for some, but there's no catch-all, there's no 'always' when it comes to this stuff.

  On 2/27/2020 at 12:45 PM, auxien said:

not always. those fixes may work for many or at times for some, but there's no catch-all, there's no 'always' when it comes to this stuff.

I'm not sure how clinical the stuff we're talking about here is. You have to at least rule out lifestyle issues. The prognosis for depression is intertwined with your outlook to a degree you don't see with other psych conditions. It's no use to resign to whatever physiological or environmental obstacles you may have. 

  On 2/27/2020 at 2:32 PM, chim said:

I'm not sure how clinical the stuff we're talking about here is. You have to at least rule out lifestyle issues. The prognosis for depression is intertwined with your outlook to a degree you don't see with other psych conditions. It's no use to resign to whatever physiological or environmental obstacles you may have. 

clinical?

like i acknowledged, lifestyle issues are a large or small part of things for some people, or maybe all of it for certain persons. but it’s not always just things like that which is what you seemed to be saying. implication there is “oh if you’re depressed or low or whatever you’re just not working hard enough to figure out and change why”

  On 2/27/2020 at 4:21 PM, auxien said:

clinical?

like i acknowledged, lifestyle issues are a large or small part of things for some people, or maybe all of it for certain persons. but it’s not always just things like that which is what you seemed to be saying. implication there is “oh if you’re depressed or low or whatever you’re just not working hard enough to figure out and change why”

I agree that that's not a great summary of the case. But I think clinical depression and appropriate treatment is a different beast than a general state of "functioning" malaise. The former is a mess with everything from trauma to malfunctioning thyroids and neurotransmitters. The latter case is abundant with people that don't deal with their shit, and the depression surfaces when the normal momentary escape methods aren't working anymore. Then there's the lack of valuable relationships, being dissatisfied with your career etc. The whole spectrum isn't easy to deal with but motivation is usually the biggest obstacle, which is something you have to build up to with the smaller changes. And what prevents that willingness to try new things but a habitual myopia? I work in psychiatry and see the same thing in clinical (institutional) situations, but at that point the person is physically unable to do anything about their situation, and has spent decades developing an intricate web of resignation to prohibit the possibility of any successful treatment. Depression is a serious problem that I think carries an insanely high proclivity today due to our way of life - it's astounding that more people aren't profoundly dissatisfied and manage to stay occupied. We aren't wired for the lifestyle we lead, we're super vulnerable to its pitfalls and you need a decent amount of structure and self-knowledge to prevent them overpowering your right to happiness and meaning. 

For what it's worth Buproprion was instrumental in my own dealing with depression. Not as a magic mood cure but it kicked my system into activity and allowed the necessary lifestyle changes when I didn't have the energy before. I still believe you can brute force your way out of those situations unless there's an actual physiological cause, but it's very hard.