NOT Coronavirus COVID-19

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  On 2/3/2022 at 2:24 PM, Satans Little Helper said:

I suspect things got lost in translation. Especially when it comes to the term "endgame". Some might think it means the end of the virus. While others might think it's not the end of the virus, but a transition of the virus into something which is more similar to influenza. In which case the endgame refers more to the end of the various lockdowns and other national strategies to keep the virus in check.

the UK are lifting restrictions completely, and a month earlier than planned, without apparent specific scientific involvement in making that move. political cover for brexit disasters and other central political failings has seen the pandemic turn from useful to politicians to increasingly risky for the public. the transition has to come, but it's shortened by stresses to the system that were very avoidable and predictable. financial pressure is being shifted onto those still willing and able to spend on isolation, tests and lockdowns. only splitting hairs to describe the events that have occurred over the last two years allows for attempts at dismissing it all as unprecedented. the planet, however, has seen pandemics before, and this one continues with much political or societal hubris and complacency exacerbating it.

as much as people are tired and want to move on, infections have no awareness of this, but can take advantage of it. you'll be seeing hospitalisations, deaths and mandates / antivax stuff being very visible in the news for several years or more still, i guess. by then you'll be even more tired of it all, but you'll have moved on and left some behind. far from fading into accepted annual loss of life due to endemic illness, as per influenza and other more accepted illnesses, the appearance of covid during a time so able to document and communicate the experience from all levels will make this harder to accept as 'done'. it will more likely reemerge as an issue that will tie back to a longer-term known contemporary set of stories and issues, due to the more reliably global nature of it than infections that hit parts of the world, or age groups across it. anyone can get it, anyone can spread it. and there's billions of us.

and i guess this is covid news? or is it "america news" or election 2020 news? idk. but seems like the trucker type road block over vaccines is coming to america

Long Covid is quite worrying. It has been brushed to the side but studies like this remind us that this bloody thing is full of surprises.

  On 2/12/2022 at 6:09 PM, ignatius said:

 

 

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I heard a story on NPR on this particular issue a couple days ago. It makes me feel better for sheltering the baby (and myself) from exposure. Luckily no one here has had it but my mom and stepdad just got it this past week. Thankfully, both of them are vaccinated. They live in the south and have been really careful up until recently but I could tell they were getting “COVID fatigue” and letting their guard down a bit more, eating inside restaurants/etc. Then… bang. Go figure. 
The recent news about the Pfizer approval being delayed for 6m-5y olds is so frustrating. I read an article saying the FDA wanted avoid any optics of incomplete results in order to curb any response of hesitancy from the critical public. It rubs to know it’s safe to get the baby jabbed but it has to wait now until April at the earliest. 
Another sobering reality about COVID, my elderly neighbor passed away 2 days ago (not from COVID, fortunately) but they backlog of burials is up to 3 months in our area because of the number of deaths from COVID. Anyone saying the pandemic is basically over needs to check their shit. 

  On 2/12/2022 at 7:28 PM, J3FF3R00 said:

Another sobering reality about COVID, my elderly neighbor passed away 2 days ago (not from COVID, fortunately) but they backlog of burials is up to 3 months in our area because of the number of deaths from COVID.

that's grim. i think it's been like that off and on most of the last 2 years. 

It seems like most countries in Europe are lifting most of their covid-19-restrictions.

I guess the idea is to make covid-19 endemic, with the idea of its mutations becoming less fatal and less hospitalizing, treating it like other common infectious respiratory diseases, creating natural resistance to it among the population, with a voluntary yearly vaccination.

... Or maybe its just to make society breath again, for a while, before maybe having to restrict again.

We'll see how things evolve from here. Let's hope for the best. Fingers crossed. It's not over yet.

"Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future..."

  On 2/12/2022 at 6:33 PM, thefxbip said:

Long Covid is quite worrying

I think this is the thing that people can't see with the omicron variant, because while the actual symptoms of infection may be lesser than with the previous variants, all the heart, lung, respiratory, and whatever other issues remain. 

  On 2/13/2022 at 3:49 PM, chenGOD said:

I think this is the thing that people can't see with the omicron variant, because while the actual symptoms of infection may be lesser than with the previous variants, all the heart, lung, respiratory, and whatever other issues remain. 

do you have any references for this?

  On 2/13/2022 at 4:18 PM, nikisoko said:

do you have any references for this?

there's been lot's of studies already and many articles written about long covid and inflammation in even asymptomatic cases. from the article i posted here which is quoted on this page:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00403-0

  Quote

 

Even a mild case of COVID-19 can increase a person’s risk of cardiovascular problems for at least a year after diagnosis, a new study¹ shows. Researchers found that rates of many conditions, such as heart failure and stroke, were substantially higher in people who had recovered from COVID-19 than in similar people who hadn’t had the disease.

What’s more, the risk was elevated even for those who were under 65 years of age and lacked risk factors, such as obesity or diabetes.

“It doesn’t matter if you are young or old, it doesn’t matter if you smoked, or you didn’t,” says study co-author Ziyad Al-Aly at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri, and the chief of research and development for the Veterans Affairs (VA) St. Louis Health Care System. “The risk was there.”

Troubled hearts

People who had recovered from COVID-19 showed stark increases in 20 cardiovascular problems over the year after infection. For example, they were 52% more likely to have had a stroke than the contemporary control group, meaning that, out of every 1,000 people studied, there were around 4 more people in the COVID-19 group than in the control group who experienced stroke.

The risk of heart failure increased by 72%, or around 12 more people in the COVID-19 group per 1,000 studied. Hospitalization increased the likelihood of future cardiovascular complications, but even people who avoided hospitalization were at higher risk for many conditions.

“I am actually surprised by these findings that cardiovascular complications of COVID can last so long,” Hossein Ardehali, a cardiologist at Northwestern University in Chicago, Illinois, wrote in an e-mail to Nature. Because severe disease increased the risk of complications much more than mild disease, Ardehali wrote, “it is important that those who are not vaccinated get their vaccine immediately”.

 

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  On 2/13/2022 at 4:18 PM, nikisoko said:

do you have any references for this?

Well, it's pretty well established that COVID causes heart issues: https://www.science.org/content/article/covid-19-takes-serious-toll-heart-health-full-year-after-recovery

And while the risk may be less with the Omicron variant (according to one cardiologist?? lol I don't know how accurate that information is), it is clearly not nil. So like many of the discussions around this, it will come down to risk tolerance, cost-benefit analysis, etc. etc.

I wouldn't say the Danish model is the best to follow...https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/dk

Hospitals run a significant risk of being overwhelmed again (check out the spike after Feb 1):

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/current-covid-patients-hospital?country=~DNK

i was aware that long covid is a thing, but i wasnt/am not sure what the conclusion is on omnicron. obviously theres going to be more long term information on a strain that has been around for years vs last november.  being naive, i would assume that since omicron does go as deep into your lungs, the long term effects would be different. not arguing, just looking for info.

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:36 PM, nikisoko said:

i was aware that long covid is a thing, but i wasnt/am not sure what the conclusion is on omnicron. obviously theres going to be more long term information on a strain that has been around for years vs last november.  being naive, i would assume that since omicron does go as deep into your lungs, the long term effects would be different. not arguing, just looking for info.

i think vax'd vs unvax'd of course makes a difference too. unvax'd people are getting hit pretty hard still. i'd guess the results would be similar for them. if they don't die they're gonna be dealing w/a lot of after effects potentially. if long covid rates are similar to delta etc then that's kind of an answer right there.  i haven't searched for omicron specific data on this though... i'm sure those details will come sooner or later. 

so far looks like all variants cause the same type of general inflammation based on the things i've read.

edit: quick googled brought up these articles.

https://www.indiatvnews.com/health/can-you-get-long-covid-after-an-infection-with-omicron-doctors-explain-2022-02-10-758946

https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/12/23/22850161/omicron-variant-long-haul-covid-wave-february

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:42 PM, ignatius said:

i think vax'd vs unvax'd of course makes a difference too. unvax'd people are getting hit pretty hard still. i'd guess the results would be similar for them. if they don't die they're gonna be dealing w/a lot of after effects potentially. if long covid rates are similar to delta etc then that's kind of an answer right there.  i haven't searched for omicron specific data on this though... i'm sure those details will come sooner or later. 

so far looks like all variants cause the same type of general inflammation based on the things i've read.

edit: quick googled brought up these articles.

https://www.indiatvnews.com/health/can-you-get-long-covid-after-an-infection-with-omicron-doctors-explain-2022-02-10-758946

https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/12/23/22850161/omicron-variant-long-haul-covid-wave-february

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ok but that article has one doctor saying this-

Dr. Bruce Patterson, who works for single cell diagnostic company IncellDx and the Chronic Covid Treatment Center, told the Deseret News that it’s too early to see long COVID-19 patients from the omicron variant.

• “I suppose in February we’ll see a massive wave,” he said.

The other article says  "It’s too early to know for sure, but many doctors believe it’s possible to have long-term effects from the omicron variant of the virus"

that is not a scientific conclusion in any way shape or form.  again, not arguing but i think people should wait for actual info, which due to the nature of the symptoms has to take a while.

I wonder if in the next few years ahead, cold season will become a time where you have to be careful by default and where there will be more restrictions and health measures by default.

And when the heat comes back in late spring everything opens more. Outside gatherings are way safer after all. I can see that happening.

I mean...there has been long covid with every variant. Would be a bit over optimistic to think there will be none with Omicron. We may not know for sure but there is a pattern there. The virus attacks so many organs including the brain.

The amount of vaccinated people will probably help tho.

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:48 PM, nikisoko said:

ok but that article has one doctor saying this-

Dr. Bruce Patterson, who works for single cell diagnostic company IncellDx and the Chronic Covid Treatment Center, told the Deseret News that it’s too early to see long COVID-19 patients from the omicron variant.

• “I suppose in February we’ll see a massive wave,” he said.

 

The other article says  "It’s too early to know for sure, but many doctors believe it’s possible to have long-term effects from the omicron variant of the virus"

that is not a scientific conclusion in any way shape or form.  again, not arguing but i think people should wait for actual info, which due to the nature of the symptoms has to take a while.

 

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yeah i know.. not arguing either.. just saying i'd be surprised if suddenly long covid goes away with a variant that infected so many people who were unvaccinated and had serious complications and hospitalization from infection. i guess anything is possible but if all the doctors are saying "we don't know for sure but we're expecting a big wave of long covid patients in february".. that's kind of an answer for me. it'll be interesting to see what the data shows. 

stands to reason that long covid is part of the disease possibilities of all variants. but as you say the data may show something different. it makes me no less afraid of omicron vs delta, regardless. 

edit: also, i think it wouldn't be surprising if the risk of long covid was reduced with omicron but to think it will just go away is doubtful. it's fundamentally the same disease especially for unvax'd people. i think long covid will be a part of it regardless of variant... at least in some people and certainly in people who got really sick and had to be hospitalized. 

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:36 PM, nikisoko said:

i was aware that long covid is a thing, but i wasnt/am not sure what the conclusion is on omnicron. obviously theres going to be more long term information on a strain that has been around for years vs last november.  being naive, i would assume that since omicron does go as deep into your lungs, the long term effects would be different. not arguing, just looking for info.

Totally reasonable question, and I wasn't assuming you were arguing, hope my response didn't come across as combative.

I think you're right, we'll have to wait and see for the long-term effects to be better understood with omicron, but I'm of the opinion that we should take preventative measures until we better understand that risk.

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:32 PM, chenGOD said:

I wouldn't say the Danish model is the best to follow...https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/dk

Things are going ok. A lot of infected people but the vast majority only gets a mild cold and a soar throat. Also, the hospitals are doing ok because at the moment only 9 people in all of Denmark are in respirators. Currently there are about 1200 in the hospital but the majority of them are sent home within a day or two. 
I only know very few people who haven’t had it yet (myself included). The only one I know of who have been in any kind of danger was my father-in-law who has like a quarter of a kidney left and who also managed to get pneumonia at the same time. 

One of my good friends who eats up all the conspiracy theories he can get a hold of and who hasn’t been vaccinated has just tested positive and feels like sit. My schadenfreude is a 10/10. 

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:56 PM, chenGOD said:

Totally reasonable question, and I wasn't assuming you were arguing, hope my response didn't come across as combative.

not combative at all, i wasnt just stressing that since this is kind of a touchy subject unfortunately, and also i find myself going around this forum arguing about stupid stuff so its possible people might assume im arguing about this. for whats its worth, im mostly holed up in my house. i do some outdoor dinning on occasion but other than that and groceries, still pretty locked down. i just think the information on omicron is incomplete at this point.

Was reading an article the other day about long covid.

When you have the bad luck of catching that bullet on the covid roulette oh boy does it sucks. People having 5% of their usual energy, not able to read books anymore, barely can prepare meal, being so tired they cant work, no concentration, have to walk with a cane,headaches, pain etc. etc.

People in their 30s,40s,50s.

Really fucking sucks.

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:57 PM, Squee said:

Things are going ok. A lot of infected people but the vast majority only gets a mild cold and a soar throat. Also, the hospitals are doing ok because at the moment only 9 people in all of Denmark are in respirators. Currently there are about 1200 in the hospital but the majority of them are sent home within a day or two. 
I only know very few people who haven’t had it yet (myself included). The only one I know of who have been in any kind of danger was my father-in-law who has like a quarter of a kidney left and who also managed to get pneumonia at the same time. 

One of my good friends who eats up all the conspiracy theories he can get a hold of and who hasn’t been vaccinated has just tested positive and feels like sit. My schadenfreude is a 10/10. 

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https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/current-covid-patients-hospital?country=~DNK

1,300 and climbing, and even if they're sent home relatively quickly, that's still a massive surge the hospitals have to deal with, and obviously you don't want to bring in people who have pre-existing conditions to wards full of people with a highly contagious variant of COVID...maybe they should build a COVID only hospital?

  On 2/13/2022 at 6:57 PM, Squee said:

One of my good friends who eats up all the conspiracy theories he can get a hold of and who hasn’t been vaccinated has just tested positive and feels like sit. My schadenfreude is a 10/10. 

Sadly all of the people I know who have COVID have been vaxxed..so no schadenfrude available yet. The good news is, because they've been vaxxed, symptoms are very mild.

New Zealand plays Barry Manilow to repel parliament protesters

Authorities in New Zealand have been playing Barry Manilow's greatest hits in an attempt to dislodge protesters camped outside the parliament building.

Songs by the US singer are being played on a 15-minute loop, along with the Spanish dance tune, Macarena.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60362529

re:  long COVID, sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it, but are any of these studies accounting for vaccination status?  Last I heard, long COVID was significantly less likely overall for vaccinated individuals with breakthrough cases.

  On 2/13/2022 at 9:48 PM, toaoaoad said:

re:  long COVID, sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it, but are any of these studies accounting for vaccination status?  Last I heard, long COVID was significantly less likely overall for vaccinated individuals with breakthrough cases.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-long-covid-less-common-in-fully-vaccinated-uk-health-agency-says-12542755