What's the deal with computer music?

I happen to be a part of a very small global demographic, and it's one that I happily align myself with:  people who actually like computer music.

I've been looking at more releases in this school of music lately and I came to the realization of just how small this community is.  It seems that the only people who really know what computer music is are the ones who learned about it from the actual musicians themselves — at conservatories that specialize in computer music.  Artists like John Wall and Bjarni Gunnarson are very respected in these institutions, and yet nobody knows their names outside of them.  Even Curtis Roads, who makes a living publishing books about the genre, is almost entirely unknown even within electronic music circles.

My question is this:  if computer music appears to be so irrelevant in mainstream culture, how is it that entire institutions exist just to teach it to people?  Why are students deciding to spend their college education learning about this microgenre?  And why are the musicians putting such immense amounts of labor into their works without any apparent concern for whether they actually get heard?

If any of you here are involved in the computer music community, could you please enlighten an amateur enthusiast?

  On 2/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, drillkicker said:

Bjarni Gunnarson

he's one half of Einoma which is excellent imo. i have one of his solo releases.. Safn 2006 - 2009 (2010) - which i haven't listened to in a while but like. 

a lot of the stuff i've heard has an 'academic' tinge to it or something but maybe that's just how it sounds. when i had a job in a synth shop we sold records too and would get lot's of reissues of older computer music things.. some of which was cool and some which didn't do anything for me. i tend not to differentiate between genres so much when it comes to electronic music that is experimental in some way and just assume it's all electronic music and i find stuff i like and that's that. 

isn't Curtis Roads a professor somewhere? as well as writing books he's a teacher and that's his day job? idk. don't really follow him. only heard about him when he opened for autechre in LA in 2000 or whenever that was.

  On 2/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, drillkicker said:

I happen to be a part of a very small global demographic, and it's one that I happily align myself with:  people who actually like computer music.

There are 7 billion people in the world, many of whom don't speak any languages in common with you. 0.05% of that is 35 million. Now I pulled that number straight out of my ass, but not an unreasonable assumption.

  On 2/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, drillkicker said:

how is it that entire institutions exist just to teach it to people? 

Because artists enjoy creating art, and many people recognize that art is important to developing culture. In Canada for example, the Canadian ElectroAcoustic Community is an organization that promotes electroacoustic music. It is funded by SOCAN and the Canada Council For the Arts (one of the government bodies in Canada responsible for promoting arts and culture). It has a great jukebox online at SONUS.

Korea has a similar organization: The Korea Electro-Acoustic Music Society. They have an international music festival, which is amazing.

I don't know if Japan has a similar society, but I would guess so (I talk about those three countries cause I know them best).

The point is that although it may be niche, governments and private foundations recognize that culture is multifaceted, and they want to promote and nurture the arts. That's why those institutes exist (and also in some cases, people pay).

  On 2/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, drillkicker said:

why are the musicians putting such immense amounts of labor into their works without any apparent concern for whether they actually get heard?

Because they love creating art?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_music

[quote=wikipedia]Computer music is the application of computing technology in music composition, to help human composers create new music or to have computers independently create music, such as with algorithmic composition programs. It includes the theory and application of new and existing computer software technologies and basic aspects of music, such as sound synthesis, digital signal processing, sound design, sonic diffusion, acoustics, electrical engineering and psychoacoustics. The field of computer music can trace its roots back to the origins of electronic music, and the first experiments and innovations with electronic instruments at the turn of the 20th century.[/quote]

can it be said that this most high level of abstraction of the field trickles down to mainstream consumers and eventually into pop music?

  On 2/10/2022 at 10:51 PM, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

can it be said that this most high level of abstraction of the field trickles down to mainstream consumers and eventually into pop music?

Yes. There are many examples of “high” culture influencing “low” culture. The same holds true the other way as well. 

Didn't you answer your own question, sort of? It's not in mainstream media because it's a niche culture, it's studied academically because it's part of niche music, which in the 21st century is enough for it to merit/sustain itself in media. And I guess the artists are putting in the amount of work exactly because of the genre? It's not pop, it's not dance music, it's meant to be viewed as clockwork of sorts, which let's be honest most people don't exactly vibe with.

Post some examples of this computer music pls (NOT Autechre) 

  On 2/11/2022 at 1:31 AM, cern said:

Post some examples of this computer music pls (NOT Autechre) 

Check the sonus link that’s in my first response. It’s free! 
or just throw the names of the three composers drillkicker mentioned into youtube. Curtis Roads is pretty accessible.

I had a sandwich with Mario Davidovsky at the first Harvard Computer Music Conference in the early 2000s (got free admission through my school, I didn't go to Harvard or anything) and he said that he only wrote chamber music because everythign that could possibly be done with computer music and electronic music had already been done by 1971, and everything anyone had done since then was redundant and derivative. I'm paraphrasing but that was the sentiment.

  On 2/11/2022 at 1:36 AM, chenGOD said:

Check the sonus link that’s in my first response. It’s free! 
or just throw the names of the three composers drillkicker mentioned into youtube. Curtis Roads is pretty accessible.

Cool stuff.. Made me thinking about "Or some computer music" which feature 1 Aphex track. 

IIRC he had a turkey sandwich.

  On 2/11/2022 at 1:45 AM, TubularCorporation said:

IIRC he had a turkey sandwich.

Probably because every other sandwich is redundant and derivative.

  On 2/11/2022 at 1:42 AM, TubularCorporation said:

I had a sandwich with Mario Davidovsky at the first Harvard Computer Music Conference in the early 2000s (got free admission through my school, I didn't go to Harvard or anything) and he said that he only wrote chamber music because everythign that could possibly be done with computer music and electronic music had already been done by 1971, and everything anyone had done since then was redundant and derivative. I'm paraphrasing but that was the sentiment.

Couldnt you say exactly the same thing about chamber music?  I think these people are just threatened by new technology personally.

Theyre like the people who shit on bitcoin just because they didnt buy it when they had the chance.

  On 2/11/2022 at 3:19 AM, drillkicker said:

Couldnt you say exactly the same thing about chamber music?  I think these people are just threatened by new technology personally.

Theyre like the people who shit on bitcoin just because they didnt buy it when they had the chance.

Tobe fair, I did misrepresent things a little to make it funnier. What really happened was in a panel discussion about the future of electronic music he said he quit using all electronics in 1971 because "everything that can be done with them has already been done" and then I had a sandwich with him later that day.

  On 2/11/2022 at 1:42 AM, TubularCorporation said:

he only wrote chamber music because everythign that could possibly be done with computer music and electronic music had already been done by 1971,

  On 2/11/2022 at 3:25 AM, TubularCorporation said:

Tobe fair, I did misrepresent things a little to make it funnier. What really happened was in a panel discussion about the future of electronic music he said he quit using all electronics in 1971 because "everything that can be done with them has already been done" and then I had a sandwich with him later that day.

Maybe that's because not much could be done with them in 1971

Big book, small scene. 

  On 2/11/2022 at 6:24 AM, psn said:

Big book, small scene. 

Show them how its done psn, We believe In you! Not the Computer scene 

One of the biggest books on my shelf, actually.   

love Mark Fell and the likes but Rashad Becker's live was one of the most insane things I ever saw. felt like I came out straight from a beating. the way he used the Nord micro modulars made it Computer Music to my ears. they're programmed on the computer after all. also proved what a seasoned mastering engineer is capable of, making a modest JBL rig sound like Funktion Ones

the setup:

It’s not a genre imo bc when you say “computer music” you say nothing much about the music itself except about the technical side of its origin. 

Like Drum n Bass? 

  On 2/11/2022 at 9:49 AM, psn said:

Like Drum n Bass? 

Lol yes, much more than ‘computer music’ bc at least some parameters are known ahead, like usual timbres, usual global feelings, usual percussive elements, tempos/bpm, that it’s primarily a dance music … then you have combinations of dnb elements with other genres and that’s where it starts to be complicated again

Electro acoustic computer music 

Intel i7-12800HE music