Ableton Live 12

  On 11/6/2024 at 11:23 PM, kuniklo said:

You've tried Renoise right?

Of course, even though my licence isn't up to date. Great great bit of software but I'm deep into Live/M4L/Max/Push ecosystem.

I'd wager it's a WIP, Live has more and more built-in KB control and it can be somehow reminiscent to working with a tracker (the KB-driven workflow and having all your patterns exposed on screen being why I love Renoise / trackers FWIW).

An option would be to patch a tracker in M4L (I did some extremely rudimentary tests a while ago, it can be done). Leafcutter John did something similar in Max a few years ago.

  On 11/7/2024 at 12:22 PM, Nil said:

An option would be to patch a tracker in M4L (I did some extremely rudimentary tests a while ago, it can be done).

We've got sooooo close, I'd love him to expand on what he's already done with multiple channels and increased pattern length:

https://encoderaudio.sellfy.store/p/ufg9/

How do you guys use ableton? arrange or session? audio or midi?

  On 11/19/2024 at 8:15 PM, Crazing said:

How do you guys use ableton? arrange or session? audio or midi?

All of it!

Midi controlling vst/external gear and record it to different audio channels and working with that in the main arranger. 
I always have Clip View Available, it is highly recommend for better controlling each channels. 

I go to session view for volume gain control each channels. It is where you have an overview of all the channels. 

 

  On 11/19/2024 at 8:15 PM, Crazing said:

How do you guys use ableton? arrange or session? audio or midi?

i use the session to build up lots of material and the quickly make different sections via scenes and then those get locked down and polished via the arrangement. sometimes i take way too long to get to the arrangement step

  On 11/19/2024 at 8:15 PM, Crazing said:

How do you guys use ableton? arrange or session? audio or midi?

I build up a huge folder of 8 bar loops in session mode and then never actually release any tracks.

It's quite good, actually my main daw now.

recently bought it again after weighing up the max upgrade....and i think the editing is not really what its good for, the workflow is fun.

the whole session arrange thing seems to work best for me if i work in arrangement view and then consolidate parts into session rather than vice versa

be nice if they had formant processing like bitwig or proper editing in the clip view for audio....but whatever...software has the fking kitchen sink in it nowadays...what more do we really need

  On 11/20/2024 at 12:29 PM, Crazing said:

be nice if they had formant processing like bitwig

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding exactly what you require, but you can just add a formant max4live device on the audio track and automate it directly on the sample view:

My god any tip on how to fix latency with my BS2 connected via USB-Midi. If I Lower the sample buffer it is just so noisy and shit. Need to have it all set to over 2000 and that is a whole lots of latency introduce. 

Is there any technique for Live to trigger my Midi channel some mili-seconds earlier? 

  On 11/20/2024 at 5:21 PM, cern said:

My god any tip on how to fix latency with my BS2 connected via USB-Midi. If I Lower the sample buffer it is just so noisy and shit. Need to have it all set to over 2000 and that is a whole lots of latency introduce. 

Is there any technique for Live to trigger my Midi channel some mili-seconds earlier? 

2 seconds of latency is pretty insane lol. Your CPU might be struggling to buffer the amount of data but that shouldn't be the case really. What are your specs? Is this a new issue suddenly?

  On 11/20/2024 at 12:29 PM, Crazing said:

recently bought it again after weighing up the max upgrade....and i think the editing is not really what its good for, the workflow is fun.

the whole session arrange thing seems to work best for me if i work in arrangement view and then consolidate parts into session rather than vice versa

be nice if they had formant processing like bitwig or proper editing in the clip view for audio....but whatever...software has the fking kitchen sink in it nowadays...what more do we really need

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Editing in Logic is much much better than ableton, i’ve ranted about this before so i could just link to those rants… but having m4l, push, session view, more modern automation features  etc kind of outweigh it at least for creating new things. if something requires a ton of editing i can just port part or all of the session into logic and the bring back the edits or perhaps just use Logic to finish the track. Kind of an annoying flow though. 

  On 11/20/2024 at 5:42 PM, exitonly said:

Editing in Logic is much much better than ableton, i’ve ranted about this before so i could just link to those rants… but having m4l, push, session view, more modern automation features  etc kind of outweigh it at least for creating new things. if something requires a ton of editing i can just port part or all of the session into logic and the bring back the edits or perhaps just use Logic to finish the track. Kind of an annoying flow though. 

i've always hated editing audio in logic. idk why.. but it's always felt fucky. i got really fast in ableton w/audio. i like mixing in logic though.. been using it since like v 2.7 or something..  there's a lot that's really comfortable in logic and recently they've improved routing between channels and stuff but it's still catching up to modern workflows in some ways.. i was hopeful they'd modernize the environment window to make it simpler for doing weird shit. i used to know some of that and could build simple midi things but haven't done anything w/it in forever. 

need to create a new thread of favourite max for live devices unless there already is one

  On 11/20/2024 at 5:48 PM, ignatius said:

i've always hated editing audio in logic. idk why.. but it's always felt fucky. i got really fast in ableton w/audio. i like mixing in logic though.. been using it since like v 2.7 or something..  there's a lot that's really comfortable in logic and recently they've improved routing between channels and stuff but it's still catching up to modern workflows in some ways.. i was hopeful they'd modernize the environment window to make it simpler for doing weird shit. i used to know some of that and could build simple midi things but haven't done anything w/it in forever. 

round about 8 or so I loved the editing of logic....never could get to grips with the environment...seemed like they never made it that accessible....i remember plaid used to be well into it

  On 11/20/2024 at 6:40 PM, Crazing said:

round about 8 or so I loved the editing of logic....never could get to grips with the environment...seemed like they never made it that accessible....i remember plaid used to be well into it

sean said LP5 was doing max like things w/midi in the environment window.. building stuff. i had some sequencers and random arpeggiator stuff and did some routing for midi controllers but that was it and it was always kinda over my head and never really clicked w/a big "oh ah ha..." type moment. 

plaid still plays live w/logic i think.. using 'touch tracks' and stuff. you can put whole sequences on one key if you want so you can play a track w/keys. 

the big things for me that Logic has, which are missing from Live are

• keyboard shortcut to go to the next/previous transient
• ability to slice regions by transient. you can do this to a drum rack in ableton but I often just want it in the arrange window
• ability to strip silence from a region, creation a bunch of new regions
• ability to edit settings on regions in mass, including quantization, fade in/out/xover, gain etc
• built in midi editor/selector tool so you can select notes based on various criteria. There are M4L devices that a similar but still not the same as built in
• destructive audio editor built in
• i prefer the sample/region edit/arrange setup in Logic compared to having the clip edit/arrange tabs in Ableton. Clips having their own timeline is confusing AF when editing in the arrange window
• Logic's midi integration follows midi standards where Live seems to do some weird magic and ignores midi channels in the midi editor. Even using M4L you cant specify the midi channel across devices for individual notes

With regards to the Logic environment... I've actually used it quite a bit and it can be fun for a bit of retro-computing to program things in it but honestly Max and Max For Live are just so much better for this kind of thing I wouldnt bother. I doubt they will ever update it but you never know.

Here is an old video of Ed from Plaid showing some Logic environment stuff:

  On 11/20/2024 at 8:08 PM, exitonly said:

built in midi editor/selector tool so you can select notes based on various criteria. There are M4L devices that a similar but still not the same as built in

This was added in 12, or 12.1 (can't remember exactly which, but it's in there now)

edit: it was 12.1

  On 11/20/2024 at 6:26 PM, Crazing said:

need to create a new thread of favourite max for live devices unless there already is one

Do it

  On 11/20/2024 at 8:08 PM, exitonly said:

I doubt they will ever update it but you never know.

they won't. it's already hidden unless you press a modifier key. they're trying to get rid of it i think. 

the audio editing got improved massively in Ableton back in...11, i think? i've used it for editing audio in multiple ways since then, tho i still fall back to Audacity for some tasks. it's not got the focus on it that it seems like Logic has based on the above, but i think audio editing in Ableton is pretty solid now.

  On 11/20/2024 at 4:57 PM, mcbpete said:

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding exactly what you require, but you can just add a formant max4live device on the audio track and automate it directly on the sample view:

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looks interesting, and that page lead me to Robert Henke's page that had some older M4L things he'd built on there...some might be redundant with recent Live updates, not delved in yet, but still good...

  On 11/20/2024 at 9:46 PM, oscillik said:

This was added in 12, or 12.1 (can't remember exactly which, but it's in there now)

i missed this one. thanks!

the note transformation tools are really good...just be nice to have a way to connect them to key commands....logical editor and macros in cubase is awesome

  On 11/20/2024 at 5:34 PM, chronical said:

2 seconds of latency is pretty insane lol. Your CPU might be struggling to buffer the amount of data but that shouldn't be the case really. What are your specs? Is this a new issue suddenly?

Cheers man! Now I got it all working. 

I don't know but sometimes it is just not working well but sometimes I just got it right, I have 32 GB RAM and I have a Ryzen AMD gaming computer. 
I mean it is not the best choice maybe for Live but the CPU meter is always under 20% 

Can u tell me what u have on your input and output buffer? 

I have Output buffer 5200 Samples and Input Buffer 688 Samples

Maybe I need to get the ERM Multiclock for some tight sync!

Maybe a dumb question but how do you go from "a bunch of clips in session view" to "organising a track in arrangement view" ? I mean what is the most logical way to do it ? I really need to sit down and RTFM but my music production time is limited so of course I'm trying to learn by practicing...