squarepusher How to make the amen sound like go spastic's one

I decided days ago (months now) to start a track using the amen (I almost never use it) and actually end it. Like always, I'll start programming some, then get bored of it because the sound suck major ass. And since I want to do a track where the most important thing are the drums, then bass, then other things, the amen ruins the whole thing because it sounds cheap.

I think I have no problems anymore in terms of programming, since I can write what im hearing on my head quite easily. The problems come with "how it sounds". I tried with all sort of processing crap, wouldn't get it sounding properly. I can say this is what limits me atm (this is why I care enought to write such an huge post).

Now listen to this:

gospastic.mp3

This fragment is pure genius. This is possibly the most clever usage of the amen ever. Squarepusher is basically doing the melody with it. While the bass is not being the main character there, still is totally needed to make the whole thing work. In fact, the bass is fuckin huge and deep there.

But since this thread is not about beat programming, lets focus on the sound itself.

The first thing I notice is the usage of panning. It is done in a way that you wouldn't figure from where the sound is exactly coming, but at the same time is not lacking from any of the two channels. I think I hear the "main drums" (the amen) a *little* bit coming more from the left, or just sometimes, or maybe they are centered and its Tom playing tricks on my brains.

Hows its done? I dont know. Maybe he used stereo enhancement stuff for everything, and manual pan tweaking when he wanted to make you clearly notice how something was coming from one channel or another (for example, kicks at 0:06 - 0:07). Btw, I highly recommend using headphones when it comes to panning.

Then comes the main thing: Processing.

The way the amen sounds is doing the trick there. That smooth sound, coming not directly on your face but still extremly powerful, and the usage of compression (sounds like it) that makes the kicks sound like nuclear detonations, (same example, 0:06 - 0:07) is made out of win. I can also hear some kind of reverb at cleverly selected snare hits that helps to create that melody I was talking about (I hope you know what im talking about there). This is noticeable exactly on 0:08 (yeah, not doesn't seem like a big deal, but think that the sum of everthing, including all those little things, is what makes one go apeshit).

There must be some EQ going, but im not an expert on this department.

Effect wise, theres a crapload more, but I consider those "extra things" that are not interfering with the purpose of this thread.

Theres another break going at the same time. I think im sure its exactly the same you hear at the beginning of the track, but since is perfectly compaginated with the amen, and the amen takes the main role on this part, you'll need to pay some attention to notice it. I think I have this break on my "drumloops folder", but can't remember the name now. It sounds similar to the think break, but it isn't.

Thats pretty much all. Just wanted to create a thread about it, and hopefully get the watmm masters of processing (I suppose there's people with bast knowledge here) posting something, attaching examples etc.

Finally, this is not about mimicking Squarepusher, basically because you'll fail at the atempt. This is about trying to get that certain sound while learning on the process, latter using those knowledges as a base to create new things.

i didn't read all your thread before i listened to the sample. I was going to say 'why are you asking for advice, cos your clip sounds awesome, but i see now that the clip is actually by squarepusher :")

My off the top of my head guess is that

1. he's using a tracker

2. got a high pass filter on it

3. degraded a bit (maybe with a slight pitch shift) hard compressed with a long attack to retain the snap and resampled.

Slow attack on sample and hold

Pitch bending crashes

Time stretching snare loops

Time stretching crashes

Pitch shifting snares

Pitch shifting crashes

Gate

Reverb

Reverse

Compress

Fun

the main problem is that you arent doing any EQing. just some simple EQ tweaking should be enough to make an amen break sound good... its the amen break, it sounds good already

Errr buy an Eventide orville.

using a tracker lol

hrmm ...

  Slumlord said:

Slow attack on sample and hold

Pitch bending crashes

Time stretching snare loops

Time stretching crashes

Pitch shifting snares

Pitch shifting crashes

Gate

Reverb

Reverse

Compress

Fun

yeah, as someone said, he's using an eventide orville. buy one of them and you can start to appropriate the processing going on.

get into tracking for the sequencing.

learn to mix.

and you're done, and about four and a half grand poorer :)

:)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7151113034799368505

  GORDO said:

:)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7151113034799368505

Whatever it is, is not working.

  welcome to the machine said:

yeah, as someone said, he's using an eventide orville. buy one of them and you can start to appropriate the processing going on.

 

get into tracking for the sequencing.

 

learn to mix.

 

and you're done, and about four and a half grand poorer :)

I dont know since never used one, but would you say it is totally needed to expend four and a half to get a similar sound?

That video seems like it goes over just about every technique, but I didn't watch the whole way through.

Most of it asode from chopping is letting the sample pitch up naturally with the tempo, reinforce the kick with a bass sine stab, gate out the highs & add some new ones, go nuts with the automation.

  chenGOD said:

Errr buy an Eventide orville.

 

using a tracker lol

higher class stupidity?

  stolemb said:

  welcome to the machine said:

yeah, as someone said, he's using an eventide orville. buy one of them and you can start to appropriate the processing going on.

 

get into tracking for the sequencing.

 

learn to mix.

 

and you're done, and about four and a half grand poorer :)

 

I dont know since never used one, but would you say it is totally needed to expend four and a half to get a similar sound?

im extremely skeptical that Squarepusher used an Eventide Orville on Go Plastic, maybe for some of the reverb bursts but overall most of the effects are standard computer DSP stuff that sounds a lot less high quality to my ears than a hardware Eventide device.

I honestly think artists like Squarepusher drop names like Eventide to give their music a mystical high brow aura that most people think is unmatchable unless they buy expensive equipment. Its a method of musical cock blocking. Richard Devine does it also in claiming he extensively uses a Kyma which is obviously not the case.

Aphex twin is the only one who seems to actually be doing this for real (not fake cock clocking attempts). His song GX1 solo sounds like he really is using an ultra expensive GX1. Something that 99.99% of people on earth will never be able to afford. So to sum up my post Squarepusher lies in his interviews by dropping Eventide as a red herring, and Aphex actually can talk the talk and walk the walk.

And lets just assume for a second that Squarepusher actually did use primarily an Eventide orville on Go Plastic. He would have to record a raw amen track running it through a different effect many times over and when he had all the tracks aligned with each other would have to cut out pieces from each pass and assemble them all back together.

These type of quick effects changes are much easier accomplished through effect automation OR even easier (but more time consuming) using non real time effects to print slices you've made of an already existing amen track. Basically if you used an Eventide Orville to recreate Go Plastic you'd be doing a shit load more work than you would be doing on strictly a computer for essentially the same result. |If you wanted to go through the exact same steps squarepusher has been theorized to have gone through to make go plastic you'd be doing some majorly ass backwards shit and spending a lot of money

He was renting it at the time... Also, SP doesn't strike me as the kind of liar that a lot of the other artists seem to be about equipment. Wasn't he the one mentioning using a shitty Casio to make a lot of the sounds on his current album in Modulations? Just doesn't seem the name dropping type and is usually reluctant to name the equipment he does use.

  Quote

f you wanted to go through the exact same steps squarepusher has been theorized to have gone through to make go plastic you'd be doing some majorly ass backwards shit and spending a lot of money

None of us really know what steps he took, so... I don't know. He does, at least it would seem so, know a lot about his equipment... Considering he's using his own patches, he can probably whip things up pretty quickly.

Well regardless of what he actually used to do it, you can do that with a tracker for $0 and 00 cents.

didn't aphex tell us he used to build his own synths, he's got cassettes with over 100,000 tracks and the like.

RDJ is full of shit and Tom Jenkinson is full of shit.

  mosca said:

didn't aphex tell us he used to build his own synths, he's got cassettes with over 100,000 tracks and the like.

 

RDJ is full of shit and Tom Jenkinson is full of shit.

this guy is a smart guy

i aint smart

i tells it like i sees it

sometime i sees it right

somtime i sees it wrung

Here's that Snares on Renoise vid, again.

http://www.youtube.com/?v=zGK-EzEa45U

i dont really get what advantages renoise provides... anyone?

  Coalbucket PI said:

i dont really get what advantages renoise provides... anyone?

http://tutorials.renoise.com/1.5/?n=Renoise.EffectCommands

guys you need an eventide to cut up a sampled break, everyone knows that

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