Time signatures, the heart beat of music

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

I have found its pretty neat to combine 5/4 with 3/4 at the end of a measure

lol

That would make sense though idrn, wether you were writing in 3/4 or 4/4 if after a number of bars you threw in a 3/4 and then a 5/4 your perception would be thrown because of the beat emphasis.

of course you could achieve the same affect without even changing the time signature, but thats true of any change in signature, the new numbers on the side are there to make it easier to understand from a written perspective. if you place accents on certain notes the feel of the signature will change anyway.

can't decide whether this thread is just sad or pure comedy.

i'd go with the latter, check out some crazy beat emphasis

crazytimesignaturesyo.wavFetching info...

putting snares and kicks on anything other than the downbeat is mental

seriously, most time signatures can go fuck themselves. if i say, put the 'down beat' 1/16th before the next bar marker, then bring the next 'down beat' onto the next bar marker, then do intermittent 'down beats' on every three 1/8ths until it reaches a multiple of 2 in bars, then that is some mad time signature shit right there. but i call it awesome jungle.

  Braintree said:

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

hahaha I've read the rules, as extremely unconventional and non-sense as it may be I did compose a track in reason that was set at 11/11. I do not lie.

 

I could find a thread on EKT about time signatures at all with the search function.

 

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

This is the point where the conversation gets shitty

 

I don't think you understand what 11/11 means. Just because you set the computer to say it's 11/11 doesn't make it so. You can set the signature to 6/8, but write it for 12. As modey mentioned, you probably wrote it for 11/8, because 11/11 would only be used for a quick run of 11 notes for offset another rhythm. Like how Stravinsky will throw in a bar of 8/8 after several bars of 4/4 or 2/4.

 

By the way, sonically, any rhythm can be written in any time signature. It's a moot point.

11/11 = 11/8 was already established much earlier(without any need for a sandy vagina) and I definitely understand it. What I don't see is how I broke the rules or how this is problem. I stated that I'm quite ignorant and I know people on here love to talk down to noob's when they dont know exactly whats going on so I was giving you a gift im sure. I like to talk sometimes but its quite obvious how watmm's desire to talk shit gets a litte bit out of hand sometimes.

like Idrn trying to laugh at me for stating putting 5/4 at the end of a 3/4 measure. Im quite aware what they equal out to at the end of the measure(thats one of the reasons they work together so well) but not only the feel is completely different than if it were 8/8. (EDIT:also I was referring to using something like 3/4 for like 6 measures and then 5/4 on the 7th which would basically cut off the last note of an 8th 3/4 measure but sounds pretty smooth. sorry if I did not describe what I meant better)

I just listened to that mp3, minor lol'ed.

I've only been composing outside of 3/4 and 4/4 and my one venture in 11/8(3 or so years ago) for a little less than a month but I'm going to make a track tonight that I will probably post on here demonstrating that even a noob can make groovy head bobbing shit without having to constantly use 4/4 and 3/4 all the time.

I told you it was going to get shitty.

haha I probably could have foreseen the bickering...

OMG i just heard Venetian Snares uses 7/4 in his tracks? whoa how does the 7 fit in the 4, like, is that why his beats are so fast?

I N S A N E !

srsly, some people are talking bout time signatures here as if it were pure science, when it clearly isn't.

time signatures, it is just how you count, so when playing some real instrument with your hands/feet it helps with syncopations and that's it, period

(save for teh basic stuff like 6/8, 5/4 etc for basic feel of a song etc)

  plangplang said:

OMG i just heard Venetian Snares uses 7/4 in his tracks? whoa how does the 7 fit in the 4, like, is that why his beats are so fast?

I N S A N E !

 

srsly, some people are talking bout time signatures here as if it were pure science, when it clearly isn't.

time signatures, it is just how you count, so when playing some real instrument with your hands/feet it helps with syncopations and that's it, period

 

 

(save for teh basic stuff like 6/8, 5/4 etc for basic feel of a song etc)

Your point being? :shade:

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

  Braintree said:

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

hahaha I've read the rules, as extremely unconventional and non-sense as it may be I did compose a track in reason that was set at 11/11. I do not lie.

 

I could find a thread on EKT about time signatures at all with the search function.

 

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

This is the point where the conversation gets shitty

 

I don't think you understand what 11/11 means. Just because you set the computer to say it's 11/11 doesn't make it so. You can set the signature to 6/8, but write it for 12. As modey mentioned, you probably wrote it for 11/8, because 11/11 would only be used for a quick run of 11 notes for offset another rhythm. Like how Stravinsky will throw in a bar of 8/8 after several bars of 4/4 or 2/4.

 

By the way, sonically, any rhythm can be written in any time signature. It's a moot point.

 

11/11 = 11/8 was already established much earlier(without any need for a sandy vagina) and I definitely understand it. What I don't see is how I broke the rules or how this is problem. I stated that I'm quite ignorant and I know people on here love to talk down to noob's when they dont know exactly whats going on so I was giving you a gift im sure. I like to talk sometimes but its quite obvious how watmm's desire to talk shit gets a litte bit out of hand sometimes.

 

like Idrn trying to laugh at me for stating putting 5/4 at the end of a 3/4 measure. Im quite aware what they equal out to at the end of the measure(thats one of the reasons they work together so well) but not only the feel is completely different than if it were 8/8. (EDIT:also I was referring to using something like 3/4 for like 6 measures and then 5/4 on the 7th which would basically cut off the last note of an 8th 3/4 measure but sounds pretty smooth. sorry if I did not describe what I meant better)

 

I just listened to that mp3, minor lol'ed.

 

 

 

I've only been composing outside of 3/4 and 4/4 and my one venture in 11/8(3 or so years ago) for a little less than a month but I'm going to make a track tonight that I will probably post on here demonstrating that even a noob can make groovy head bobbing shit without having to constantly use 4/4 and 3/4 all the time.

11/11 does not equal 11/8 . to achieve 11/11 you would have to have the main rythmic emphasis as a stream of 11 notes, over the top of a base of either 12 or 10 notes, so that when it returns to the start of the bar the 11 notes have fit into exactly the same time as 12 (or 10). this would be stupidly hard to play, and would sound rubbish used constantly anyway.

i dont see why you have to be so stuck-up about it braintree, if you know whats gwan'in on then just correct people, or dont bother atall. no need to be condescending in EKT

I'm a jerk.

yeah im not trying to be a dick, its just if some guy comes in looking for info on time signatures and blatantly says he doesnt really know about them, it'd be better to just explain why 11/11 is a ridiculous signature rather than just say that his chatting is shitty.

  Quote

srsly, some people are talking bout time signatures here as if it were pure science, when it clearly isn't.

time signatures, it is just how you count, so when playing some real instrument with your hands/feet it helps with syncopations and that's it, period

this, from plangplang aswell is just not true. time signatures are interesting i think, and on a forum of musicians i dont see why any post in this thread would be deemed 'sad'

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

  Glass Plate said:

I use lots of old drum machines etc. So I stick with the 4/4 though I try to deconstruct the tempo and rhythms with delay and etc. some times

 

I really dont see any advantage at all in using old drum machines.. why not take these old relics and sample them put em into quality software and have complete freedom, which has cost to the sound or any disadvantage at all.

1. you're a faggot (once you called Animal Collective better than Aphex twin, I dont care what you say. It's ok for you to think that, it just shows what you like more. It's obviously not electronic music)

2. I circuit bend them and have them all synced together, and I enjoy the interface better.

btw you guys you should read a Michael Daughter piece of sheet music. I've played is Red Cape Tango from the Metropolis symphony in band before, and I think the 11 minute piece had like 200+ time signature changes, and 64th, 15th, and i think even 27th notes and shit. Some of the most ridiculous runs etc. Yet at the end you can't really tell all that much. A lot of fun though his stuff. (at the same time it's also really formulaic and not ground really all that ground breaking, I guess that's what you get for composing in the 90's and beyond.)

  Glass Plate said:

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

  Glass Plate said:

I use lots of old drum machines etc. So I stick with the 4/4 though I try to deconstruct the tempo and rhythms with delay and etc. some times

 

I really dont see any advantage at all in using old drum machines.. why not take these old relics and sample them put em into quality software and have complete freedom, which has cost to the sound or any disadvantage at all.

 

1. you're a faggot (once you called Animal Collective better than Aphex twin, I dont care what you say. It's ok for you to think that, it just shows what you like more. It's obviously not electronic music)

 

2. I circuit bend them and have them all synced together, and I enjoy the interface better.

lol, I dont think ive ever heard of animal collective, I probably will find out who the fuck they are so as Im sure it would give me a chuckle

circuit bending is crazy I would like to hear what kind of sounds your getting outta them machines.

urf, at least this thread has made me go and look it up for myself to see who is talking pure pish or not. (actually thats a lie but i might later, with the confusion in here it seems the most sensible course of action). as a tracker working in different time signatures is easy - just change the number of rows to something that's not a power of 2- but i generally have no idea what they actually are without chucking loops into cubase or something with markers.

despite this always leading to arguments on here i'd maintain that like the rest of music theory there's no real need to find out, knowing what it is you have done is only useful for talking about it or writing(printing) scores for other people.

[edit] - oh and do most drum machines not have the facility to run patterns of less than 16 and thus other time sigs?

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

  Glass Plate said:

  Blanket Fort Collapse said:

  Glass Plate said:

I use lots of old drum machines etc. So I stick with the 4/4 though I try to deconstruct the tempo and rhythms with delay and etc. some times

 

I really dont see any advantage at all in using old drum machines.. why not take these old relics and sample them put em into quality software and have complete freedom, which has cost to the sound or any disadvantage at all.

 

1. you're a faggot (once you called Animal Collective better than Aphex twin, I dont care what you say. It's ok for you to think that, it just shows what you like more. It's obviously not electronic music)

 

2. I circuit bend them and have them all synced together, and I enjoy the interface better.

 

lol, I dont think ive ever heard of animal collective, I probably will find out who the fuck they are so as Im sure it would give me a chuckle

 

 

circuit bending is crazy I would like to hear what kind of sounds your getting outta them machines.

oh wait I had mistaken you for benedict crumb

  greenbank said:

[edit] - oh and do most drum machines not have the facility to run patterns of less than 16 and thus other time sigs?

I think 2 of the 3 do, but then I'm still syncing it with like 4 other devices, and it'd be too much trouble to get it to work at all.

Ever since my friend got my into Dream Theater I've been dropping beats and putting in extras all over the place. I have a tune that's not quite finished that manages to do 10 bar phrases and a switch between 4/4 and 6/4 that sounds natural - that was fun.

11/8 seems to be what most songs come out of me as, although I do 10/4 and 7/4 every now and then.

I rarely post up the music I've been making over the last 10 years, but here is a sample of one of my tracks. I want to know who can tell what time signature its in!

growing_in_relation_sample.mp3Fetching info...

nice tune. cant be bothered figuring the time signature. at a guess its largely 4/4 with the odd bar of 3 or 5 beats.

  messiaen said:

nice tune. cant be bothered figuring the time signature. at a guess its largely 4/4 with the odd bar of 3 or 5 beats.

Thanks man ! You pretty much got it, the time signature is 11/8, which could be viewed as two measures in 4, followed by a measure of 3.

Wow, that track is 5 years old now. When I went to make the snippet I didn't realize how bad the production was, so I took a few minutes with some EQ and compression to clean up the mix a bit. I think that was due to doing all of my mixing on a horrid 8-channel Behringer board and little coke bottle sized computer speakers back then. Now that I have my Mackie 24-8 desk and Truth monitors my production quality has increased ten-fold. The meter bridge on the Mackie is such an essential tool for my mixing now, I don't know how I worked without it before.

I never change the time sig, I just change the perceived time sig in my music. It's easier to stick to 4/4 and paste a 3/4 of measure loop over and over next each other in order to achieve polyrhytmic stuff. I like to keep if 4/4. I also like to divide an eight beat measure into 7 equal notes, thats screws with the mind for sure, I use my sequencers midi slicer feature for that trick. it cuts a note into X equally spaced pieces. So I just take a whole measure for example, highlight the note, and slice by 7 or 10 or 13 or whatever, then move the notes up and down and shorten them if needed. I also do a trick where I take a sequence and can stretch it to some arbitrary length.