Digg Interview With Trent Reznor

  Joyrex said:

I find this odd coming from someone who lives in China, considering they tend to understand homeopathy and how the body works better than most Western medicine. Of course your body leeches out toxins via your skin, sweat, urine, etc. - how do you think your body cleanses itself when you're sick? You produce mucous, sweat, run a fever to try and kill whatever is ailing you, vomit, diarrhea, etc.

no. Living in China has only reinforced my belief that Chinese medicine is, by and large, a crock of shit (acupuncture is good at helping with certain conditions, but apart from that...)

And your body doesn't leech out toxins when you're sick. Sweating is your body's attempt to regulate fever, which is caused by your immune response to invasion. No toxins are involved. The toxins we do absorb - and there are certainly a of them(dioxin, pcbs, pthalates, etc) - get stored in our fat and liver for all eternity, mostly. Yes your body does gradually eliminate many things over time, but in most cases nothing is known to accelerate the "detoxifying" process.

As one example, regarding mercury poisoning from Wikipedia:

a growing number of physicians, particularly those in alternative medicine, use chelation to "rid" the body of mercury, which they believe to cause neurological and other disorders. A common practice is to challenge the patient's body with a chelation agent, collect urine samples, and then use laboratory reports to diagnose the patient with toxic levels of mercury; often no pre-chelation urine sample is collected for comparison. The patient is then advised to undergo further chelation. No controlled studies show that this procedure actually improves outcome. Inappropriate use of chelators may present untoward danger to the patient, or (in the case of pregnant patients) to a developing fetus.[28]

  lumpenprol said:

  Joyrex said:

I find this odd coming from someone who lives in China, considering they tend to understand homeopathy and how the body works better than most Western medicine. Of course your body leeches out toxins via your skin, sweat, urine, etc. - how do you think your body cleanses itself when you're sick? You produce mucous, sweat, run a fever to try and kill whatever is ailing you, vomit, diarrhea, etc.

 

no. Living in China has only reinforced my belief that Chinese medicine is, by and large, a crock of shit (acupuncture is good at helping with certain conditions, but apart from that...)

 

And your body doesn't leech out toxins when you're sick. Sweating is your body's attempt to regulate fever, which is caused by your immune response to invasion. No toxins are involved. The toxins we do absorb - and there are certainly a of them(dioxin, pcbs, pthalates, etc) - get stored in our fat and liver for all eternity, mostly. Yes your body does gradually eliminate many things over time, but in most cases nothing is known to accelerate the "detoxifying" process.

 

As one example, regarding mercury poisoning from Wikipedia:

 

a growing number of physicians, particularly those in alternative medicine, use chelation to "rid" the body of mercury, which they believe to cause neurological and other disorders. A common practice is to challenge the patient's body with a chelation agent, collect urine samples, and then use laboratory reports to diagnose the patient with toxic levels of mercury; often no pre-chelation urine sample is collected for comparison. The patient is then advised to undergo further chelation. No controlled studies show that this procedure actually improves outcome. Inappropriate use of chelators may present untoward danger to the patient, or (in the case of pregnant patients) to a developing fetus.[28]

For every negative "fact" you find disregarding homeopathic techniques and the like, you'll find just as many supporting it... I just speak from experience that some homeopathy DOES work, as traditional medicine has failed me too many times.

  Joyrex said:

For every negative "fact" you find disregarding homeopathic techniques and the like, you'll find just as many supporting it... I just speak from experience that some homeopathy DOES work, as traditional medicine has failed me too many times.

except that homeopathy was invented by a german dude, not the chinese. I'll agree that some so-called "alternative" medice does work - i used blue violet tea to treat my asthma when i was younger. I just don't believe that there's some treasure trove of unexplored knowledge somewhere; western medicine is so good at refining, slapping a label on, and marketing any substance that is remotely efficacious, that's it's pretty much assimilated all the knowledge that is out there. The thing that bugs me is that many people who are into "alternative therapies" seem to think pharmaceutical giants are trying to squelch their knowledge, when the profit motive dictates that just the opposite is true: if something works, bottle it and sell it!

Also living in China for almost three years, I have to say while there may be some hidden repository of ancient medical lore out in the country somewhere, the overall level of medical literacy is atrocious, and the biggest scam artists are clearly the traditional remedy peddlers. It's typical Asian stuff, I'm always amazed how they seem to have no cognitive dissonance between ancient superstitions and modern technology. One of my 3D leads believes she can lose weight by having something set on fire on her stomach. My gf, who is comfortable in a world of laptops and cell phones, believes eating fish eyes improves eyesight and eating brains improves intelligence, and thinks you can cure colds with antibiotics. In fact if you have a cold or flu here and go to the hospital, they will give you IV antibiotics and a chest x-ray, if not more. Why? Because people think if you go to the doctor and don't get something "done" to you, the doctor did a bad job. An American physician told me this flagrant overuse of antibiotics has let to a 40% increase in antibiotic-resistant strains of various bugs in the major urban areas. That's just the tip of the iceberg of the Chinese medical establishment...

/soapbox

  lumpenprol said:

  Joyrex said:

For every negative "fact" you find disregarding homeopathic techniques and the like, you'll find just as many supporting it... I just speak from experience that some homeopathy DOES work, as traditional medicine has failed me too many times.

 

except that homeopathy was invented by a german dude, not the chinese. I'll agree that some so-called "alternative" medice does work - i used blue violet tea to treat my asthma when i was younger. I just don't believe that there's some treasure trove of unexplored knowledge somewhere; western medicine is so good at refining, slapping a label on, and marketing any substance that is remotely efficacious, that's it's pretty much assimilated all the knowledge that is out there. The thing that bugs me is that many people who are into "alternative therapies" seem to think pharmaceutical giants are trying to squelch their knowledge, when the profit motive dictates that just the opposite is true: if something works, bottle it and sell it!

 

Also living in China for almost three years, I have to say while there may be some hidden repository of ancient medical lore out in the country somewhere, the overall level of medical literacy is atrocious, and the biggest scam artists are clearly the traditional remedy peddlers. It's typical Asian stuff, I'm always amazed how they seem to have no cognitive dissonance between ancient superstitions and modern technology. One of my 3D leads believes she can lose weight by having something set on fire on her stomach. My gf, who is comfortable in a world of laptops and cell phones, believes eating fish eyes improves eyesight and eating brains improves intelligence, and thinks you can cure colds with antibiotics. In fact if you have a cold or flu here and go to the hospital, they will give you IV antibiotics and a chest x-ray, if not more. Why? Because people think if you go to the doctor and don't get something "done" to you, the doctor did a bad job. An American physician told me this flagrant overuse of antibiotics has let to a 40% increase in antibiotic-resistant strains of various bugs in the major urban areas. That's just the tip of the iceberg of the Chinese medical establishment...

 

/soapbox

I never said that homeopathy was invented by the Chinese; I was more implying that the old methods of healing and wellness that ancient China employed were much more effective than today's "modern" medicine, where the goal seems to be to mask symptoms, rather than cure the causes of them. The scam artists who take advantage of the fact that most effective remedies have been around for centuries are just taking a good thing and manipulating it - the converse occurs as well, especially with China and the knockoff pills that come out of that country at an alarming rate, preying on people not able or willing to pay the inflated market value of modern medicine.

LOL, we got off on a tangent, didn't we? I wonder what Trent would have to say about the whole subject (after he got over being offended that we're making fun of him being old and roided out)

  Joyrex said:

I never said that homeopathy was invented by the Chinese; I was more implying that the old methods of healing and wellness that ancient China employed were much more effective than today's "modern" medicine, where the goal seems to be to mask symptoms, rather than cure the causes of them.

It's possible, but I also thing that many of those "old methods of healing and wellness" were the same old superstitions that have been prevalent the world over.

Tea is good for you.

I drink it.

Isn't most medicine derived from natural sources or synthesized with the intention of mimicking natural sources? Like marinol for instance. As long as its a pill and they can dole it out at a great profit its all good.

my grandma could probably fall on that rack of synths and make more interesting music.

edit: and I'm sure whine less too

things like homeopathy and other ancient medical traditions are basically just magical/ritualistic practices done that help induce he placebo effect in a human being. will power and the need to believe are very strong and can cause very real psychosomatic effects. To say they 'dont work' would be denying how powerful the placebo effect is. Doctors still perform the very unethical practice of placebo surgeries with amazing results.

I'm willing to keep an open mind about things like certain fish eyes might have a genuine chemical in them that is active on the human body in some way, but more often than not i feel like most of Chinese medicine are symbolic tools to tap into the placebo effect.

The only caveat is it isn't researched independently and objectionably enough. Lysine does help with herps and shingles. Aspirin is taken was a synthesis of willow tree bark. Vicks vapo is camphor oil. Peppermint has relaxing properties. Bengay uses menthol and camphor. Pain killers use opiates grown from the poppy plant. Its endless. Pharma companies send people out into the jungle to "find" new medicines. It goes on and on. I think the snooty attitude doctors have towards alternative medicine is their way of deflecting attention from where they farm their own knowledge so you have to buy from them only.

Penn & Teller had a good episode of "Bullshit" about this subject...

sorry i dont have enough toxins in my body to enjoy NIN

  Joyrex said:

For every negative "fact" you find disregarding homeopathic techniques and the like, you'll find just as many supporting it...

Show some supporting evidence from a peer-reviewed study published by a reputable scientific journal.

  Quote

I just speak from experience that some homeopathy DOES work, as traditional medicine has failed me too many times.

Anecdotal evidence from gullible people doesn't count.

wow, what a putz... and i'm gauging off of the still image i'm able to see of him and what i've read of everyone's analysis of what he said, seeing as internet video is at current a premium not afforded to me in my comcastically de-nutted paradise.

that said, why does anyone really care about trent reznor?!@ obviously this place shows great evidence of the big giant sucking NIN -> AFX pipeline that came circa hte late 90s / early 00s when people who got into the mystic genius of NIN eventually decided to "branch out" from their brazen leader and discover "whoa, there's people who make far better more interesting quintessentially more dynamic music without even 1% of the fundamental pretensiousness inherent to trent reznor's being.

i bet in his head he sees himself as some brazen leader of counterculture like if he heard a vsnares track he'd prolly smile and think that this quaint little electronic music wouldn't exist without his almighty influence somewhere way back in the day, if not present because the last few releases have been so fucking awesome so redefining my each and every semantic for "quality music" that i literally have to start looking at music totally anew after each re-release veritably zaps my p-ram with a new BIOS which i will use to understand the world that i live in.

trent's always been a melodramatic hack who as someone previously stated had really good timing and the right push from record labels to where his sound seemed completely out of leftfield and atypical and cosnequently fdesh and interesting to the mainstream peeps who had never heard anything like that before 1994, however, to anyone really into the styles of music that trent enroached on he's just kind of a joke, that nondescript bassist from the project pitchfork music video strumming along in the background... an overtly emo guy who made one of the world's greatest depeche mode tribute albums (pretty hate machine) and then became ostentatiously emo on top of his quasi-industrial/metal/machinerockey sound years before whining white longhaired pansies in skintight thriftstore jeans offsetting their newschool-neckerchiefs/scarfs/emiaciated bodies made it fashionable enough for the mainstream to go for pansies in eyeliner: THEY EMOTE. he hurt himself today?!@ ha. go fuck off you hoser, you had some moments i'll enjoy phm for what it is broken was kind of fun and after that you got popular and incessant and thought your shit didnt stank so bad that like, you ceased to matter, that is if you ever really did, and you're like the fucking bjork of dark brooding post-industrial/electronic/dare-i-say-IDM because you bring really mainstream vanilla people into the arts and like bjork they always have this love for their first love and pretend like they're some giant monolith of mattering in the world of the arts, but really, they're just something marginally cooler than the mainstream drede around when you started listening to them, and you'll always have that affinity, sure...

but basically really ask yourself does some schmuck who tries to sell you "NIN endorsed" photography and $50-100 uberrare bullshit versons of his LP, juxtaposed by the fact he'll give it to free if you want cuz he's such a fucking for-the-art artist that's what he'll do (someone else spoke of how he's an expert at fleecing his hardcores, akin to george lucas, ding ding ding)... i mean, did this guy ever really matter to the point where it's like earthshaking news papa trent has some thoughts for the masses?!2

fuck this guy up his stupid fat steroid ridden hamburgered post-emo ass, he's irrelevent.

  my usernames always really suck said:

  Joyrex said:

For every negative "fact" you find disregarding homeopathic techniques and the like, you'll find just as many supporting it...

 

Show some supporting evidence from a peer-reviewed study published by a reputable scientific journal.

 

  Quote

I just speak from experience that some homeopathy DOES work, as traditional medicine has failed me too many times.

 

Anecdotal evidence from gullible people doesn't count.

That's just it - those "reputable scientific journals" are typically in the pockets of the pharma and medical industries, who want nothing more than to keep affordable, non-invasive, remedies out of the limelight. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find some, but they are certainly in the minority.

The fact that I chose a homeopathic route for an ailment that now, thanks to homeopathy, longer affects me, attesting to it's effectiveness, makes me gullible in what way, exactly?

  sinicalypse said:

wow, what a putz... and i'm gauging off of the still image i'm able to see of him and what i've read of everyone's analysis of what he said, seeing as internet video is at current a premium not afforded to me in my comcastically de-nutted paradise.

 

that said, why does anyone really care about trent reznor?!@ obviously this place shows great evidence of the big giant sucking NIN -> AFX pipeline that came circa hte late 90s / early 00s when people who got into the mystic genius of NIN eventually decided to "branch out" from their brazen leader and discover "whoa, there's people who make far better more interesting quintessentially more dynamic music without even 1% of the fundamental pretensiousness inherent to trent reznor's being.

 

i bet in his head he sees himself as some brazen leader of counterculture like if he heard a vsnares track he'd prolly smile and think that this quaint little electronic music wouldn't exist without his almighty influence somewhere way back in the day, if not present because the last few releases have been so fucking awesome so redefining my each and every semantic for "quality music" that i literally have to start looking at music totally anew after each re-release veritably zaps my p-ram with a new BIOS which i will use to understand the world that i live in.

 

trent's always been a melodramatic hack who as someone previously stated had really good timing and the right push from record labels to where his sound seemed completely out of leftfield and atypical and cosnequently fdesh and interesting to the mainstream peeps who had never heard anything like that before 1994, however, to anyone really into the styles of music that trent enroached on he's just kind of a joke, that nondescript bassist from the project pitchfork music video strumming along in the background... an overtly emo guy who made one of the world's greatest depeche mode tribute albums (pretty hate machine) and then became ostentatiously emo on top of his quasi-industrial/metal/machinerockey sound years before whining white longhaired pansies in skintight thriftstore jeans offsetting their newschool-neckerchiefs/scarfs/emiaciated bodies made it fashionable enough for the mainstream to go for pansies in eyeliner: THEY EMOTE. he hurt himself today?!@ ha. go fuck off you hoser, you had some moments i'll enjoy phm for what it is broken was kind of fun and after that you got popular and incessant and thought your shit didnt stank so bad that like, you ceased to matter, that is if you ever really did, and you're like the fucking bjork of dark brooding post-industrial/electronic/dare-i-say-IDM because you bring really mainstream vanilla people into the arts and like bjork they always have this love for their first love and pretend like they're some giant monolith of mattering in the world of the arts, but really, they're just something marginally cooler than the mainstream drede around when you started listening to them, and you'll always have that affinity, sure...

 

but basically really ask yourself does some schmuck who tries to sell you "NIN endorsed" photography and $50-100 uberrare bullshit versons of his LP, juxtaposed by the fact he'll give it to free if you want cuz he's such a fucking for-the-art artist that's what he'll do (someone else spoke of how he's an expert at fleecing his hardcores, akin to george lucas, ding ding ding)... i mean, did this guy ever really matter to the point where it's like earthshaking news papa trent has some thoughts for the masses?!2

 

fuck this guy up his stupid fat steroid ridden hamburgered post-emo ass, he's irrelevent.

Wow, never before have I ever seen such a succinct example of "wrong". Thanks!

what's so great about his collective works?!@

this must be art that i clearly don't understand =D

  Joyrex said:

  sinicalypse said:

wow, what a putz... and i'm gauging off of the still image i'm able to see of him and what i've read of everyone's analysis of what he said, seeing as internet video is at current a premium not afforded to me in my comcastically de-nutted paradise.

 

that said, why does anyone really care about trent reznor?!@ obviously this place shows great evidence of the big giant sucking NIN -> AFX pipeline that came circa hte late 90s / early 00s when people who got into the mystic genius of NIN eventually decided to "branch out" from their brazen leader and discover "whoa, there's people who make far better more interesting quintessentially more dynamic music without even 1% of the fundamental pretensiousness inherent to trent reznor's being.

 

i bet in his head he sees himself as some brazen leader of counterculture like if he heard a vsnares track he'd prolly smile and think that this quaint little electronic music wouldn't exist without his almighty influence somewhere way back in the day, if not present because the last few releases have been so fucking awesome so redefining my each and every semantic for "quality music" that i literally have to start looking at music totally anew after each re-release veritably zaps my p-ram with a new BIOS which i will use to understand the world that i live in.

 

trent's always been a melodramatic hack who as someone previously stated had really good timing and the right push from record labels to where his sound seemed completely out of leftfield and atypical and cosnequently fdesh and interesting to the mainstream peeps who had never heard anything like that before 1994, however, to anyone really into the styles of music that trent enroached on he's just kind of a joke, that nondescript bassist from the project pitchfork music video strumming along in the background... an overtly emo guy who made one of the world's greatest depeche mode tribute albums (pretty hate machine) and then became ostentatiously emo on top of his quasi-industrial/metal/machinerockey sound years before whining white longhaired pansies in skintight thriftstore jeans offsetting their newschool-neckerchiefs/scarfs/emiaciated bodies made it fashionable enough for the mainstream to go for pansies in eyeliner: THEY EMOTE. he hurt himself today?!@ ha. go fuck off you hoser, you had some moments i'll enjoy phm for what it is broken was kind of fun and after that you got popular and incessant and thought your shit didnt stank so bad that like, you ceased to matter, that is if you ever really did, and you're like the fucking bjork of dark brooding post-industrial/electronic/dare-i-say-IDM because you bring really mainstream vanilla people into the arts and like bjork they always have this love for their first love and pretend like they're some giant monolith of mattering in the world of the arts, but really, they're just something marginally cooler than the mainstream drede around when you started listening to them, and you'll always have that affinity, sure...

 

but basically really ask yourself does some schmuck who tries to sell you "NIN endorsed" photography and $50-100 uberrare bullshit versons of his LP, juxtaposed by the fact he'll give it to free if you want cuz he's such a fucking for-the-art artist that's what he'll do (someone else spoke of how he's an expert at fleecing his hardcores, akin to george lucas, ding ding ding)... i mean, did this guy ever really matter to the point where it's like earthshaking news papa trent has some thoughts for the masses?!2

 

fuck this guy up his stupid fat steroid ridden hamburgered post-emo ass, he's irrelevent.

 

Wow, never before have I ever seen such a succinct example of "wrong". Thanks!

I heard you say that in the Depeche Mode voice.

what?!? scientific journals are in the hands of big pharma? lolololoolol

  sinicalypse said:

what's so great about his collective works?!@

 

this must be art that i clearly don't understand =D

I think most here would agree that The Downward Spiral, rather ironically named as it describes his output after said album, represents his pinnacle. Think what you will about whatever concept of "who" he is since you don't actually know him beyond his celebrity status, but the fact remains the man is a savvy businessman and I personally think he takes his music making seriously, and does care for his fanbase.

Whether we think it's any good or not is opinion; but the fact remains, if you support him by buying his release, you're giving him a reason to continue making music and validating his output to some degree.

I see nothing wrong with him offering his latest release for free as well as selling a premium edition for those who want such things - he obviously cannot give away premium items like deluxe box sets for free and still maintain an income so he can create more music. Do you own or want an Analord binder? Of course, you can get the regular 12" and still get the music without the binder, so he's not gouging the fans either, right?

  Joyrex said:

That's just it - those "reputable scientific journals" are typically in the pockets of the pharma and medical industries, who want nothing more than to keep affordable, non-invasive, remedies out of the limelight.

I forgot to say that conspiracy theory rhetoric doesn't count either.

  Quote

The fact that I chose a homeopathic route for an ailment that now, thanks to homeopathy, longer affects me, attesting to it's effectiveness, makes me gullible in what way, exactly?

You're a grown man, you should know better than to confuse correlation with causation. What ailment was this, anyway?

And get this -- even if you were using a legitimate, well-studied and researched medicine, I wouldn't accept this testimony. Anecdotal evidence works in the court room, but not in science.

  my usernames always really suck said:

  Joyrex said:

That's just it - those "reputable scientific journals" are typically in the pockets of the pharma and medical industries, who want nothing more than to keep affordable, non-invasive, remedies out of the limelight.

 

I forgot to say that conspiracy theory rhetoric doesn't count either.

 

  Quote

The fact that I chose a homeopathic route for an ailment that now, thanks to homeopathy, longer affects me, attesting to it's effectiveness, makes me gullible in what way, exactly?

 

You're a grown man, you should know better than to confuse correlation with causation. What ailment was this, anyway?

 

And get this -- even if you were using a legitimate, well-studied and researched medicine, I wouldn't accept this testimony. Anecdotal evidence works in the court room, but not in science.

Well, who are you to judge anything? Worked for me, might not work for you. I don't even think homeopathy has a cure for assholism yet.

  Joyrex said:

I see nothing wrong with him offering his latest release for free as well as selling a premium edition for those who want such things

i agree with your general point but i wanted to clarify that only the 1st disc of Ghosts was free online, the rest of them you were required to pay for