The Cat Torturer

I'm probably not making much sense, or being very understanding as its 3am and I've been up a long time, sorry if this is the case.

  OneToThirtySix said:

Bread; finding out what's wrong with him doesn't change the fact that there is something wrong with him. Poorly-written biased reporting aside, the damage is done, and the only thing left for him is years and years of psychiatric therapy.

I understand, but if you can find out the root cause(s) of his behaviour which has given rise to these disgusting acts of animal cruelty, then surely that knowledge can be further progressed and applied to society as a whole. Once a cause has been discovered, educate others about that cause which could prevent others from following in the same or similar footsteps as this man who has been charged.

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Once a cause has been discovered, educate others about that cause which could prevent others from following in the same or similar footsteps as this man who has been charged

I'm sure governments have thought the same thing for a long time. But it doesn't work. Otherwise we would have eridaicated the problem long ago. I agree with the articles presumptions. The acts he carried out were so disgusting, i have to say, the cat torturer is a fat, evil beast. And there are many more like him. He has no doubt been a victim of abuse himself, but that is no excuse. The pathetic creature should be thrown in jail for a long time.

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knowledge can be further progressed and applied to society as a whole

The cat torturers crimes are inexcuseable. Get him off the streets and into a padded cell. He will not be able to mix with other prisoners, they will not like him. Study him in jail, if you can get behind his crimes and put it towards a greater good, then do it. But people have been doing that since Michael Myers in the '70's and there is no cure for these fuckwads. They're just born that way.

  Dr Clitterhaus said:

They're just born that way.

So what you're saying is that his brain had a preconcieved notion of life? The brain itself develops in the environment you are nurtured in. There is no such thing as a gene that shows you will be a cat torturer. It's like you see these genetic studies trying to find the smoker gene or the Republican or Democrat gene.. keep trying but it's non-existent.

The brain is hardwired for survival, everything else is auxilary to the human being. Once people understand that they are merely a subject of their own social and environmental conditioning, humanity will change for the better. Calling this man a beast is not getting you or him anywhere.. evil is also a loaded term. You're going backwards instead of looking into the case further with an inquisitive mind to help the guy. If everyone resorted to this behavioural approach to his crimes, how would we be advancing as a society?

Human nature is projected as a sort of "tough luck" scenario.. as if you are just born a certain way and there's no way of you changing. I once heard a Christian man in his late 50's say on television that he believes he was born with greed, and his religion supresses his greedy ways. How distorted can this be? You're not born greedy, you pick that up in the environment.

Nobody raises an eyebrow when cats torture a mouse or bird.

  Bread said:

So what you're saying is that his brain had a preconcieved notion of life? The brain itself develops in the environment you are nurtured in. There is no such thing as a gene that shows you will be a cat torturer. It's like you see these genetic studies trying to find the smoker gene or the Republican or Democrat gene.. keep trying but it's non-existent.

 

The brain is hardwired for survival, everything else is auxilary to the human being. Once people understand that they are merely a subject of their own social and environmental conditioning, humanity will change for the better. Calling this man a beast is not getting you or him anywhere.. evil is also a loaded term. You're going backwards instead of looking into the case further with an inquisitive mind to help the guy. If everyone resorted to this behavioural approach to his crimes, how would we be advancing as a society?

 

Human nature is projected as a sort of "tough luck" scenario.. as if you are just born a certain way and there's no way of you changing. I once heard a Christian man in his late 50's say on television that he believes he was born with greed, and his religion supresses his greedy ways. How distorted can this be? You're not born greedy, you pick that up in the environment.

So then, Bread, where do you think he picked up his fetish for listening to bleeding animals crying out in pain as they die?  I'm interested in examining this "environment" you are excusing his behavior onto.

  my usernames always really suck said:

Nobody raises an eyebrow when cats torture a mouse or bird.

Cats don't use tape and/or sharp/blunt instruments.  In that case, it's hunting; animal vs. animal.  I'd like to see this guy go up against a cat without any of the means he had before.

  OneToThirtySix said:

So then, Bread, where do you think he picked up his fetish for listening to bleeding animals crying out in pain as they die? I'm interested in examining this "environment" you are excusing his behavior onto.

I don't know, that is my honest answer because I do not know the man, nor do I know about anything concerning his upbringing. There are so many variables and connections involved - it could prove to be difficult for him to pin point exactly when he began getting something emotionally from inflicting cruelty to animals. I'm not even going to hazard a guess because I'd be wrongly judging his past.

What I do know though from my own experience of life and reserach into this field is that logically, the brain does not inherit "evil" characteristics as some may describe - I think that this is picked up solely within the environment. Does it make sense to you that there is a cat torturer gene, or a gene that is invevitably going to affect a human to an extent where they intentionally be cruel to animals because they were destined to do it? How could this logically make sense from a neuro-scientific stand point and understanding on things? Can science prove this? Psychology can prove that conditioning plays an important role in all our lives. Please add further to what you would like to explain. Are you saying something like evil is inborn? Do you think if Hitler was born and had been moved to live on a South Pacific Island within a tribe of people he'd still be hell bent on power when that tribe promotes sharing resources and living as a community? The environment is the element of change within a human.

If someone finds the so-called "evil gene" or "animal cruelty" gene, let me know please so we can get it taken out of the DNA coding yeah? Thanks.

there's over-eater genes

  Bread said:

I don't know, that is my honest answer because I do not know the man, nor do I know about anything concerning his upbringing. There are so many variables and connections involved - it could prove to be difficult for him to pin point exactly when he began getting something emotionally from inflicting cruelty to animals. I'm not even going to hazard a guess because I'd be wrongly judging his past.

 

What I do know though from my own experience of life and reserach into this field is that logically, the brain does not inherit "evil" characteristics as some may describe - I think that this is picked up solely within the environment. Does it make sense to you that there is a cat torturer gene, or a gene that is invevitably going to affect a human to an extent where they intentionally be cruel to animals because they were destined to do it? How could this logically make sense from a neuro-scientific stand point and understanding on things? Can science prove this? Psychology can prove that conditioning plays an important role in all our lives. Please add further to what you would like to explain. Are you saying something like evil is inborn?

I don't recall ever saying he was evil, just that there is something wrong with him.  I do agree that an environment has influence over a person's decisions, but those decisions are still the choice of the individual, regardless of upbringing.  And something like mental illness is genetic, unless I completely misunderstand the concept of genetics.

What I mean is I think you are wrong in placing complete blame on his environment, when there isn't an environment in existence that conditions a mind to learn these actions are socially acceptable.  If he had been taught to do these things, he wouldn't know they were wrong, in which case, why bother trying to hide what he was doing?

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I don't recall ever saying he was evil, just that there is something wrong with him. I do agree that an environment has influence over a person's decisions, but those decisions are still the choice of the individual, regardless of upbringing. And something like mental illness is genetic, unless I completely misunderstand the concept of genetics.

Yes the decision is still the choice of the individual, and the choice is influenced by the environment, nothing more and nothing less than that could be considered on a psychological basis. Mental illnesses being genetic? Quite possibly, but who can determine this? A sudden onset of depression, a nervous disorder within someone's life could have given rise by perhaps a loved one dying who was close to them.. does this mean it is a genetic cause or an environmental cause? Not all mental illnesses can lead back to genetics, so you are making a very broad statement when saying mental illness is genetic.

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What I mean is I think you are wrong in placing complete blame on his environment, when there isn't an environment in existence that conditions a mind to learn these actions are socially acceptable. If he had been taught to do these things, he wouldn't know they were wrong, in which case, why bother trying to hide what he was doing?

It's not impossible to have a certain set of scenarios which lead up to this man being cruel to cats and other animals. Genetics do not make way for certain actions that happen within an environment. People do things that are not socially acceptable all the time.. Members of Parliament in the UK have become greedy by claiming more expenses than they should.. and what was the onset of this greed? The monetary system itself which promotes self preservation, greed and abhorrent behaviour so this is a classic example of someone doing something greedy, knowing full well that it is not socially acceptable to use taxpayers money wrongly but they do so under materialistic gain for themselves. So even though this man may have known that it is not socially acceptable to inflict pain and suffering to animals, he has carried on with it for some form of gain for himself.

You admitted the environment plays a role in shaping someone's behaviour, but you still uphold genetics being the cause to mental illnesses.

  Bread said:

Yes the decision is still the choice of the individual, and the choice is influenced by the environment, nothing more and nothing less than that could be considered on a psychological basis. Mental illnesses being genetic? Quite possibly, but who can determine this? A sudden onset of depression, a nervous disorder within someone's life could have given rise by perhaps a loved one dying who was close to them.. does this mean it is a genetic cause or an environmental cause? Not all mental illnesses can lead back to genetics, so you are making a very broad statement when saying mental illness is genetic.

 

It's not impossible to have a certain set of scenarios which lead up to this man being cruel to cats and other animals. Genetics do not make way for certain actions that happen within an environment. People do things that are not socially acceptable all the time.. Members of Parliament in the UK have become greedy by claiming more expenses than they should.. and what was the onset of this greed? The monetary system itself which promotes self preservation, greed and abhorrent behaviour so this is a classic example of someone doing something greedy, knowing full well that it is not socially acceptable to use taxpayers money wrongly but they do so under materialistic gain for themselves. So even though this man may have known that it is not socially acceptable to inflict pain and suffering to animals, he has carried on with it for some form of gain for himself.

 

You admitted the environment plays a role in shaping someone's behaviour, but you still uphold genetics being the cause to mental illnesses.

If I didn't know better, I would say you were defending him.

I would rather say he suffers a mental disorder (regardless of origin) than say "It's not his fault his daddy never hugged him and that his mother didn't feed him enough vitamin B.  Let's give him a hug and send him home with a lolly and a balloon and he'll be fine.  Rainbows and puppies and Disney and fingerpainting and warm fuzzies and other intangible good feelings."  You've removed him from all responsibility for the sake of 'discovering the source'.  And any gratification he acheived from these tortures is not healthy.

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Cats don't use tape and/or sharp/blunt instruments. In that case, it's hunting; animal vs. animal.

I'm not talking about a cat eating a mouse for food. They will sometimes torture a mouse, teasing it and making it think it's being set free, before pinning it down again and abusing it more. This can go on for hours before the cat gets bored and just leaves it a fatal bleeding gash to die a slow painful death instead of instantly putting the mouse out of its misery.

serious mothafuckin debatin going down in this thread

  my usernames always really suck said:

I'm not talking about a cat eating a mouse for food. They will sometimes torture a mouse, teasing it and making it think it's being set free, before pinning it down again and abusing it more. This can go on for hours before the cat gets bored and just leaves it a fatal bleeding gash to die a slow painful death instead of instantly putting the mouse out of its misery.

That's practice for hunting.  And Docherty isn't a cat, he has higher reasoning (I hope).

Look it's clearly a combination between both environment and genetics. That's obvious, but i do think people way underestimate the effect of the environment.

Tauboo gives a good example: the over eater gene. Here is something very obvious and easy to use for an example. I don't know the figures, but if you compare the amount of overweight people from the U.K in the 1950's to the amount of overweight people now then it becomes blatantly obvious just what a MASSIVE impact the culture/environment has on people. Same genes, different environment.The same potentials are there in the people of the 1950's but the results are completely different.

In my opinion, raise Charles Manson with a group of Buddhist monks in China from birth and he doesn't become a murderer, i can't put it any simpler than that.

  Rambo said:

Look it's clearly a combination between both environment and genetics. That's obvious, but i do think people way underestimate the effect of the environment.

 

Tauboo gives a good example: the over eater gene. Here is something very obvious and easy to use for an example. I don't know the figures, but if you compare the amount of overweight people from the U.K in the 1950's to the amount of overweight people now then it becomes blatantly obvious just what a MASSIVE impact the culture/environment has on people. Same genes, different environment.The same potentials are there in the people of the 1950's but the results are completely different.

 

In my opinion, raise Charles Manson with a group of Buddhist monks in China from birth and he doesn't become a murderer, i can't put it any simpler than that.

Put Sylvester Stallone through speech therapy and his characters become less memorable.

obviously there are numerous factors governing human behavior including plasticity of predisposition, to complicate matters.

I still say Fatty "Evil Beast" McCat-Fucker owes a debt to society.

edit:Hey Dr. Clitterhaus, what do you know about arson?

  OneToThirtySix said:

If I didn't know better, I would say you were defending him.

 

 

I would rather say he suffers a mental disorder (regardless of origin) than say "It's not his fault his daddy never hugged him and that his mother didn't feed him enough vitamin B. Let's give him a hug and send him home with a lolly and a balloon and he'll be fine. Rainbows and puppies and Disney and fingerpainting and warm fuzzies and other intangible good feelings." You've removed him from all responsibility for the sake of 'discovering the source'. And any gratification he acheived from these tortures is not healthy.

I do not defend his actions but I would rather see society moving forward in advancements in neuroscience and by applying the scientific method for human concern rather than locking up a criminal for life which to me seems completely backwards and primitive - why avoid the root causes?

You'd rather say he suffers from a mental disorder - but that mental or nervous disorder is caused by the environment. I find it difficult to comprehend being born with depression or anxiety.

KILL HIM!

  Bread said:

I do not defend his actions but I would rather see society moving forward in advancements in neuroscience and by applying the scientific method for human concern rather than locking up a criminal for life which to me seems completely backwards and primitive - why avoid the root causes?

Because he's obviously fucking nuts.  Who gives a warm shit where it stems from?

  thanksomuch said:

KILL HIM!

I think that might a bit lenient.  I say play cat sounds all night outside his bedroom.

  OneToThirtySix said:

  Bread said:

I do not defend his actions but I would rather see society moving forward in advancements in neuroscience and by applying the scientific method for human concern rather than locking up a criminal for life which to me seems completely backwards and primitive - why avoid the root causes?

Because he's obviously fucking nuts. Who gives a warm shit where it stems from?

If we can find out a root cause, we can educate others to not go down the route this man went down somewhere in his life. It can possibly be prevented. I'd rather something like that comes out of all of this rather than dismissing this man as "fucking nuts" and locking him up.

  Bread said:

If we can find out a root cause, we can educate others to not go down the route this man went down somewhere in his life. It can possibly be prevented. I'd rather something like that comes out of all of this rather than dismissing this man as "fucking nuts" and locking him up.

Here:

"Don't torture cats, children."

Problem solved.

It's still okay to kill cats for the purpose of cooking and eating them, right?

  my usernames always really suck said:

It's still okay to kill cats for the purpose of cooking and eating them, right?

dogs too