On the subject of the Salvinorin Continuum

Awepittance, you must know what I mean when I talk about that rhythmic, gridlike movement that permeates throughout the experience? The visual aspect that goes along with this movement is one unparalleled in all visionary experiences. Its like all visual input is completely scrambled and reassembled (with all features simplified into the most basic geometric forms), repeating infinitely along this gridflow. The whole thing is extremely spiky!

you realize this is all going to end up with you starving to death inside an abandoned bus, don't you?

  On 7/6/2009 at 10:58 AM, Salvatorin said:

Awepittance, you must know what I mean when I talk about that rhythmic, gridlike movement that permeates throughout the experience? The visual aspect that goes along with this movement is one unparalleled in all visionary experiences. Its like all visual input is completely scrambled and reassembled (with all features simplified into the most basic geometric forms), repeating infinitely along this gridflow. The whole thing is extremely spiky!

how about the right side of your body??

you just need to start creating some kick ass techno to back all of this up and you'll be another drexciya.

/continues read from second para

  On 7/6/2009 at 10:41 AM, Salvatorin said:

Well actually you can make a liquid solution, and ingest it in the style of a quid, holding it in your mouth (and of course, the effects are massively drawn out in comparison to smoked).

yes you can but i will guarantee you that you cannot find an american company willing to sell someone pure Salvinorin A, it's still very hush hush. thats the point i was trying to make, and it's because they know it would be far too dangerous and misused if pure powder was sold all over the place.

  On 7/6/2009 at 3:17 AM, kaini said:

i get the impression this is done in order to give the end-user something tangible to work with and for sheer convenience; compare say $50 of salv in this preparation vs a pure extract. one is a bag of leaf, the other would be a miniscule amount of crystal that would be difficult to use. of course it also makes testing the strength of a preparation a bit tougher.

yeah but there are many crazy psychonauts out there who would snatch up Pure salvinorin A in a heart beat if it were availible on the open market.

  On 7/6/2009 at 10:58 AM, Salvatorin said:

Awepittance, you must know what I mean when I talk about that rhythmic, gridlike movement that permeates throughout the experience? The visual aspect that goes along with this movement is one unparalleled in all visionary experiences. Its like all visual input is completely scrambled and reassembled (with all features simplified into the most basic geometric forms), repeating infinitely along this gridflow. The whole thing is extremely spiky!

i definitely have a rhythmic sensation on salvia, something like a 1hz sawtooth wave tearing apart my body. Have you tried ingesting Salvia while on other psychedelics like LSD? if not i highly recommend it

  On 7/6/2009 at 10:45 PM, Awepittance said:

yeah but there are many crazy psychonauts out there who would snatch up Pure salvinorin A in a heart beat if it were availible on the open market.

the last time i tried so-called 40x, i was simultaneously convinced that i was a being-state that was pretty much a huge, infinitely intricate fractal turkish carpet and that i could see little beings running around tiny intricate corridors just under the surface of my LCD screen (i think the link between the two images is pretty obvious too, and interesting)

i'll pass on the large amounts of pure salvinorin a thanks

It was extremely strange this last time that my friend actually experienced the same thing as me, although he said he didn't trust the "shape-people" and "blockland" was a really bad place. I, on the other hand, loved it there.

Salvi you are on a good track... You call it the grid, I've been calling it the lattice.. I think we're talking about the same thing. There's a bit of 'chicken or the egg' about it for me... is this geometric structure the underlying layer of the universe, or is it just the way our visual cortex works?

http://www.archive.org/details/redwood_center_2006_02_14_cowan

This lecture by Jack Cowan, though heavy in math way above my head, is supremely interesting...

These form constants, these 4 or so basic geometric patterns, my personal theory is that, like how simple sine waves added together create every sound imaginable, these 4 basic patterns overlayed on one another create what we see in everyday life. the computer in front of me, a certain combination of these form constants combined produces the image of a laptop...

Also look up merkaba and connect the

'4 heads' to this, earth wind fire water... solid gas plasma liquid.. connectt it to that and you'll start to go as mad as i have. if time doesn't exist space doesn't either. i feel like i've seen the lattice overlayed on everything, on shroom, and well.. moving is not really moving, it's shifting the scenery.. we're all one thing and all that. sorry this is so incoherent, i can put it together much better in person. please keep me posted on your future research and insight

Ah yes, form constants! I was experimenting with integrated geometric systems (fractal spirals and such), and found that the normal form constants could be created incredibly easily, as long as there are 4 dimensions present. Any random input creates one of the form constants above, depending on the data of each dimension.

Sorry for all the replies, editing doesn't seem to be possible.

http://scienceblogs.com/sunclipse/2008/11/physics_makes_a_toy_of_the_bra.php

  Quote

If Jack Cowan and his colleagues are correct, ideas from statistical physics can tell us important facts about our own brains. By studying the recurring motifs of hallucinations, we can construct a geometry of the mind.

 

"Honeycomb" form constant generated by marijuana

"Honeycomb" form constant,

from Bresloff, Cowan et al. (2002)It's hard to imagine any sort of regularity in a phenomenon as eccentric as visual hallucinations. Our culture is brimming with psychedelia, music and art produced "under the influence" of one or another infamous chemical. Yet the very fact that we can label artwork as "psychedelic" suggests that the effects of those mind-bending substances have a certain predictability. In the 1920s, long before the days of review boards and modern regulations for human experimentation, the neurologist Heinrich Klüwer ingested mescaline and recorded his observations. He reported visual hallucinations of four distinct types, which he called "form constants." These form constants included tunnels and funnels, spirals, honeycomb-like lattices and cobweb patterns. Similar structures have been reported with other drugs, like LSD; these same form constants also appear during migraines, in "hypnogogic" (falling asleep) and "hypnopompic" (waking up) states, when pressure is applied to closed eyes, and even in ancient cave paintings.

 

If the same hallucinatory images appear from many causes, might they be indicative of some more general property of brain structure?

 

In the late 1970s, Cowan began to suspect that the culprit was not mescaline or LSD itself, but rather the visual cortex at the back of the brain, and in particular the section known as the primary visual cortex, V1. (In technical terms, this means focusing on topological rather than hodological hallucinations, studying those which might arise from a specific part of the brain rather than from malfunctions in the connections among multiple regions.) From magnetic-resonance imaging studies, we know that V1 becomes active when a subject is asked to examine closely an image presented to the eyes. Neuroscientists have discovered a great deal about V1; we know, for example, that its cells are organized into columns, perpendicular to the cortical surface, which are about a millimeter wide (the exact size varies among different mammal species). However, Cowan realized, to a decent first approximation, the visual cortex could be treated mathematically as a uniform surface, essentially a flat plane.

The idea of integrated systems and nature as a formula has come to be very tied in with the grid/lattice, which is what has made me really emphasize the aspect of being in the wilderness, because, when you are away from anything created with the touch of human hand, all that is at work is the forest...fundamentally an integrated system based on a set of variables that forms a chain tied all the way back to the beginning of planck time. The experience tends to break down all the plants and landforms around you into its universal geometric components (which reflects the interconnectedness of all systems, and thus their strange affinity for fractal similarity), and lay them out onto the grid/lattice, ecstatically digitizing your ego into multiversal binary.

yerp

  On 7/7/2009 at 3:59 AM, Polymershapes said:

Sorry for all the replies, editing doesn't seem to be possible.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/sunclipse/2008/11/physics_makes_a_toy_of_the_bra.php

haha, yes, this is a perfect example of science journals finally taking a tiny, cautious step towards logic that our species has had for nearly all of our evolution (but I mean, you can only expect pussyfooting at this stage). What they are not going to say is how this same geometry can show the true fractalline face of the universe, nature, evolution, human history, religion, sociology, and practically everything!!!!

if i may say so i think talking about a salvia trip in such concrete terms is a little unnecessary. to say that the trip takes you to some sort of 'grid' or 'lattice' is not necessarily the case for everybody. i have only had a handful of trips where i would describe it in the terms you are using, the majority of my salvia trips are literally too fucked up to put into words. words in general trying to describe ego loss psychedelic trips are pittance in the face of what actually happened to you.

  On 7/7/2009 at 5:02 AM, Awepittance said:

i have only had a handful of trips where i would describe it in the terms you are using, the majority of my salvia trips are literally too fucked up to put into words.

this

  On 7/7/2009 at 3:30 AM, Polymershapes said:

if this is all i saw on psychedelic drugs i would have only done them one time and never again, thank god my hallucinations are not all spirals!

I'm sorry you can't appreciate what we're talking about, but it's bigger than drugs

i can appreciate a lot of what Salvitorin is saying to a point, but i am a little put off by the weird mentality of overly projecting your own imagination /interpertation about the universe onto a salvia trip as if it is the absolute reality of what is happening. FOr me the beauty of drugs like Salvia is that they only REINFORCE the idea that we as humans really have no fucking clue at all what is going on in the universe. So to act as if you do after taking salvia without at the same time being humble and saying 'well of course this is only my interpretation from being heavily altered on psychedelic drugs' i think runs VERY COUNTER to what salvia is all about, it's about loosing grip with the concrete nature of anything, and here you guys are speaking in very very concrete terms about how the salvia 'lattice' is setup and what not.

I find this to be a big turn off in psychedelics culture, its a very fun subject to talk about until some wishy washy drug user comes out of the wood work and says 'MAN you haven't experienced the TRUE SALVIA if you haven't FELT THE feminine energy of the GREEN GODDESS" i mean im not saying that is what you guys are doing but it is starting to veer in that direction.

you're projecting, i'm obviously just expounding my own small crazy personal theory and connecting it with some stuff i read about the visual cortex.. i've never even taken salvia. anything i say you can put a pretend "this is just my opinion" tag around if it makes you more comfortable, unless i'm quoting someone else.

Well I experienced the ego loss to begin with, and although it was mind shattering, I sought to find more control in what was happening by forcing my ego to maintain, keep a sense of self, so I could empirically observe what was going on without the associated confusion, and (of course it is only a rough attempt) to articulate the bare minimum of what is happening. I think this is the key for me, as I am not willing to settle for tucking these experiences away in the back of my mind later, out of complete and total disbelief. The whole new age druggy hippy "entheogen user" whatever scene, even if they try and back it up with McKenna quotes, eventually boils down a type of "Just roll with it, man" attitude, which is obviously regression.

  On 7/7/2009 at 5:43 AM, Awepittance said:

i can appreciate a lot of what Salvitorin is saying to a point, but i am a little put off by the weird mentality of overly projecting your own imagination /interpertation about the universe onto a salvia trip as if it is the absolute reality of what is happening. FOr me the beauty of drugs like Salvia is that they only REINFORCE the idea that we as humans really have no fucking clue at all what is going on in the universe. So to act as if you do after taking salvia without at the same time being humble and saying 'well of course this is only my interpretation from being heavily altered on psychedelic drugs' i think runs VERY COUNTER to what salvia is all about, it's about loosing grip with the concrete nature of anything, and here you guys are speaking in very very concrete terms about how the salvia 'lattice' is setup and what not.

I completely understand the necessity of keeping humility when it comes to these things, but does reverent silence shed light on what is misunderstood? I just feel that if there can be superfluous connections drawn from applying scientific knowledge to these experiences, it is something that may add a new take on the great mystery that is our situation.

Sorry, I'm gettin a bit ahead of myself. No disrespect.

salvatorin. i agree with pretty much everything you said. but i think that people like us should keep in our circle, if you know what i mean. people will join the circle on their own, we should focus on the advancement of our own understandings, and maybe discuss it with others from time to time. i find that most everybody, even drug users, find this talk irritating.

they find it irritating because they associate it with hippies, druggies, and therefor stupidity or lameness.

i like to call myself a "hippie in disguise."

i agree, 100% about the fractal nature of the universe thing. i wonder what more info there is on this theory, or if there are a group of people who apply that theory to their lives in some way (i don't know how). i discovered this one night, not even on any hard drug, but after smoking several bowls of marijuana. i flew into infinity, so to speak, and experienced what i can only imagine to be "nirvana." my friend who practices meditation, and many people would disagree. i don't know what nirvana is, and neither do they. does anybody? i don't think it's a good idea for me to call it "nirvana" anyway. stupid.

anyhow, i think salvia is a gateway to a new understanding. unquestionably. to the point where there's no question. if you smoke it, it will show you. unfortunately you have to be predisposed to what it has to offer. a lot of my friends come out of it saying that it was funny as hell, or crazy, but without much else to say. i generally feel the same about other hallucinogens, in that they can teach you things, or act as a catalyst to teaching.

i have yet to smoke DMT, but if it ever comes my way, I definitely will. that said, i'm done with all other drugs for a long, long time. i want to experience life with a clearer mind for a bit, try to assimilate myself into society and see if all my non-conforming ways are based in paranoia and foolishness, but i really doubt they are.

some art that depicts the more easily describable moments that would take place near the end of my salvia journeys (if you combine all of them):

i would enjoy seeing anybody elses depiction of their own experiences