Video games can never be art.

*rolls an 18 for charisma*

*art*

Imho discussions about whats art and what not (example: street art) is tiresome...but REZ anyone? That game was designed to be more than just a game and is dedicated to Kandinskys work.. which doesnt make it "art", but you have to experience it to judge about that

also this:

  On 4/20/2010 at 6:01 PM, Yegg said:

Walter Benjamin's position on film in The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction can be applied to video games. I think one of the biggest reasons why people have trouble accepting video games as art is because the escapist quality of gaming while art is conventionally mentally rigorous. Also because video games are easily accessible and can be enjoyed at home whereas art is supposed to be in finite supply and one has to travel to a designated art space to enjoy it.

  On 4/20/2010 at 11:41 AM, margaret thatcher said:

i don't see why a video game has to be good to be art.

I wasn't saying it was. I was saying that one is less inclined to call it art when it's bad.

oh how i wish i could debate in english

pretty shitty stuff was said on that womens talk... stupid comparisons etc...

video games are COMERCIAL ART

  On 4/20/2010 at 6:46 PM, Velazquez said:

*rolls an 18 for charisma*

*shart*

fixt

"How can you listen to autechre? That isn't music. It's got no tune. It's just noise."

but how can you properly discuss art without some kind of definition that people can more or less agree on?

@plstk

i think this is why ive been kind of fumbling in this thread

maybe the whole argument is pointless

*passes go*

*ends up in Guggenheim*

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:15 PM, Z_B_Z said:

but how can you properly discuss art without some kind of definition that people can more or less agree on?

 

@plstk

 

i think this is why ive been kind of fumbling in this thread

 

maybe the whole argument is pointless

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:15 PM, Root5 said:

"How can you listen to autechre? That isn't music. It's got no tune. It's just noise."

definetly not music, in the comon music definiton, but it is definetly art!

There's a common music definition? Were you taught a definition when you learned the word, or did you just pick up a sense of how it's commonly used.

You can make up definitions, and then you can get yes or no answers about borderline cases, but your definitions will not line up to everyone's intuitions.

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:26 PM, Root5 said:

There's a common music definition? Were you taught a definition when you learned the word, or did you just pick up a sense of how it's commonly used.

 

You can make up definitions, and then you can get yes or no answers about borderline cases, but your definitions will not line up to everyone's intuitions.

there is music, and there is noise, both art

Music is any arrangement of sounds used as expression, basically. So, pretty much anything goes.

But, it's interesting to see Ebert suggest movies (like those of Kubrick) because games are much like movies now, just more interactive. He made a huge jump from Picasso to Kubrick, in terms of mediums. Games would fall in between traditional art forms and movies, I would think.

Music is a word I hear people use when the radio is on, or when they go to concerts, or when they listen to cds, or ...

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:33 PM, mafted said:

Music is any arrangement of sounds used as expression, basically. So..

I'd call the save-state bending in the ekt forum music. But were people using that as expression, or were they just jiggering around and hoping to hear something neat.

The half-dead fuck's never seen or played God of War III then...

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:36 PM, Root5 said:

Music is a word I hear people use when the radio is on, or when they go to concerts, or when they listen to cds, or ...

 

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:33 PM, mafted said:

Music is any arrangement of sounds used as expression, basically. So..

 

I'd call the save-state bending in the ekt forum music. But were people using that as expression, or were they just jiggering around and hoping to hear something neat.

I'd say both.. the stuff that ends up sounding neat (or not) is music either way, even if it's improvisational. e.g. John Cage.

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:33 PM, mafted said:

Music is any arrangement of sounds used as expression, basically. So, pretty much anything goes.

 

on the begginings those arrangements followed rules, most of them still on use today, so, if not used, might sound unmusical

those rules might be rythm, melodie, harmony etc...

there is "music" nowdays that don't follow those "rules" or patterns, i don't like to call it music, but it's juat a word, whatever...it's like calling IDM to waht we listen... doesn't seem right IMO

So what's the point of debating whether video games are art or not. We all know what they are. Saying that they are art or that they aren't art doesn't change anything.

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:44 PM, Root5 said:

So what's the point of debating whether video games are art or not. We all know what they are. Saying that they are art or that they aren't art doesn't change anything.

definetly

it's just another pseudo-intelectual-filosofical debate

now, i can understand the frustration of someone who designed a game, i mean, draw and stuff, and he might not be considered an artist

Of course, what we're doing now, saying that this is a useless debate, is an equally pseudo-intelectual-filosofical debate.

it's hard to fathom that it's not an artform if you've payed attention to games since the early days (like Atari and the Doom series). but yea, whatever. Ebert just can't handle games becoming more like his beloved movies.

  On 4/20/2010 at 1:11 PM, Z_B_Z said:

funnily enough, i almost brought up fancis bacon instead of picasso.. dont get hung up on the specific examples that i sighted. im just saying i question the potential for video games to deal with real issues. people look to games for entertainment. you talk of moments in games that stirred you, but a moment is leaps and bounds away from a fully formed work of art meant to affect the viewer in a profound way

real issues?? i think that's where art went wrong, take an example, hip hop!

and if a product his made with the specific intention of affecting another, well, for me, that's not art. call it something else!

  On 4/20/2010 at 7:54 PM, Root5 said:

Of course, what we're doing now, saying that this is a useless debate, is an equally pseudo-intelectual-filosofical debate.

the MAIN discussion is useless, but there are few points that can be discussed.

Nobi Nobi Boy is a piece of art, fuck the haters.

Games ARE "fully formed works of art meant to affect the viewer in a profound way".. or is that what you meant?

What about non-video games? What about soccer? Or king of the hill? Is king of the hill a work of art? How about tongue murderer?