Caffeine Thread

Oh and Café Direct Organic Machu Picchu m8

That Aeropress looks interesting, especially for that price.

Yerba Mate like my ancestors did, innit.

I drank two Americanos on Monday and couldn't sleep til 3am >:|

So caffeine. Amazing drug. Here's some things I know about caffeine.

Coffee is great. It is a super food. It has many nutritional benefits. It's has polyphenols which are powerful anti-oxidants. It stimulates dopamine production.

That being said,

The best tea for cognitive function in my experience is yerba mate. Drinking a concentrated dose gives a huge benefit to concentration and thinking without the caffeine spike of coffee. Tim Ferriss swears by it and he's a self-medicating guinea pig.

You shouldn't drink cheap coffee. Coffee is susceptible to damage when it's a berry and certain production practices increase tannin content. Tannins are responsible for bitter coffee. If the coffee you are drinking is bitter then it's either low quality or poorly prepared. There are various reasons for avoiding ingesting tannins. Just google them.

Cheap coffee is also susceptible to mold toxin contamination (mycotoxins), and long-term high dosage exposure to them can cause worsening health and many negative side-effects.

You shouldn't use keurigs. Firstly, the K-cups aren't recyclable or biodegradable and they are extremely wasteful. Secondly, plastic is a know endocrine disruptor (your hormones) and you should avoid adding exposure to it especially when it concerns consuming things that have been in heated plastic. The coffee in k-cups is also shit. You can use a reusable k-cup in which you can add your own coffee.

Using paper filters soaks up the polyphenols in coffee reducing the benefit of it as a super food.

A french press is the best way to prepare coffee for total benefit.

Mixing fat with coffee in the form of MCT oil and/or grassfed butter is extremely nutritious and can be great for neurological function and energy. Wonder why your Starbucks latte gives you so much energy? It's loaded with fat and sugar.

If coffee gives you headaches you likely are suffering from one or many of these things:

a. poor gut bacteria balance and/or bacterial/fungal overgrowth in your body

b. dehydration

c. shit coffee

d. gluten sensitivity exacerbated by shit coffee

so addicted to my morning coffer + sigaret

i just need 2 cups stuffed and i can handle another day in this hellfuck

very laxative ass well

This is me:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/delicate-little-man-kept-awake-all-night-by-having,37312/

ha me too. sensitive types ftw

  On 1/21/2015 at 10:42 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

d. gluten sensitivity exacerbated by shit coffee

oh god

that just gave me a fucking headache

Also a French press is not the best way unless you pour the water on somehow whilst the lid is on or potentially pouring cold water on first or adding cold water to the boiled water.Otherwise you'll lose antioxidants to the air. Simpler is a stove-top percolator. They are a perfect invention in every way.

  On 1/23/2015 at 2:23 AM, tauboo said:

 

  On 1/21/2015 at 10:42 PM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

d. gluten sensitivity exacerbated by shit coffee

oh god

 

that just gave me a fucking headache

 

If you're getting a headache from you monitor I would suggest this program called f.lux. It will alter the light quality of your monitor so that it's easier on your eyes, and helps maintain your body's natural circadian rhythms. https://justgetflux.com/

  On 1/23/2015 at 2:28 AM, tauboo said:

Also a French press is not the best way unless you pour the water on somehow whilst the lid is on or potentially pouring cold water on first or adding cold water to the boiled water.Otherwise you'll lose antioxidants to the air. Simpler is a stove-top percolator. They are a perfect invention in every way.

I've not seen any research that supports most of these statements. You shouldn't use cold water to brew coffee. Oxygen exposure is the basis for oxidation though so you kind of have that part right. Stove-top percolators are cool. Pretty much the same thing as a french press although I've never used one personally.

I've seen the research m8. French press and percolator is a very different process.

edit: " so you kind of have that part right" your patronising tone is ridiculous..you know you can learn things from other people?

You're going to start the oxidation process by exposing the coffee to air anyway when you drink it, so your proposed method is kind of silly. Anyhow, the french press is meant to preserve the polyphenols which are the antioxidant part of the coffee, and they are generally made of glass and metal which makes them safer.

Exogenous anti-oxidants don't hold a candle to our endogenous anti-oxidant system anyway. Uric acid, superoxide dismutase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione, etc. Most of them rarely make it into our bloodstream. When it comes to fruit/veg, their anti-oxidant capacity is indirect by elevation of uric acid. Funny story: you can elevate uric acid by drinking a soda. Caffeine in coffee also is known to elevate uric acid. For the most part, polyphenols that do actually cross the intestinal barrier are quickly degraded by our liver.

Personally I would argue that caffeine itself is primarily the best reason to drink coffee anyway.

But 'dem anti-oxidants yo..

+ Best reason to eat fruit/veg is for the nutrients and fermentable fibre.

Safer how?

You know when you boil veg you lose antioxidants to the water and porous (like courgette) or small (like petit pois) lose more? A porous veg like courgette loses antioxidants when you griddle it dry, why? Because the moisture isn't retained.. where does it go? It evaporates. You grind coffee, so that process occurs the instant boiling hot water makes contact with it, so you either want to minimise steam by using lower temperature water, or ideally use a percolator because the steam rises through it and cools as it drips though and there's a lid on it (the stove should be turned down or off as soon as the espresso begins to come through).

btw espresso tastes good

I consume about 200 mgs a day. Usually in the form of a "weak" pre-workout supplement. Tea and coffee too though. I love tea.

  On 1/23/2015 at 2:28 AM, tauboo said:

Also a French press is not the best way unless you pour the water on somehow whilst the lid is on or potentially pouring cold water on first or adding cold water to the boiled water.Otherwise you'll lose antioxidants to the air. Simpler is a stove-top percolator. They are a perfect invention in every way.

There's always a way to next level this shit. Personally i like to eat the beans straight out of the droppings of the asian palm civit, for the full spectrum of vitamins and minerlolz.

i like eating coffee beans

  On 1/23/2015 at 3:54 AM, tauboo said:

Safer how?

 

You know when you boil veg you lose antioxidants to the water and porous (like courgette) or small (like petit pois) lose more? A porous veg like courgette loses antioxidants when you griddle it dry, why? Because the moisture isn't retained.. where does it go? It evaporates. You grind coffee, so that process occurs the instant boiling hot water makes contact with it, so you either want to minimise steam by using lower temperature water, or ideally use a percolator because the steam rises through it and cools as it drips though and there's a lid on it (the stove should be turned down or off as soon as the espresso begins to come through).

 

btw espresso tastes good

Can you explain the mechanism behind evaporation of antioxidants? I'm aware that cooking in general diminishes the full nutritional benefit from foods. Most notably high heat cooking with PUFA's and meats. Proteins become denatured and thus of little benefit to the body, and they can actually become inflammatory. I've heard of green vegetables containing a certain chemical (of which I've forgotten, but this is new science) that helps the body fight cancer that is also diminished with cooking. What I have no understanding of is what exactly is evaporating that causes a loss of antioxidant properties. The method of using a french press is only designed to decrease loss of polyphenols due to filtering and as I explained earlier I believe the french press container to be better than plastics.

Also, to everyone. This is a really interesting interview with a super educated coffee enthusiast.

  On 1/23/2015 at 3:51 AM, fiznuthian said:

Exogenous anti-oxidants don't hold a candle to our endogenous anti-oxidant system anyway. Uric acid, superoxide dismutase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione, etc. Most of them rarely make it into our bloodstream. When it comes to fruit/veg, their anti-oxidant capacity is indirect by elevation of uric acid. Funny story: you can elevate uric acid by drinking a soda. Caffeine in coffee also is known to elevate uric acid. For the most part, polyphenols that do actually cross the intestinal barrier are quickly degraded by our liver.

Personally I would argue that caffeine itself is primarily the best reason to drink coffee anyway.

 

But 'dem anti-oxidants yo..

 

+ Best reason to eat fruit/veg is for the nutrients and fermentable fibre.

This is super interesting.

  On 1/23/2015 at 6:39 AM, tauboo said:

i like eating coffee beans

i've seen them coated in chocolate, is it worth buying? i realise that it takes quite a few ground beans to make a cup of coffee, so munching away on those probably wouldn't cause much offence to the body.

  On 1/23/2015 at 6:54 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 1/23/2015 at 3:54 AM, tauboo said:

Safer how?

 

You know when you boil veg you lose antioxidants to the water and porous (like courgette) or small (like petit pois) lose more? A porous veg like courgette loses antioxidants when you griddle it dry, why? Because the moisture isn't retained.. where does it go? It evaporates. You grind coffee, so that process occurs the instant boiling hot water makes contact with it, so you either want to minimise steam by using lower temperature water, or ideally use a percolator because the steam rises through it and cools as it drips though and there's a lid on it (the stove should be turned down or off as soon as the espresso begins to come through).

 

btw espresso tastes good

 

Can you explain the mechanism behind evaporation of antioxidants? I'm aware that cooking in general diminishes the full nutritional benefit from foods. Most notably high heat cooking with PUFA's and meats. Proteins become denatured and thus of little benefit to the body, and they can actually become inflammatory. I've heard of green vegetables containing a certain chemical (of which I've forgotten, but this is new science) that helps the body fight cancer that is also diminished with cooking. What I have no understanding of is what exactly is evaporating that causes a loss of antioxidant properties. The method of using a french press is only designed to decrease loss of polyphenols due to filtering and as I explained earlier I believe the french press container to be better than plastics.

 

 

Also, to everyone. This is a really interesting interview with a super educated coffee enthusiast.

 

  On 1/23/2015 at 3:51 AM, fiznuthian said:

Exogenous anti-oxidants don't hold a candle to our endogenous anti-oxidant system anyway. Uric acid, superoxide dismutase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione, etc. Most of them rarely make it into our bloodstream. When it comes to fruit/veg, their anti-oxidant capacity is indirect by elevation of uric acid. Funny story: you can elevate uric acid by drinking a soda. Caffeine in coffee also is known to elevate uric acid. For the most part, polyphenols that do actually cross the intestinal barrier are quickly degraded by our liver.

Personally I would argue that caffeine itself is primarily the best reason to drink coffee anyway.

 

But 'dem anti-oxidants yo..

 

+ Best reason to eat fruit/veg is for the nutrients and fermentable fibre.

 

This is super interesting.

 

Even more interesting is what happens when you taketh the fruit and vegetables away.

Check this out: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12064344

  Quote

 

 

Epidemiological studies suggest that foods rich in flavonoids might reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer. The objective of the present study was to investigate the effect of green tea extract (GTE) used as a food antioxidant on markers of oxidative status after dietary depletion of flavonoids and catechins. The study was designed as a 2 x 3 weeks blinded human cross-over intervention study (eight smokers, eight non-smokers) with GTE corresponding to a daily intake of 18.6 mg catechins/d. The GTE was incorporated into meat patties and consumed with a strictly controlled diet otherwise low in flavonoids. GTE intervention increased plasma antioxidant capacity from 1.35 to 1.56 (P<0.02) in postprandially collected plasma, most prominently in smokers. The intervention did not significantly affect markers in fasting blood samples, including plasma or haemoglobin protein oxidation, plasma oxidation lagtime, or activities of the erythrocyte superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione reductase and catalase. Neither were fasting plasma triacylglycerol, cholesterol, alpha-tocopherol, retinol, beta-carotene, or ascorbic acid affected by intervention. Urinary 8-oxo-deoxyguanosine excretion was also unaffected. Catechins from the extract were excreted into urine with a half-life of less than 2 h in accordance with the short-term effects on plasma antioxidant capacity. Since no long-term effects of GTE were observed, the study essentially served as a fruit and vegetables depletion study. The overall effect of the 10-week period without dietary fruits and vegetables was a decrease in oxidative damage to DNA, blood proteins, and plasma lipids, concomitantly with marked changes in antioxidative defence.

This kind of pattern has been repeated in other low CHO studies as well. What's clear is that fruit/vegetables are a bit of a double edged sword. They provide nutrition but at the same time engage anti-oxidant enzymes in the process. This hopefully is to our benefit by way of hormesis. Modest doses of fructose can spike uric acid and work to our favor. Similarly, many of the polyphenols and flavonoids and other oddities similarly instigate endogenous (the ones we make ourselves) antioxidant enzymes, but not because we absorb them and they do the dirty work. Phytochemicals are often plant defense mechanisms for thwarting infection and sometimes avoiding predation. Our biological response to them is our way of consuming them safely. Polyphenols for instance are eliminated in our liver as if they are xenobiotic and potentially harmful because of their molecular structure and redox potential.

Truthfully, for a person worried about oxidation in their bloodstream, just not eating plants would be quite ideal. But it's just not that simple either. It's likely to our benefit to feed our intestinal guests. These microbes depend on glucose and fermentable fibers to thrive, and in return we depend on these cultures to modulate immune responses and provide competition for potential invading exogenous pathogens. They also happily metabolize substrates into nutrients and short chain fatty acids we absorb through the intestinal wall.

The anti-oxidant craze is way overblown, and possibly doing more harm than good. It's not about eating more and more, it's about eating just enough to possibly benefit. Some of the antioxidants are notably pro-oxidant when consumed in excess. Supplements make this possible, but you'd have to eat a fuck ton of food to meet that kind of demand. The best thing about coffee is caffeine. Here's a great read if you want to be amazed by how widespread caffeine affects us.

Fiznuthian.

Droppin' knowledge n shit.

haha

yeah you're right fizzy. i was just being pedantic about anti-oxidants--i don't actually care, just consume a healthy and balanced diet and all is good eh

:) there is definitely best ways to make coffee tastes good though!

fancy / expensive coffees are great but i must admit that the stuff i drink at home is a big tin of instant. it costs like 15 bucks and last half a year. it tastes ok after adding milk or cream but , yeah, def not that tasty when you drink it black.