Inception - Chris Nolan + Leo DiCaprio = best movie of the summer?

  Quote

"Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man."

this brilliant post has been saved to our archives. plees n thx u chen .

I honestly don't know which one is worse.

But remy - I think you'll find that Zhuangzi is a dead chink, not a gook.

I just saw this as an in-flight movie. I read a bit too much about it here beforehand, which spoiled it a bit. I think it's a pretty good idea for a film, but handled in almost completely the wrong way. Basically I agree with those who said it wasn't nearly dreamlike enough, and that Nolan was too obsessed with the rules of his universe, to the point of absurdity - I mean, Limbo? Which can actually kill you because of too much accumulated "age experience"? What?

I think I need to rewatch it, as obviously I missed some things. Like, how did the guys in the dream within the van dream know that there would be two kicks, when the van breaks through the guardrail and when it hits the water - I thought they were fleeing from Fischer's military goons in a kind of random pell-mell fashion?

Also I didn't really understand the part you liked Chen, where Arthur rigged the elevator to provide a kick in the zero-g enviro, I mean I got it, but it was a bit confusing while watching - he sort of made a rocket elevator with explosives a la the Matrix?

Anyway here's how I would have made the film. Cut out 90% of the gunplay, chases, the Mombasa bullshit. The best parts of the film, as always, were the emotional parts. Cobb's relationship with Mal, Fischer's relationship with his dad. And the psychological trickery aspects. I would have liked them to do more of a "profile" on Fischer. Visit his school, where he grew up...try to make the whole "architect" role actually mean something, I mean they did all this talking about a maze and it didn't amount to anything. It would have helped if he had had some sort of dark secret too, not just Cobb. Something that meshed in a weird, provocative way with Cobb's secret, like the death of a childhood friend or something. Also it seems dreams have so many other potent archetypes that seem to span cultures - I'm not a Jungian, but even my Chinese girlfriend has had the dream of her teeth falling out. There's always the one with the "threatening figure" too, where time slows and you get overtaken and wake up in a sweat. Lots of juicy ideas there on how to mine stuff. I mean I'd think if their goal is to get information then FEAR would be a major instrument at their disposal. They explained that away in some phony way in the film ("it needs to be a positive epiphany"--whatever). The idea of the target's subconscious getting suspicious was great, but underdeveloped. Why not actively have a new character appear who is some sort of "protector figure", rather than just faceless guys with guns...

  On 11/15/2010 at 8:54 AM, lumpenprol said:

Why not actively have a new character appear who is some sort of "protector figure", rather than just faceless guys with guns...

much better idea, actually. like the personified subconscious, a different version of Fischer that appears and acts in much more ominous and unpredictable ways than the gun-guys ... cool-scenes-potential etc. But they chose otherwise for some reason ...

not to mention that the dude changing into Tom Berenger was pretty dumb...a lot of dumb touches in the movie, actually - the hurr durr "bigger gun" scene and the "haha trick Escher stairwell" to name a few. I'm not convince Nolan is half as clever as he thinks he is...

thinking more about this on my flight, I think one of the reasons the film kind of fell flat for me is most of the characters are fairly calm, whereas in dreams, at least in my experience, emotions are magnified. That's why the sequences in Jacob's Ladder work, heck even why some sequences in What Dreams May Come worked. It's why the sequence where they go to his "basement" (lol, effective but way too literal) and Mol comes up and shakes the elevator door violently worked. It seems to me that a lot of the content of my dreams directly relates to my own feelings of confidence or insecurity. Eg, if I'm doing well in my life I'll have a dream where I'm smooth or score with women, but if I'm at a low point I'll have a dream involving humiliation, where nothing works right. I wish they had played with that idea more. Cobb's mental state re: Mol should have given him more "performance anxiety", where nothing worked right for him. Or something...

Has anyone here ever made a life decision based on a dream? I certainly haven't...

Also why this cost 200 mil or whatever is beyond me. It seemed a solid 60-80 mil film to me, a couple of big setpieces, but besides that...though I was watching on a tiny airplane screen, I thought I noticed a bunch of unnecessary 3D, such as using lots of digital cars and digital doubles during the rain car chase, when they could have just as easily dialed it down slightly and used stunt doubles...

I still think Prestige was Nolan's most emotionally satisfying film, though it had its flaws for sure. And Memento was pretty good, though also emotionally chilly. I'm not much of a Nolan fan and I don't see that changing. Really disliked the Batman films, apart from a few scenes...

btw i had my first controlled lucid dream

every time i realize i'm dreaming i automatically wake because i get too excited, but this time i was able to remain calm and i didn't woke up.

i stood there checking if i was really dreaming taking in and out my earplugs but always with the hearing sensation when you have them on, also the light switch trick.

the strange thing was that it was so real that i didn't knew what to do, like, yeah, i'm in my room, now what...

Should have gone to sleep and had a lucid dream within a lucid dream, man. Or had a wank.

I personally believe that What Dreams May Come is a great film. Aesthetically and as a journey, it's brilliant.

Admittedly, it's a little preachy, but the creation of Heaven and Hell via memories/fears is much more engaging than Inception's world.

i've tried the lucid dream inside lucid dream, i went from my bed to my window, it was lame...

Hell is a dungeon of lost souls, faces matted into a collective consciousness. Robin Williams' wife committed suicide and was subsequently sent to hell. He goes to save her.

Heaven is the world of the wife's painting.

It's really heavy. Punishingly depressed. But so much more intellectually and emotional tickling than Inception.

yeah I remember it being really heavy, especially the sequence in that bell-shaped dungeon with his wife. I didn't like the sappy painted-looking parts, much of it was too maxfield parrish (or even thomas kinkade)...still the movie had some things going for it, would like to see it again. Plus it had Werner Herzog head!

What dreams may come is one of my all time favourite films..

  On 11/15/2010 at 8:54 AM, lumpenprol said:

I just saw this as an in-flight movie. I read a bit too much about it here beforehand, which spoiled it a bit. I think it's a pretty good idea for a film, but handled in almost completely the wrong way. Basically I agree with those who said it wasn't nearly dreamlike enough, and that Nolan was too obsessed with the rules of his universe, to the point of absurdity - I mean, Limbo? Which can actually kill you because of too much accumulated "age experience"? What?

 

I think I need to rewatch it, as obviously I missed some things. Like, how did the guys in the dream within the van dream know that there would be two kicks, when the van breaks through the guardrail and when it hits the water - I thought they were fleeing from Fischer's military goons in a kind of random pell-mell fashion?

 

Also I didn't really understand the part you liked Chen, where Arthur rigged the elevator to provide a kick in the zero-g enviro, I mean I got it, but it was a bit confusing while watching - he sort of made a rocket elevator with explosives a la the Matrix?

 

Anyway here's how I would have made the film. Cut out 90% of the gunplay, chases, the Mombasa bullshit. The best parts of the film, as always, were the emotional parts. Cobb's relationship with Mal, Fischer's relationship with his dad. And the psychological trickery aspects. I would have liked them to do more of a "profile" on Fischer. Visit his school, where he grew up...try to make the whole "architect" role actually mean something, I mean they did all this talking about a maze and it didn't amount to anything. It would have helped if he had had some sort of dark secret too, not just Cobb. Something that meshed in a weird, provocative way with Cobb's secret, like the death of a childhood friend or something. Also it seems dreams have so many other potent archetypes that seem to span cultures - I'm not a Jungian, but even my Chinese girlfriend has had the dream of her teeth falling out. There's always the one with the "threatening figure" too, where time slows and you get overtaken and wake up in a sweat. Lots of juicy ideas there on how to mine stuff. I mean I'd think if their goal is to get information then FEAR would be a major instrument at their disposal. They explained that away in some phony way in the film ("it needs to be a positive epiphany"--whatever). The idea of the target's subconscious getting suspicious was great, but underdeveloped. Why not actively have a new character appear who is some sort of "protector figure", rather than just faceless guys with guns...

props to whatever airline you flew that made that the in-flight movie. kind of apropos to the plot. i usually get shit like "hotel for dogs" or "marmaduke" as the in-flight movie.

  On 11/15/2010 at 4:34 PM, Gary C said:

I personally believe that What Dreams May Come is a great film. Aesthetically and as a journey, it's brilliant.

Admittedly, it's a little preachy, but the creation of Heaven and Hell via memories/fears is much more engaging than Inception's world.

I remember being very affected by this movie as well, but then again i was 19 and an emotional wreck when i saw it. i need to see it again. i remember recommending it to people and they always thought i was saying "wet dreams may come." the fact that it wasn't a total cringefest with cuba and robin joining forces is amazing in itself.

  On 11/15/2010 at 3:23 PM, lumpenprol said:

Has anyone here ever made a life decision based on a dream? I certainly haven't...

I'd say so. nothing like really big but e.g. I only started working with spray cans because I dreamed about it, went out the same day and bought some, same colors like in my dream. Maybe not life decision but certainly ideas regarding creative work.

  On 11/15/2010 at 10:52 PM, Fred McGriff said:

props to whatever airline you flew that made that the in-flight movie. kind of apropos to the plot. i usually get shit like "hotel for dogs" or "marmaduke" as the in-flight movie.

Langoliers

  On 11/15/2010 at 10:52 PM, Fred McGriff said:

 

props to whatever airline you flew that made that the in-flight movie. kind of apropos to the plot. i usually get shit like "hotel for dogs" or "marmaduke" as the in-flight movie.

Hainan Airlines...why is it the Asian airlines always have drop-dead gorgeous stewardesses? Damn it's distracting

Also saw Toy Story 3, which I really liked, one of the better Pixar films I thought

Where do Hainan airlines fly to/from?

just used them to fly to Belgium from Shanghai, first time

You should go to Hainan Island it's a good frolic this time of year.

Hot sandy beaches, palm trees, and whores who sell drugs from motocycles.

OK so these two gentleman are completely correct. Just saw it for the first time tonight. Wow. What a disappointment.

I know I'm about 6 months too late, but I really can't get over why nominally intelligent people thought this was good.

I didn't know it was possible to make a rehash of a hugely successful decade old film, remove all the visual and creative interest and still have it be a success. Thankfully, Hollywood, Nolan and idiotic moviegoers stepped up to the plate. I'm impressed.

  On 11/16/2010 at 12:18 AM, lumpenprol said:

  On 11/15/2010 at 10:52 PM, Fred McGriff said:

 

props to whatever airline you flew that made that the in-flight movie. kind of apropos to the plot. i usually get shit like "hotel for dogs" or "marmaduke" as the in-flight movie.

 

Hainan Airlines...why is it the Asian airlines always have drop-dead gorgeous stewardesses? Damn it's distracting

 

Also saw Toy Story 3, which I really liked, one of the better Pixar films I thought

Hiring policy. I used to date a stewardess in Korea. And basically it's 30 and under. Same all over asia, although Japan is changing as their population ages.

  On 12/4/2010 at 5:49 AM, dr lopez said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 7/17/2010 at 7:39 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

basically, this distinguishes itself from your typical heist flick by taking place in people's dreams. the dream worlds have nothing of the uncanny, mysterious, charged qualities of real dreams but are more or less exactly like the worlds of your average heist flick: lots of guns, astonishingly everyone is an amazing warrior capable of defeating enemies in suits in matrix-esque gravity-defying battles, using all manner of bombs and guns with complete expertise, various chase scenes, sundry explosions, etc. of course, cool effects remind us that we're in a cool movie about dreams and not some boring hollywood action movie so that's way cool man but in the dream world you get little glitches (matrix cat anyone?), neato gravitational shifts, totally wild twists in the appearance of things...and that's it. otherwise dreams are basically a superficial hodge podge of painful and repressed memories that manifest themselves in violence. while experts who have worked with dicaprio in several missions fail to notice that his subconscious has been dangerously corrupting the dream worlds and endangering their missions (well, they notice but that's about it. "yo dude, should i be worried that your dead wife keeps fucking up our missions?" "nah, bro. i got this." "aight.") and fail to inquire into the late night voyages into his subconscious that have been polluting their missions, juno walks in and instantly uncovers his inner life by asking simple questions and exerting a modicum of interest in what he's up to. her name is ariadne by the way. she makes labyrinths. lol. and decaprio's repressed wife that is running around ruining things, her name is mal. fucking lol. the dream within a dream element just provides extra action vignettes (eg, shift from a car chase to a snow mobile chase) and of course gives the viewer that satisfying "what is really real?" feeling we all love so much. whose dream is this? are they really awake or is this another dream? fuck if i care.

 

 

but it was a fun summer flick i guess.

 

  On 11/15/2010 at 8:54 AM, lumpenprol said:

I just saw this as an in-flight movie. I read a bit too much about it here beforehand, which spoiled it a bit. I think it's a pretty good idea for a film, but handled in almost completely the wrong way. Basically I agree with those who said it wasn't nearly dreamlike enough, and that Nolan was too obsessed with the rules of his universe, to the point of absurdity - I mean, Limbo? Which can actually kill you because of too much accumulated "age experience"? What?

 

I think I need to rewatch it, as obviously I missed some things. Like, how did the guys in the dream within the van dream know that there would be two kicks, when the van breaks through the guardrail and when it hits the water - I thought they were fleeing from Fischer's military goons in a kind of random pell-mell fashion?

 

Also I didn't really understand the part you liked Chen, where Arthur rigged the elevator to provide a kick in the zero-g enviro, I mean I got it, but it was a bit confusing while watching - he sort of made a rocket elevator with explosives a la the Matrix?

 

Anyway here's how I would have made the film. Cut out 90% of the gunplay, chases, the Mombasa bullshit. The best parts of the film, as always, were the emotional parts. Cobb's relationship with Mal, Fischer's relationship with his dad. And the psychological trickery aspects. I would have liked them to do more of a "profile" on Fischer. Visit his school, where he grew up...try to make the whole "architect" role actually mean something, I mean they did all this talking about a maze and it didn't amount to anything. It would have helped if he had had some sort of dark secret too, not just Cobb. Something that meshed in a weird, provocative way with Cobb's secret, like the death of a childhood friend or something. Also it seems dreams have so many other potent archetypes that seem to span cultures - I'm not a Jungian, but even my Chinese girlfriend has had the dream of her teeth falling out. There's always the one with the "threatening figure" too, where time slows and you get overtaken and wake up in a sweat. Lots of juicy ideas there on how to mine stuff. I mean I'd think if their goal is to get information then FEAR would be a major instrument at their disposal. They explained that away in some phony way in the film ("it needs to be a positive epiphany"--whatever). The idea of the target's subconscious getting suspicious was great, but underdeveloped. Why not actively have a new character appear who is some sort of "protector figure", rather than just faceless guys with guns...

 

 

  On 11/15/2010 at 3:23 PM, lumpenprol said:

not to mention that the dude changing into Tom Berenger was pretty dumb...a lot of dumb touches in the movie, actually - the hurr durr "bigger gun" scene and the "haha trick Escher stairwell" to name a few. I'm not convince Nolan is half as clever as he thinks he is...

 

thinking more about this on my flight, I think one of the reasons the film kind of fell flat for me is most of the characters are fairly calm, whereas in dreams, at least in my experience, emotions are magnified. That's why the sequences in Jacob's Ladder work, heck even why some sequences in What Dreams May Come worked. It's why the sequence where they go to his "basement" (lol, effective but way too literal) and Mol comes up and shakes the elevator door violently worked. It seems to me that a lot of the content of my dreams directly relates to my own feelings of confidence or insecurity. Eg, if I'm doing well in my life I'll have a dream where I'm smooth or score with women, but if I'm at a low point I'll have a dream involving humiliation, where nothing works right. I wish they had played with that idea more. Cobb's mental state re: Mol should have given him more "performance anxiety", where nothing worked right for him. Or something...

 

Has anyone here ever made a life decision based on a dream? I certainly haven't...

 

Also why this cost 200 mil or whatever is beyond me. It seemed a solid 60-80 mil film to me, a couple of big setpieces, but besides that...though I was watching on a tiny airplane screen, I thought I noticed a bunch of unnecessary 3D, such as using lots of digital cars and digital doubles during the rain car chase, when they could have just as easily dialed it down slightly and used stunt doubles...

 

I still think Prestige was Nolan's most emotionally satisfying film, though it had its flaws for sure. And Memento was pretty good, though also emotionally chilly. I'm not much of a Nolan fan and I don't see that changing. Really disliked the Batman films, apart from a few scenes...

 

 

OK so these two gentleman are completely correct. Just saw it for the first time tonight. Wow. What a disappointment.

 

 

I know I'm about 6 months too late, but I really can't get over why nominally intelligent people thought this was good.

 

I didn't know it was possible to make a rehash of a hugely successful decade old film, remove all the visual and creative interest and still have it be a success. Thankfully, Hollywood, Nolan and idiotic moviegoers stepped up to the plate. I'm impressed.

Perhaps you're being a bit harsh on it? It was enjoyable for a summer action flick.

The art of lowered expectations.

"It was an enjoyable Hollywood pile of shit."

  On 12/4/2010 at 5:49 AM, dr lopez said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 7/17/2010 at 7:39 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

basically, this distinguishes itself from your typical heist flick by taking place in people's dreams. the dream worlds have nothing of the uncanny, mysterious, charged qualities of real dreams but are more or less exactly like the worlds of your average heist flick: lots of guns, astonishingly everyone is an amazing warrior capable of defeating enemies in suits in matrix-esque gravity-defying battles, using all manner of bombs and guns with complete expertise, various chase scenes, sundry explosions, etc. of course, cool effects remind us that we're in a cool movie about dreams and not some boring hollywood action movie so that's way cool man but in the dream world you get little glitches (matrix cat anyone?), neato gravitational shifts, totally wild twists in the appearance of things...and that's it. otherwise dreams are basically a superficial hodge podge of painful and repressed memories that manifest themselves in violence. while experts who have worked with dicaprio in several missions fail to notice that his subconscious has been dangerously corrupting the dream worlds and endangering their missions (well, they notice but that's about it. "yo dude, should i be worried that your dead wife keeps fucking up our missions?" "nah, bro. i got this." "aight.") and fail to inquire into the late night voyages into his subconscious that have been polluting their missions, juno walks in and instantly uncovers his inner life by asking simple questions and exerting a modicum of interest in what he's up to. her name is ariadne by the way. she makes labyrinths. lol. and decaprio's repressed wife that is running around ruining things, her name is mal. fucking lol. the dream within a dream element just provides extra action vignettes (eg, shift from a car chase to a snow mobile chase) and of course gives the viewer that satisfying "what is really real?" feeling we all love so much. whose dream is this? are they really awake or is this another dream? fuck if i care.

 

 

but it was a fun summer flick i guess.

 

  On 11/15/2010 at 8:54 AM, lumpenprol said:

I just saw this as an in-flight movie. I read a bit too much about it here beforehand, which spoiled it a bit. I think it's a pretty good idea for a film, but handled in almost completely the wrong way. Basically I agree with those who said it wasn't nearly dreamlike enough, and that Nolan was too obsessed with the rules of his universe, to the point of absurdity - I mean, Limbo? Which can actually kill you because of too much accumulated "age experience"? What?

 

I think I need to rewatch it, as obviously I missed some things. Like, how did the guys in the dream within the van dream know that there would be two kicks, when the van breaks through the guardrail and when it hits the water - I thought they were fleeing from Fischer's military goons in a kind of random pell-mell fashion?

 

Also I didn't really understand the part you liked Chen, where Arthur rigged the elevator to provide a kick in the zero-g enviro, I mean I got it, but it was a bit confusing while watching - he sort of made a rocket elevator with explosives a la the Matrix?

 

Anyway here's how I would have made the film. Cut out 90% of the gunplay, chases, the Mombasa bullshit. The best parts of the film, as always, were the emotional parts. Cobb's relationship with Mal, Fischer's relationship with his dad. And the psychological trickery aspects. I would have liked them to do more of a "profile" on Fischer. Visit his school, where he grew up...try to make the whole "architect" role actually mean something, I mean they did all this talking about a maze and it didn't amount to anything. It would have helped if he had had some sort of dark secret too, not just Cobb. Something that meshed in a weird, provocative way with Cobb's secret, like the death of a childhood friend or something. Also it seems dreams have so many other potent archetypes that seem to span cultures - I'm not a Jungian, but even my Chinese girlfriend has had the dream of her teeth falling out. There's always the one with the "threatening figure" too, where time slows and you get overtaken and wake up in a sweat. Lots of juicy ideas there on how to mine stuff. I mean I'd think if their goal is to get information then FEAR would be a major instrument at their disposal. They explained that away in some phony way in the film ("it needs to be a positive epiphany"--whatever). The idea of the target's subconscious getting suspicious was great, but underdeveloped. Why not actively have a new character appear who is some sort of "protector figure", rather than just faceless guys with guns...

 

 

  On 11/15/2010 at 3:23 PM, lumpenprol said:

not to mention that the dude changing into Tom Berenger was pretty dumb...a lot of dumb touches in the movie, actually - the hurr durr "bigger gun" scene and the "haha trick Escher stairwell" to name a few. I'm not convince Nolan is half as clever as he thinks he is...

 

thinking more about this on my flight, I think one of the reasons the film kind of fell flat for me is most of the characters are fairly calm, whereas in dreams, at least in my experience, emotions are magnified. That's why the sequences in Jacob's Ladder work, heck even why some sequences in What Dreams May Come worked. It's why the sequence where they go to his "basement" (lol, effective but way too literal) and Mol comes up and shakes the elevator door violently worked. It seems to me that a lot of the content of my dreams directly relates to my own feelings of confidence or insecurity. Eg, if I'm doing well in my life I'll have a dream where I'm smooth or score with women, but if I'm at a low point I'll have a dream involving humiliation, where nothing works right. I wish they had played with that idea more. Cobb's mental state re: Mol should have given him more "performance anxiety", where nothing worked right for him. Or something...

 

Has anyone here ever made a life decision based on a dream? I certainly haven't...

 

Also why this cost 200 mil or whatever is beyond me. It seemed a solid 60-80 mil film to me, a couple of big setpieces, but besides that...though I was watching on a tiny airplane screen, I thought I noticed a bunch of unnecessary 3D, such as using lots of digital cars and digital doubles during the rain car chase, when they could have just as easily dialed it down slightly and used stunt doubles...

 

I still think Prestige was Nolan's most emotionally satisfying film, though it had its flaws for sure. And Memento was pretty good, though also emotionally chilly. I'm not much of a Nolan fan and I don't see that changing. Really disliked the Batman films, apart from a few scenes...

 

 

OK so these two gentleman are completely correct. Just saw it for the first time tonight. Wow. What a disappointment.

 

 

I know I'm about 6 months too late, but I really can't get over why nominally intelligent people thought this was good.

 

I didn't know it was possible to make a rehash of a hugely successful decade old film, remove all the visual and creative interest and still have it be a success. Thankfully, Hollywood, Nolan and idiotic moviegoers stepped up to the plate. I'm impressed.

  On 12/4/2010 at 7:18 PM, The Overlook said:

The art of lowered expectations.

 

"It was an enjoyable Hollywood pile of shit."

everyone seems to have no problem saying why it wasn't good, but where's the explanation over why its BAD?

anyone who believes any hype in Hollywood or over movies before they watch them are one,

fucking idiots in the first place

and two,

bound to be disappointed

saying criticisms like "its shit dur hur big gun scene was stupid" might not make the movie a classic, but to say its BAD or "shit" just from things like that is a little too harsh.

I was about to say these same people are probably the ones that think the Room is a classic because its conveniently pretentious to do so.

Standards have been so lowered that movies like the Inception are considered masterpieces lol, social conformity is a tough bitch.

  On 12/4/2010 at 7:53 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 12/4/2010 at 5:49 AM, dr lopez said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 7/17/2010 at 7:39 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

basically, this distinguishes itself from your typical heist flick by taking place in people's dreams. the dream worlds have nothing of the uncanny, mysterious, charged qualities of real dreams but are more or less exactly like the worlds of your average heist flick: lots of guns, astonishingly everyone is an amazing warrior capable of defeating enemies in suits in matrix-esque gravity-defying battles, using all manner of bombs and guns with complete expertise, various chase scenes, sundry explosions, etc. of course, cool effects remind us that we're in a cool movie about dreams and not some boring hollywood action movie so that's way cool man but in the dream world you get little glitches (matrix cat anyone?), neato gravitational shifts, totally wild twists in the appearance of things...and that's it. otherwise dreams are basically a superficial hodge podge of painful and repressed memories that manifest themselves in violence. while experts who have worked with dicaprio in several missions fail to notice that his subconscious has been dangerously corrupting the dream worlds and endangering their missions (well, they notice but that's about it. "yo dude, should i be worried that your dead wife keeps fucking up our missions?" "nah, bro. i got this." "aight.") and fail to inquire into the late night voyages into his subconscious that have been polluting their missions, juno walks in and instantly uncovers his inner life by asking simple questions and exerting a modicum of interest in what he's up to. her name is ariadne by the way. she makes labyrinths. lol. and decaprio's repressed wife that is running around ruining things, her name is mal. fucking lol. the dream within a dream element just provides extra action vignettes (eg, shift from a car chase to a snow mobile chase) and of course gives the viewer that satisfying "what is really real?" feeling we all love so much. whose dream is this? are they really awake or is this another dream? fuck if i care.

 

 

but it was a fun summer flick i guess.

 

  On 11/15/2010 at 8:54 AM, lumpenprol said:

I just saw this as an in-flight movie. I read a bit too much about it here beforehand, which spoiled it a bit. I think it's a pretty good idea for a film, but handled in almost completely the wrong way. Basically I agree with those who said it wasn't nearly dreamlike enough, and that Nolan was too obsessed with the rules of his universe, to the point of absurdity - I mean, Limbo? Which can actually kill you because of too much accumulated "age experience"? What?

 

I think I need to rewatch it, as obviously I missed some things. Like, how did the guys in the dream within the van dream know that there would be two kicks, when the van breaks through the guardrail and when it hits the water - I thought they were fleeing from Fischer's military goons in a kind of random pell-mell fashion?

 

Also I didn't really understand the part you liked Chen, where Arthur rigged the elevator to provide a kick in the zero-g enviro, I mean I got it, but it was a bit confusing while watching - he sort of made a rocket elevator with explosives a la the Matrix?

 

Anyway here's how I would have made the film. Cut out 90% of the gunplay, chases, the Mombasa bullshit. The best parts of the film, as always, were the emotional parts. Cobb's relationship with Mal, Fischer's relationship with his dad. And the psychological trickery aspects. I would have liked them to do more of a "profile" on Fischer. Visit his school, where he grew up...try to make the whole "architect" role actually mean something, I mean they did all this talking about a maze and it didn't amount to anything. It would have helped if he had had some sort of dark secret too, not just Cobb. Something that meshed in a weird, provocative way with Cobb's secret, like the death of a childhood friend or something. Also it seems dreams have so many other potent archetypes that seem to span cultures - I'm not a Jungian, but even my Chinese girlfriend has had the dream of her teeth falling out. There's always the one with the "threatening figure" too, where time slows and you get overtaken and wake up in a sweat. Lots of juicy ideas there on how to mine stuff. I mean I'd think if their goal is to get information then FEAR would be a major instrument at their disposal. They explained that away in some phony way in the film ("it needs to be a positive epiphany"--whatever). The idea of the target's subconscious getting suspicious was great, but underdeveloped. Why not actively have a new character appear who is some sort of "protector figure", rather than just faceless guys with guns...

 

 

  On 11/15/2010 at 3:23 PM, lumpenprol said:

not to mention that the dude changing into Tom Berenger was pretty dumb...a lot of dumb touches in the movie, actually - the hurr durr "bigger gun" scene and the "haha trick Escher stairwell" to name a few. I'm not convince Nolan is half as clever as he thinks he is...

 

thinking more about this on my flight, I think one of the reasons the film kind of fell flat for me is most of the characters are fairly calm, whereas in dreams, at least in my experience, emotions are magnified. That's why the sequences in Jacob's Ladder work, heck even why some sequences in What Dreams May Come worked. It's why the sequence where they go to his "basement" (lol, effective but way too literal) and Mol comes up and shakes the elevator door violently worked. It seems to me that a lot of the content of my dreams directly relates to my own feelings of confidence or insecurity. Eg, if I'm doing well in my life I'll have a dream where I'm smooth or score with women, but if I'm at a low point I'll have a dream involving humiliation, where nothing works right. I wish they had played with that idea more. Cobb's mental state re: Mol should have given him more "performance anxiety", where nothing worked right for him. Or something...

 

Has anyone here ever made a life decision based on a dream? I certainly haven't...

 

Also why this cost 200 mil or whatever is beyond me. It seemed a solid 60-80 mil film to me, a couple of big setpieces, but besides that...though I was watching on a tiny airplane screen, I thought I noticed a bunch of unnecessary 3D, such as using lots of digital cars and digital doubles during the rain car chase, when they could have just as easily dialed it down slightly and used stunt doubles...

 

I still think Prestige was Nolan's most emotionally satisfying film, though it had its flaws for sure. And Memento was pretty good, though also emotionally chilly. I'm not much of a Nolan fan and I don't see that changing. Really disliked the Batman films, apart from a few scenes...

 

 

OK so these two gentleman are completely correct. Just saw it for the first time tonight. Wow. What a disappointment.

 

 

I know I'm about 6 months too late, but I really can't get over why nominally intelligent people thought this was good.

 

I didn't know it was possible to make a rehash of a hugely successful decade old film, remove all the visual and creative interest and still have it be a success. Thankfully, Hollywood, Nolan and idiotic moviegoers stepped up to the plate. I'm impressed.

 

 

  On 12/4/2010 at 7:18 PM, The Overlook said:

The art of lowered expectations.

 

"It was an enjoyable Hollywood pile of shit."

 

 

everyone seems to have no problem saying why it wasn't good, but where's the explanation over why its BAD?

 

anyone who believes any hype in Hollywood or over movies before they watch them are one,

 

fucking idiots in the first place

 

and two,

 

bound to be disappointed

 

saying criticisms like "its shit dur hur big gun scene was stupid" might not make the movie a classic, but to say its BAD or "shit" just from things like that is a little too harsh.

 

I was about to say these same people are probably the ones that think the Room is a classic because its conveniently pretentious to do so.

I'd say it's bad because it has no characters whatsoever, the architect girl, did we ever get to see why was shee needed? what was exactly the maze that she designed?

in the moment i did things of many things that made this movie bad, but i didin't bother so much because i was gonna feel like a film student snob arguing theory or something so i forgot a lot. but i can sum it up as there's stuff that is presented and never followed upon and never used, never explained, all the film is is bang bang run run.