VHS Head - Trademark Ribbons of Gold

I guess I disagree that this album is definitively not "glitch". Obviously it doesn't sound like r-n or like, fuckin, Aoki Takamasa circa 2002 or something, but there is an element of that same thing to it, to me. Granted, I have only listened to it through I think two times, via YouTube. Because I couldn't get into it I didn't buy it.

I'm trying to think of how to describe it. I think what I would say is that compositionally this album reminds me of glitch, while clearly the sounds are different. I mean, this is just my opinion, but if you take a track like 'Brain Damaged', it reminds me a lot of that early 2000s cut-up shit. There's a lot of small-scale detail but I don't find myself latching on to any large-scale structure at all.

Maybe I'm just an asshole. I didn't like the Jackson album either really, and this reminds me of that album a lot. In my mind (and I don't mean to offend any fans by saying this), this album is a prime example of 'flippy-floppy' music—I just don't feel like a lot of the busy-ness in the music is very directed or significant.

I also personally have a pet peeve, when listening to "cut up" styles of electronic music, with people who do nothing but string a lot of staccato samples together in rhythmic patterns for entire tracks. I like when music has short sounds and long sounds in it, and when a track is made up exclusively of tiny 16th-note-size snippets, your "drum" sounds can be anything. I feel like I don't have any chance to perceive all these supposedly wonderful VHS samples because they're all just 100 ms long bursts of noise and not, you know, music. Also I am an old geezer now so maybe that's it.

I would have liked to hear this material resequenced in a way that allowed much more of the original source to shine through. Imagine (and this will really piss you off) this same kinda stuff but put together like Girl Talk did it. So big chunks of old VHS sounds put together and allowed to breathe more. I mean, I know it's not fair to ding the album for what it is NOT, but still. It's an entire album of 16th notes—I dunno how you guys can possibly make it through in one sitting.

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

I guess I disagree that this album is definitively not "glitch". Obviously it doesn't sound like r-n or like, fuckin, Aoki Takamasa circa 2002 or something, but there is an element of that same thing to it, to me. Granted, I have only listened to it through I think two times, via YouTube. Because I couldn't get into it I didn't buy it.

OK, i understand you point of view, but you seem to equate "glitch" with "cut-up", and while you might discard the differences as "bah semantics", for me "cut-up" conjures up sound collage, musique concrete, hip hop, scratch DJs, french touch, vsnares, etc, while "glitch" conjures up max/msp, microhouse, generative granular rhythmic noise squawks, Raster Noton, Ganz Graf, and sound libraries from Native Instruments with "k"s in their name filled with metallic and sci-fi clicks and bloops and shit. I guess I'm personally a bit less bored of the former rather than the latter.

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

I'm trying to think of how to describe it. I think what I would say is that compositionally this album reminds me of glitch, while clearly the sounds are different. I mean, this is just my opinion, but if you take a track like 'Brain Damaged', it reminds me a lot of that early 2000s cut-up shit. There's a lot of small-scale detail but I don't find myself latching on to any large-scale structure at all.

The small-scale is the large-scale, to my ears at least. Nothing to say here, really, this is highly subjective ground we're treading.

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

Maybe I'm just an asshole.

Quite possibly.

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

I didn't like the Jackson album either really, and this reminds me of that album a lot. In my mind (and I don't mean to offend any fans by saying this), this album is a prime example of 'flippy-floppy' music—I just don't feel like a lot of the busy-ness in the music is very directed or significant.

I can't see how you can find it insignificant to such a degree that you have a derogatory pet name for it, but again, highly subjective area.

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

I also personally have a pet peeve, when listening to "cut up" styles of electronic music, with people who do nothing but string a lot of staccato samples together in rhythmic patterns for entire tracks. I like when music has short sounds and long sounds in it, and when a track is made up exclusively of tiny 16th-note-size snippets, your "drum" sounds can be anything. I feel like I don't have any chance to perceive all these supposedly wonderful VHS samples because they're all just 100 ms long bursts of noise and not, you know, music. Also I am an old geezer now so maybe that's it.

Well, ok, point taken, and a pet peeve is a pet peeve, but good job deconstructing and shitting on all fast-paced busy music. Listen to Gianasi, some of the "wanky flourish" samples of guitars are almost a second and half long. Is that long enough?

Now say that snare drills in IDM are annoying.

And metal is too loud.

And goddamn kids with their skateboards and their hippityhop!

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

I would have liked to hear this material resequenced in a way that allowed much more of the original source to shine through. Imagine (and this will really piss you off) this same kinda stuff but put together like Girl Talk did it. So big chunks of old VHS sounds put together and allowed to breathe more. I mean, I know it's not fair to ding the album for what it is NOT, but still. It's an entire album of 16th notes—I dunno how you guys can possibly make it through in one sitting.

Well, yeah, but that's, like... slower, softer, not as immediately fun and completely a different genre? I quite like the way Gatekeeper sample, though. And it's exactly the "big chunk" process you describe. Actually, REAAAAAAALLLY big chunks sometimes (Optimus Maximus comes to mind ).

I dunno, I'm going to stop being a dick now, it seems that we've had contrarian standpoints on almost every subject ever, ascdi, and from now on I'm going to assume it's just the generation gap.

I'm 22, you're like 30 something right? Worlds apart. Who knows, maybe in like 10 years I'll agree with you, lords knows I've had the "oh no I'm becoming my dad" epiphany plenty of times before. Good will to you sir, and respect.

i'm in almost total agreement with ascdi, and as a 23-year-old, age doesn't really have anything to do with it. cut-up vs. glitch = splitting hairs methinks.

Yeah, I mean, agreed on the subjectivity. I'm not saying that this album is bad, I'd probably get to like it more if I kept at listening to it.

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:26 AM, Lube Saibot said:

OK, i understand you point of view, but you seem to equate "glitch" with "cut-up", and while you might discard the differences as "bah semantics", for me "cut-up" conjures up sound collage, musique concrete, hip hop, scratch DJs, french touch, vsnares, etc, while "glitch" conjures up max/msp, microhouse, generative granular rhythmic noise squawks, Raster Noton, Ganz Graf, and sound libraries from Native Instruments with "k"s in their name filled with metallic and sci-fi clicks and bloops and shit. I guess I'm personally a bit less bored of the former rather than the latter.

I agree that the sound palette on this album doesn't remind me of the 'glitch' genre or era or whatever that was, definitely. It's more the construction that reminds me of that kinda stuff.

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:26 AM, Lube Saibot said:

Well, ok, point taken, and a pet peeve is a pet peeve, but good job deconstructing and shitting on all fast-paced busy music. Listen to Gianasi, some of the "wanky flourish" samples of guitars are almost a second and half long. Is that long enough?

I just mean that a mixture of sounds is good. Actually, I think some of the songs on Drukqs are good examples of what I mean. 'Taking Control' for example has a lot of moments where it gets real close to the sound of "a ton of stuff in a blender retriggering in ReCycle" but there are still other elements of the track ringing out or propelling it along. I just think that tends to give tracks more of a grooving, rolling quality.

Actually, it's funny you mention Vsnares up above—I think that when Vsnares is real good his tracks get super intense but keep "rolling" along like old school jungle, and when he's bad the tracks are choppy and I don't feel like they flow very well… it just sounds like a bunch of switches flipping on and off and not MUSIC. I think the closer you chop and resequence everything, the harder it is to keep a sense of flowing musicality to the tracks. Old jungle kinda rolls lots of times because there are just a few cuts or retriggers of the break per bar. Just a random thought.

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:26 AM, Lube Saibot said:

I'm 22, you're like 30 something right? Worlds apart. Who knows, maybe in like 10 years I'll agree with you, lords knows I've had the "oh no I'm becoming my dad" epiphany plenty of times before. Good will to you sir, and respect.

Egads, I'm only 29! But yeah, I'm definitely becoming a dad. Not as much of an appetite for musical sensory overload these days.

My final reply is that this is my favorite track from hudmo out of his entire discog, to give you and idea of my proclivities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2CVS_b7-Mc

so i guess i really really like the start-stop choppy feel

lol glitch

btw, Lube Saibot and i are for once on exactly the same wavelength

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

There's a lot of small-scale detail but I don't find myself latching on to any large-scale structure at all.

Listen to "Sunset Everett." It has a pretty straightforward pop song structure -- ABABCBA or something like that. A main melody, a second bit, a different bridge part, and then a return to the main melody. I agree that some of their tracks seem to just shift about randomly (and I myself don't really mind that), but repeated listens to some of their tracks should convince you there is significant 'large-scale' structure in there.

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:05 PM, encey said:

repeated listens to some of their tracks should convince you there is significant 'large-scale' structure in there.

This is exactly it, and exactly the appeal of VHS Head to me. I think I've mentioned before how when I first listened to Video Club that I couldn't even make it through the samples on Boomkat, but something later on played on my mind and I gave the samples another go. I then thought, OK I'll give it a cheeky download - listened to that a couple of times then bought it. So it took me about 5 goes before I got even the little 20 minute EP - this album took me about twice that before I really started appreciating the sheer detail and depth of it all.

So yeah, it's an album that does require significant effort but definitely rewards. And as for the age thing earlier, in a few months I'll be 29 so I don't think it's an album exclusively for the early 20s demographic at all....

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:05 PM, encey said:

  On 1/10/2011 at 3:24 AM, Ascdi said:

There's a lot of small-scale detail but I don't find myself latching on to any large-scale structure at all.

Listen to "Sunset Everett." It has a pretty straightforward pop song structure -- ABABCBA or something like that. A main melody, a second bit, a different bridge part, and then a return to the main melody. I agree that some of their tracks seem to just shift about randomly (and I myself don't really mind that), but repeated listens to some of their tracks should convince you there is significant 'large-scale' structure in there.

Totally agree, that's the standout track on the album in my opinion. At least in terms of songishness

still can't get into the 2nd half of this except for 'The Violent Breed'

everything up until and including 'Motions' is superb

How 'bout Remote Control ? For me that's my highlight of the album - Takes me back to my C64 days.

Yeah, in the beginning, my brain used to call it a day after about half of the album. Probably due to the sheer amount of different stuff on the whole thing. But there are many great bits there to be found as well. The album kinda comes to a slow end with the last three and a half tracks, as opposed to ending with a big Ziggomatic kind of track, but that just makes me want to re-play it more. The overall composition/order of tracks is pretty much perfect anyway.

The Wire review certainly doesn't put the whole BoC/VHS Head myth to bed either.

so why was this mastered so shit

always a nice surprise when a vhs head track comes on random and im running at speed to turn the receiver down

  On 1/10/2011 at 11:09 PM, elusive4 said:

so why was this mastered so shit

 

always a nice surprise when a vhs head track comes on random and im running at speed to turn the receiver down

sounds fine on vinyl

I wish this album wasn't so cut up.

Surely that BoC bollocks isn't persisting? It's like the Sandisons are the only musicians entitled to be nostalgic about the 80s. And anyway, I imagine osc can debunk that stupid rumour.

I know, the constant BoC speculation thing is balls (especially as it's even properly credited on the album who it is). Just to add a spanner to the rumour mill though, do you think Adrian Blacow was in anyway involved in Gescom's latest EP - only reason being I had a playlist on my phone going from Trademark Ribbons straight into A1-D1 and I'd never noticed how similar sounding they are, especially something like B1 which is full of crazy cut ups and film samples. I know Gescom is a bit of a free-for-all Skam love in so was am just speculating....

Probably not though

You never know, it's a lot more plausible than the BoC nonsense. Mainly because it's based on someone using their ears (i.e. you Pete) instead of fanboi conspiracy theorists jumping to ridiculous '80s samples + Skam = BoC' conclusions. I can certainly see where you're coming from with the B1 similarities.

  On 1/11/2011 at 12:40 PM, Caretstik said:

Surely that BoC bollocks isn't persisting? It's like the Sandisons are the only musicians entitled to be nostalgic about the 80s. And anyway, I imagine osc can debunk that stupid rumour.

i can attest, on my entire record collection, that VHS Head is nothing to do with BoC.

  On 1/11/2011 at 1:18 PM, mcbpete said:

I know, the constant BoC speculation thing is balls (especially as it's even properly credited on the album who it is). Just to add a spanner to the rumour mill though, do you think Adrian Blacow was in anyway involved in Gescom's latest EP - only reason being I had a playlist on my phone going from Trademark Ribbons straight into A1-D1 and I'd never noticed how similar sounding they are, especially something like B1 which is full of crazy cut ups and film samples. I know Gescom is a bit of a free-for-all Skam love in so was am just speculating....

 

Probably not though

heh nah, Ade wasn't involved with A1-B1 / C1-D1

edit: Ade wasn't signed to Skam that early

I never got why people thought it was BoC in the first place. All the 80s nostalgia shit doesnt take away from the fact that VHS doesnt sound anything like Boards.

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:13 PM, mcbpete said:

So yeah, it's an album that does require significant effort but definitely rewards.

Haven't folks been listening to shit like Druqks and Confield since 2001? Those of you think this album is any way shape or form challenging have gone soft and need some intense IDM therapy only the late 90's/early 2000's can provide.

  On 1/11/2011 at 4:30 PM, chassis said:

I never got why people thought it was BoC in the first place. All the 80s nostalgia shit doesnt take away from the fact that VHS doesnt sound anything like Boards.

from my personal view, i can see the similarity with BoC in so far as the approach to drum programming, and in particular the use of vocal samples as a percussive element.

i had been thinking about this for a while, especially as i was one of the people that thought the rumour might've had some credit. sirch was right all along!

  On 1/11/2011 at 5:57 PM, The Face Culler said:

Haven't folks been listening to shit like Druqks and Confield since 2001?

Well yes I have, but I'd say the tracks on this album are equally as densely packed as that of your two mentioned albums. The approach and production maybe vastly different (I'd say Ae and AFX on those two albums deal a lot with the context of sound in space, and the VHS album is more the content of sound in time - or some bollocks like that !) but to say Confield and Drukqs is 'superior' to this I disagree with.

I dunno, one's only been out a few months and the other two for a decade so I think it's difficult to ascertain the longevity of this album this soon.

  On 1/11/2011 at 5:57 PM, The Face Culler said:

  On 1/10/2011 at 4:13 PM, mcbpete said:

So yeah, it's an album that does require significant effort but definitely rewards.

 

Haven't folks been listening to shit like Druqks since 2001?

lol that album in particular, definitely not