sellouts, or, the 1980s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_nwbTeIN4Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqlauwX_ums

  On 8/4/2010 at 11:58 PM, futureimage said:

  On 8/4/2010 at 4:15 PM, Joy Rex said:

  On 8/4/2010 at 2:53 PM, futureimage said:

  On 8/4/2010 at 1:16 PM, the anonymous forumite said:

Yet an excellent 80s pop song, specially when you watch the Breakfast Club.

Yeah, it is a very good pop song, but it's just a shame they sold out so bad :(

In what way did Simple Minds "sell out" with Don't You Forget About Me"? If anything, that song was an instant classic (only further cemented by the Breakfast Club's instant place as one of the 80's defining movies), and was arguably the pinnacle of Simple Minds' musical career.

Have you heard Sons & Fascination? As in the whole album, not just that one track? That album, Sister Feeling Call and Empires & Dance are MILES ahead of Don't You Forget About Me in terms of innovation and timelessness. I like Don't You... but it's a slab of stinking cheese. Their early 80s stuff was "cerebral" and generally just brilliant.

You, sir, know your music.

And I say that as a huge Simple Minds fan who only got into them in their One Upon a Time phase and have seen tham about 10 times in concert since. So only started exploring their earlier stuff after the event, and sorry I missed it. Sadly its been a case of seriously diminishing returns since they found that stadium anthemic rock = big moneyv and ditched the exciting, edgy electro dance tracks that marked their formative years. Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call remains my favourite album ever. They had the odd great moment afterwards, like Kick It In, but Theme For Great Cities is them at their prime alright. I would also include bits of New Gold Dream, like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMs51qaO9M

Yeah, New Gold Dream is definitely a good album too, but you can hear the commercial spirit kicking in. The Herbie Hancock solo in Hunter & The Hunted is pretty hard to beat though.

  On 8/5/2010 at 2:56 PM, futureimage said:

Yeah, New Gold Dream is definitely a good album too, but you can hear the commercial spirit kicking in. The Herbie Hancock solo in Hunter & The Hunted is pretty hard to beat though.

I think once Mick McNeill started to get a bit sidelined they started to lose their way. Their best output was underpinned by his keyboard work, imho. Even when they started to get that commercial spirit it was still good, like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVkGn6VDIrg

  On 8/5/2010 at 7:11 AM, glasse said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORDsCf2P6yo

Fuck you. Nothing can stop Mannequin. Nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knav2FUJQgE

  On 8/4/2010 at 11:58 PM, futureimage said:

  On 8/4/2010 at 4:15 PM, Joy Rex said:

  On 8/4/2010 at 2:53 PM, futureimage said:

  On 8/4/2010 at 1:16 PM, the anonymous forumite said:

Yet an excellent 80s pop song, specially when you watch the Breakfast Club.

Yeah, it is a very good pop song, but it's just a shame they sold out so bad :(

In what way did Simple Minds "sell out" with Don't You Forget About Me"? If anything, that song was an instant classic (only further cemented by the Breakfast Club's instant place as one of the 80's defining movies), and was arguably the pinnacle of Simple Minds' musical career.

Have you heard Sons & Fascination? As in the whole album, not just that one track? That album, Sister Feeling Call and Empires & Dance are MILES ahead of Don't You Forget About Me in terms of innovation and timelessness. I like Don't You... but it's a slab of stinking cheese. Their early 80s stuff was "cerebral" and generally just brilliant.

 

P.S. Phil Collins should have never decided to replace the drums for the microphone. He's an awesome drummer, but I can't stand him singing.

I happen to have all the Simple Minds releases - "Don't You..." is by far not my favourite song of theirs, but I'm getting the feeling you're thinking commercial success = sellout, which in this case it does not, IMO.

But don't you think it was such a departure from the music they made in SAF/SFC, New Gold Dream and even Sparkle in the Rain that they clearly had their mind on 'cracking the US market'? For starters, it was the first track they released that they did not write, afair. And they followed it up with a lot of air punching anthems.

Now again I should state that I have had a love affair with Simple Minds for 25 years now, just about any pic of me as a teenager shows me with a SM bandana or teeshirt, or Jim Kerr's head looming from some jersey, and because the parents weren't exactly loaded I had to do a lot of trawling through second hand shops or waiting for the birthday or Christmas to come around, but was just obsessed by them. Right up to Real Life, by which time I was getting into electronic and house music anyway. But I would be just more cynical about all their post DYFAM work. A lot of it just seemed so overblown and pompous.

  On 8/4/2010 at 9:51 PM, nene multiple assgasms said:

I'm surprised no one's mentioned bowie yet.

Let's not confuse lack of inspiration with sellin out.

  On 8/5/2010 at 4:01 PM, Joy Rex said:

I'm getting the feeling you're thinking commercial success = sellout, which in this case it does not, IMO.

fact.

  On 8/5/2010 at 5:52 PM, Conor74 said:

But don't you think it was such a departure from the music they made in SAF/SFC, New Gold Dream and even Sparkle in the Rain that they clearly had their mind on 'cracking the US market'? For starters, it was the first track they released that they did not write, afair. And they followed it up with a lot of air punching anthems.

 

Now again I should state that I have had a love affair with Simple Minds for 25 years now, just about any pic of me as a teenager shows me with a SM bandana or teeshirt, or Jim Kerr's head looming from some jersey, and because the parents weren't exactly loaded I had to do a lot of trawling through second hand shops or waiting for the birthday or Christmas to come around, but was just obsessed by them. Right up to Real Life, by which time I was getting into electronic and house music anyway. But I would be just more cynical about all their post DYFAM work. A lot of it just seemed so overblown and pompous.

Again, a song becoming more commercially viable does not mean the band is "selling out" - and honestly, I wouldn't call it a departure, more like an evolution of their sound. The quality was (and is) still there in their music post DYFAM, and the fact they were more successful is proof-positive of that.

Haha. Gotta admit, I was a fan of Starship. But then again I was between 9 and 11 when their first two albums were popular, so I think it's forgivable.

  On 8/5/2010 at 8:28 PM, Joy Rex said:

  On 8/5/2010 at 5:52 PM, Conor74 said:

But don't you think it was such a departure from the music they made in SAF/SFC, New Gold Dream and even Sparkle in the Rain that they clearly had their mind on 'cracking the US market'? For starters, it was the first track they released that they did not write, afair. And they followed it up with a lot of air punching anthems.

 

Now again I should state that I have had a love affair with Simple Minds for 25 years now, just about any pic of me as a teenager shows me with a SM bandana or teeshirt, or Jim Kerr's head looming from some jersey, and because the parents weren't exactly loaded I had to do a lot of trawling through second hand shops or waiting for the birthday or Christmas to come around, but was just obsessed by them. Right up to Real Life, by which time I was getting into electronic and house music anyway. But I would be just more cynical about all their post DYFAM work. A lot of it just seemed so overblown and pompous.

 

Again, a song becoming more commercially viable does not mean the band is "selling out" - and honestly, I wouldn't call it a departure, more like an evolution of their sound. The quality was (and is) still there in their music post DYFAM, and the fact they were more successful is proof-positive of that.

what was that one song on "once upon a time"? the video had the black lady singing back up and everyone in the band multiplied with every line of the song... i used to love singing that song when i was a teen... to the ladies!

  On 8/5/2010 at 12:33 AM, kaini said:

also phil collins invented the gated snare, quintessential sound of the 80s along with the orch5 stab.

Not to forget the DX7's famous 'E. Piano 1'.

  On 8/5/2010 at 4:01 PM, Joy Rex said:

I happen to have all the Simple Minds releases - "Don't You..." is by far not my favourite song of theirs, but I'm getting the feeling you're thinking commercial success = sellout, which in this case it does not, IMO.

Cool, that's good. I don't necessarily link commercial success to sellout, there's a lot of commercially successful albums from the 80s that do a lot for me (Human League's "Dare" and Japan's "Tin Drum" being two good examples) but I just think Simple Minds really lost the roots that they came from in their later work. In the Sons & Fascination era stuff you can really hear their krautrock influences merging with funk and art-rock, I hear none of that in "Don't You...". It's a good song, and I like it, but there's loads of other pop songs like it. I can't think of any bands that have produced material that comes anywhere close to "Love Song" or "70 Cities".

  On 8/5/2010 at 9:33 PM, asymmetrical head said:

what was that one song on "once upon a time"? the video had the black lady singing back up and everyone in the band multiplied with every line of the song... i used to love singing that song when i was a teen... to the ladies!

She was Robin Clark, ex Chic, and she appeared on a lot of the videos at the time, and backed Kerrs vocals in a lot of their songs that got heavy rotation on MTV, but guess you're probably thinking of Alive and Kicking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljIQo1OHkTI&feature=channel

  On 8/5/2010 at 11:42 PM, futureimage said:

  On 8/5/2010 at 4:01 PM, Joy Rex said:

I happen to have all the Simple Minds releases - "Don't You..." is by far not my favourite song of theirs, but I'm getting the feeling you're thinking commercial success = sellout, which in this case it does not, IMO.

Cool, that's good. I don't necessarily link commercial success to sellout, there's a lot of commercially successful albums from the 80s that do a lot for me (Human League's "Dare" and Japan's "Tin Drum" being two good examples) but I just think Simple Minds really lost the roots that they came from in their later work. In the Sons & Fascination era stuff you can really hear their krautrock influences merging with funk and art-rock, I hear none of that in "Don't You...". It's a good song, and I like it, but there's loads of other pop songs like it. I can't think of any bands that have produced material that comes anywhere close to "Love Song" or "70 Cities".

OK, yes - I totally see where you're coming from now, and yes, you are right - their sound DID change, and "Don't You..." is much more "80's pop" than their earlier work (good call on the krautrock, btw).

  On 8/6/2010 at 1:24 PM, Conor74 said:

  On 8/5/2010 at 9:33 PM, asymmetrical head said:

what was that one song on "once upon a time"? the video had the black lady singing back up and everyone in the band multiplied with every line of the song... i used to love singing that song when i was a teen... to the ladies!

 

She was Robin Clark, ex Chic, and she appeared on a lot of the videos at the time, and backed Kerrs vocals in a lot of their songs that got heavy rotation on MTV, but guess you're probably thinking of Alive and Kicking.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljIQo1OHkTI&feature=channel

it wasn't alive and kicking... i think it was the follow up single. a little more upbeat than A&K.

  On 8/6/2010 at 6:19 PM, asymmetrical head said:

it wasn't alive and kicking... i think it was the follow up single. a little more upbeat than A&K.

'All The Things She Said'...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hKgHPd--Fo

  On 8/6/2010 at 9:28 PM, Caretstik said:

  On 8/6/2010 at 6:19 PM, asymmetrical head said:

it wasn't alive and kicking... i think it was the follow up single. a little more upbeat than A&K.

'All The Things She Said'...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hKgHPd--Fo

that's it! that's the one! i sang it to ladies back in the day!

I might try that and see if it still works today, you never know...

  On 8/6/2010 at 9:28 PM, Caretstik said:

  On 8/6/2010 at 6:19 PM, asymmetrical head said:

it wasn't alive and kicking... i think it was the follow up single. a little more upbeat than A&K.

'All The Things She Said'...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hKgHPd--Fo

One of their better efforts on OUAT.

Though think Ghostdancing is their best of that era.

Probably a needless bump, but I've been backtracking with the early Simple Minds albums lately, and I never really realised how great they were before, quite apart from the tracks I mentioned earlier in this thread. Those first five albums (if you count SAF/SFC as two) stand up pretty well, and there are lots of things going on within the records. There influences are pretty clear (especially in hindsight), but it's obvious that they were bursting with ideas and inspiration then (five albums over three years) and it's how that comes across that makes these records exciting, for me at least. Or maybe I'm just old and nostalgic. I don't think they necessarily sold out as such (I get the impression these days, where their profile doesn't seem as high as it used to be, that they genuinely make records sheerly for the love of it), but I also think a part of their development into stadium giants came from losing their more experimental side.