I know this is lame but

+1 renoise

once you get passed the initial visual shock of it, it starts exploding with sense and you'll get hooked. i still learn stuff just from random posts in the renoise forums, it's a really knowledgeable/helpful group over there.

cool thanks, I will definitely check out reason!!

okay wait.. so Reason to make beats and stuff and then Live to export it? I don't quite follow with all this lingo lol

  On 11/10/2010 at 2:54 AM, acid1 said:

  On 11/10/2010 at 1:43 AM, ryanmcallister said:

  On 11/9/2010 at 8:32 PM, acid1 said:

Ableton Live if you want to eventually play your songs live, but don't mind retarded level midi capabilities.

Just curious, why do you think Live has retarded level midi capabilities? I hear this quite a bit, and i'd like to know what you can do in other DAWS that you can do in Live's midi editor? I understand things like FL Studio having handy tricks which is great but really if you can duplicate those by hand in other editors than you are probably too lazy to make anything decent. If anything I'd probably say audio editing is where Live is maybe below average, but for midi once you get used to the keyboard shortcuts and stuff it works great.

 

You could make any song by combining enough sine waves together... doing so would probably be retarded tho.

that's hardly a comparison though. ableton live has a fully capable midi editor i am genuinely curious to know what specifically you can do in something else that you can't do in it, and if you think those differences are worth writing it off completely as a daw choice? totally don't mean to start a pointless flame war about which is better just i've been around the block with daws and i just don't get the hate for ableton.

  On 11/10/2010 at 4:18 AM, halisray said:

okay wait.. so Reason to make beats and stuff and then Live to export it? I don't quite follow with all this lingo lol

what they mean is a lot of people use combinations of software, each one has strengths and weaknesses. for example you could use reason to make a drum loop with the instruments and effects that come with reason, but if you wanted to go on the internet and download new effects to put on that drum loop you'd have to load it up in ableton live to put those effects on it. reason is great but it does not play well with others. ableton does but is not as intuitive and fun at first. but no, you do not need anything other than reason to make a complete track from start to finish.

  On 11/10/2010 at 4:18 AM, halisray said:

okay wait.. so Reason to make beats and stuff and then Live to export it? I don't quite follow with all this lingo lol

Oh, no, you can make the track in Reason, melodies, beats, effects, everything. It's limited to its built in instruments and samplers - although they should be enough for a beginner. The only reason I mentioned Live was because if you export all of your MIDI and audio from Reason and import it into Live you can jam with the track, which makes the structure more flexible (as opposed to laying it all out in Reason). It's a fun way to work with it. But I'd probably stick with Reason on its own to start with if you're using that (although FL is as good a place as any to start, to be fair. I made my first album in FL3 and that's all layered ambience and field recordings which has nothing in common with the common negative criticisms of the package)

awesome! I just got Reason; will be installing tonight. I am really into ambient and drone music, minimal techno and a bit of acid and other electronic music.

No idea how I will go about making beats and such, but I guess I'll just jump right into it. Are there any good websites that offer help or just electronic music websites for musicians? So I can get to know the lingo a bit more and such; I literally know nothing.. hell I had to wikipedia MIDI to know what it was..

I know NOTHING.

  On 11/10/2010 at 5:36 AM, ryanmcallister said:

  On 11/10/2010 at 2:54 AM, acid1 said:

  On 11/10/2010 at 1:43 AM, ryanmcallister said:

  On 11/9/2010 at 8:32 PM, acid1 said:

Ableton Live if you want to eventually play your songs live, but don't mind retarded level midi capabilities.

Just curious, why do you think Live has retarded level midi capabilities? I hear this quite a bit, and i'd like to know what you can do in other DAWS that you can do in Live's midi editor? I understand things like FL Studio having handy tricks which is great but really if you can duplicate those by hand in other editors than you are probably too lazy to make anything decent. If anything I'd probably say audio editing is where Live is maybe below average, but for midi once you get used to the keyboard shortcuts and stuff it works great.

 

You could make any song by combining enough sine waves together... doing so would probably be retarded tho.

that's hardly a comparison though. ableton live has a fully capable midi editor i am genuinely curious to know what specifically you can do in something else that you can't do in it, and if you think those differences are worth writing it off completely as a daw choice? totally don't mean to start a pointless flame war about which is better just i've been around the block with daws and i just don't get the hate for ableton.

Fair enough... then I hope you detected some sarcasm in the original post. Half of the software I was poking fun at was things I use myself. I have a handful of buddies in RL that make tunes but come from a Logic/Cubase type background, and some of the things they always complain about while working with MIDI in Ableton is being able to edit multiple midi tracks at once (some software even allows overlays), scale/chord detection(i'm aware you can force scales, but logic for instance will let you know when you play chords what you are in), and being able to shrink/expand a midi clips to different sizes. One of my buddies simply hates the fact that he can't pull up a full screen midi editor unless he's constantly dragging the window from the bottom to the top and back again repetitively. Beyond that, apps like Logic have absolutely crazy midi tools that I'd never use but they seem to like the ability to rotate/reverse midi clips (obviously we are talking about order), individually enter text values for every midi/sysex note, octive doubling (yes I'm aware you can command-drag a set of notes to duplicate it and then drag around in Ableton), etc from a context menu. To be honest I find some of this stuff overkill and I've been able to get around it, but from people who came from classic midi editors, I'm sure they wouldn't think to reach for a velocity midi fx device so they can scale all thier midi notes and then hopefully adapt from there to work with the restrained conditions set up by the device.

Ableton does however has some tricks up its own sleeves that classic DAWs do not however, like generative synthesis capabilities with the midi fx.

I really like ambient music.. so I can make ambient music with Reason 5 correct? This software just isn't for making beats right?

  On 11/9/2010 at 6:49 PM, Retape said:

the answer to everything in life is ableton live.

  On 11/10/2010 at 6:28 PM, halisray said:

I really like ambient music.. so I can make ambient music with Reason 5 correct? This software just isn't for making beats right?

dude, don't you read? people have already said what you can/can't do within Reason. look back.

You can do anything you like in any software, it's just knowing how.

Some are easier than others, of course.

  On 11/10/2010 at 6:28 PM, halisray said:

I really like ambient music.. so I can make ambient music with Reason 5 correct? This software just isn't for making beats right?

you can make ambient music with a saucepan and a tape recorder so you should be ok with reason

Alrighty, so I installed Reason.. hit one of those kong drums and no sound happened.. like my sound isn't working.. and I checked the mute button and everything.. I even tried playing the song that comes with it and nothing happened

thoughts?

nevermind, got it working.. holy fuck this shit looks complicated as tits

After starting out with Fruityloops and then using Logic, Reason scared the shit out of me at first. Turns out it's really, really, really, really, really easy.

  On 11/11/2010 at 12:42 AM, purlieu said:

After starting out with Fruityloops and then using Logic, Reason scared the shit out of me at first. Turns out it's really, really, really, really, really easy.

you think reason is easier than logic?

i opened logic back when it was still pc and it was a total wtf moment

  On 11/11/2010 at 12:33 AM, halisray said:

nevermind, got it working.. holy fuck this shit looks complicated as tits

prepare for an uphill battle my friend, but hang in there, it's very rewarding.

Reason is really, really intimidating at first. I'll admit I'm too lazy to actually take the couple hours it'll take to get used to it. But if ya wanna use it, go for it... or download another DAW until you find one you like.

reason is a piece of piss to use...

  On 11/11/2010 at 2:30 AM, yek said:

  On 11/11/2010 at 12:42 AM, purlieu said:

After starting out with Fruityloops and then using Logic, Reason scared the shit out of me at first. Turns out it's really, really, really, really, really easy.

you think reason is easier than logic?

 

 

i opened logic back when it was still pc and it was a total wtf moment

I can't accurately discuss the difficulty of Logic, as I had a copy of MicroLogic (just the MIDI sequencer) with a magazine cover disc years ago, so became familiar with the environment, then got taught the rest at college. It's the only software I've not had to figure out myself so it's always seemed like a piece of piss to me. It might be, it might be hideous and difficult. I dunno!

Pros

• Ableton Live - awesome live capabilities, tons of native effects, racks (crazy effect chain combos), awesome beat warping
  
• FL Studio - do anything pretty much any way you want, clever sequencer, great visual feedback, shittons of native effects/instruments
  
• Reason - self-contained, reliable, intuitive hardware-style routing, powerful and awesome sounding native instruments/effects/samples
  
• Renoise - tracker paradigm, super fast/powerful with shortcuts/pattern commands, reliable
  

Cons

• Ableton Live - no automation curves, have to stare at blank rectangles in your mixer when not using session view to compose
  
• FL Studio - overwhelming, weird mixer, Windows-only
  
• Reason - lame-ass sequencer, no VSTs, (no automation curves?)
  
• Renoise - steeper learning curve, no automation curves
  

  On 11/13/2010 at 7:42 PM, wahrk said:

[*]Ableton Live - no automation curves, have to stare at blank rectangles in your mixer when not using session view to compose

no?

  On 11/13/2010 at 11:42 PM, sneaksta303 said:

  On 11/13/2010 at 7:42 PM, wahrk said:

[*]Ableton Live - no automation curves, have to stare at blank rectangles in your mixer when not using session view to compose

 

no?

It doesn't have automation curves does it? Bézier? Parabolic? It's all linear. That's ridiculous. Same goes for Renoise. What the fuck, devs?

I don't really care about the session view thing. It just tempts me to use it, which leads to disappointment later.

make your own curves yo.

but really i know visually it's not a perfect curve but anybody who claims to hear a curve made in ableton vs a curve made else where is full o' shit.

funny thing is, nobody round here ever really talks about cubase?

i love ableton to death for composition of electronic music and all that, but if you want a solid DAW for recording live instruments off the floor i find cubase to be stellar. i sold my copy of logic because i couldn't get away from cubase, sure it's instruments and effects aren't as good as logic's but if you are using your own plugins i actually prefer it.

but ya, ableton live for the win if you are making electronic music though.