Tory HQ stormed

  On 11/11/2010 at 1:46 PM, Bread said:

Hold on - surely if you're earning under £15k you are entitled to a grant of approx £800-900 every year, which does cover most course fees per year anyway??

I did look into it last year and for whatever reason they basically said I wasn't covered. I don't mind too much really. It's what I wanna do so I'm happy to pay for it out of my own pocket. It's near enough 2K a year for me atm.

  On 11/11/2010 at 5:21 PM, oscillik said:

again, missing the point

Please explain this time.

Thanks

  On 11/11/2010 at 8:06 PM, spratters said:

  On 11/11/2010 at 5:21 PM, oscillik said:

again, missing the point

 

Please explain this time.

 

Thanks

this explains part of it, pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDEZ2h41t0I

  On 11/11/2010 at 6:35 PM, chenGOD said:

Increased loans means increased debt. You shouldn't have to be in debt when you come out of uni.

i've got over £20k in student debt from being at uni from 2005-2009. i'm 22 year old.

i have a degree in mathematics and a solid job. i don't regret a thing.

it's investing in yourself, fundamentally.

however, i think the major blame lays with the constant need for employers to demand people with degrees. i understand why they do it - they need some way of differentiating between the masses of applicants that they receive. however, i don't use any of the content of my degree in my job, it was purely a means to an end. if vocational qualifications were held in higher regard by society and companies, and degrees were left purely to the academics and not the masses, then we wouldn't have this problem.

i think a decent, cheaper, vocation-based alternative to university needs to be established.

edit: stewart lee just summed it up perfectly above.

Ok, thanks.

Lets get real. Unis and all that are just bullshit anyways. You don't need any of that crap. The whole lot should be done away with. Its basically just a big rights of passage for guys/girl to party and mainly fuck/jerk around. All this shit can be done from home over the internet. Want a degree then get it done over the internet with virtual tuition etc.

Why the hell do people need to go away to this or that University please don't tell me that ain't some elitist, trumpet blowing, badge wearing bullshit anyways no matter whether you're poor or wealthy.

Education is living in the past. And if the Tories were that smart then they'd just scrap Universities all together and make the shit all electronic and they'd save billions and poor that into green technologies!! Cameron is just desperado wannabee PM mofo with no ideas.

By the way I don't applore the violence at all ... that is dispicable.

I am on my last year of my course, and I'm quite happy to be pulling the ladder up. The youth can piss off.

  On 11/11/2010 at 8:14 PM, margaret thatcher said:

  On 11/11/2010 at 6:35 PM, chenGOD said:

Increased loans means increased debt. You shouldn't have to be in debt when you come out of uni.

 

i've got over £20k in student debt from being at uni from 2005-2009. i'm 22 year old.

 

i have a degree in mathematics and a solid job. i don't regret a thing.

it's investing in yourself, fundamentally.

 

however, i think the major blame lays with the constant need for employers to demand people with degrees. i understand why they do it - they need some way of differentiating between the masses of applicants that they receive. however, i don't use any of the content of my degree in my job, it was purely a means to an end. if vocational qualifications were held in higher regard by society and companies, and degrees were left purely to the academics and not the masses, then we wouldn't have this problem.

 

i think a decent, cheaper, vocation-based alternative to university needs to be established.

 

 

Wow, to think that you're only 22 years old with $35k in debt. Ridiculous that people should have to start off on their "adult" life saddled with that. You're also lucky compared to people in the states who come out of school with upwards of $80k in debt, which is where this inevitable leads. We have the same arguments here in Canada, where tuition is considerably lower, yet still inching upward. Post-secondary education should be affordable to all, without leaving them in scads of debt after they graduate.

I agree with your statements about people treating university like vocational school. There needs to be more people in the trades. The only problem of course is that too much of the "middle class" views the trades as beneath them (never mind that they got there via jobs in trades and manufacturing - and ignoring the screams of "foreigners are taking our jobs" when immigrants actually do the work). No no, they all have to be consultants or policy wonks or in HR. That's what happens in a "post-service industry" economic environment.

edit: Promo, "dispicable" I can work out, but what one earth do you mean by "applore"? Applaud? Implore? Approve?

apple lord typo

  On 11/10/2010 at 9:29 PM, chenGOD said:

Whilst the protests are legitimate, the violence is asinine.

Without the violence this wouldnt have troubled the local news, with and its global news. Sad but true. Im probably slightly jealous that i'll never get to trash Millbank

Train strikes, firemen striking, BBC strikes and students kicking up a bit of class war round Westminster, not a bad job from the moderate right =)

  On 11/13/2010 at 2:51 AM, Dirty Protest said:

  On 11/10/2010 at 9:29 PM, chenGOD said:

Whilst the protests are legitimate, the violence is asinine.

Without the violence this wouldnt have troubled the local news, with and its global news. Sad but true. Im probably slightly jealous that i'll never get to trash Millbank

Train strikes, firemen striking, BBC strikes and students kicking up a bit of class war round Westminster, not a bad job from the moderate right =)

I would agree that the Tories have hang ups about class but so do a lot of middle class, working class and students too. Me personally I hand on heart couldn't give a crap about whether or not someone thinks they're better than me based on money, who they know or where they live. I honestly don't even register it emotionally or even think about it. I honestly treat everyone the same. I'm just interested in people's character and that it is. I do think once people mature enough then more than likely they get beyond all that bullshit too. I think we all need to move on myself.

Thats that bothersome deficit sorted then.

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:23 AM, Dirty Protest said:

Thats that bothersome deficit sorted then.

They should scrap Unis altogether and then there would be no tuition fees! The costs are beyond stupid ... all those costs could be wiped away in an instant. The shit should be all on the internet, centralised and free anyways.

I personally don't care much whose in Government but I just think Cameron is just another retard with little or nothing fresh to offer.

Money should be spent on cleaning up shitty areas where anti social behaviour is out of control and moving on with green technologies. Also focus should be put on freeing up the tax system so we all have more spending power which will only be good for the economy.

IMO Unis are just one big ass white elephant.

Yeah. I only have a bachelor's degree and I'm nearly $80,000 dollars in debt. What sense does that make?

I'll be paying that off for the rest of my life.

Good for them... the kids smashing stuff, I mean.

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:33 AM, Promo said:

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:23 AM, Dirty Protest said:

Thats that bothersome deficit sorted then.

They should scrap Unis altogether and then there would be no tuition fees! The costs are beyond stupid ... all those costs could be wiped away in an instant. The shit should be all on the internet, centralised and free anyways.

 

I personally don't care much whose in Government but I just think Cameron is just another retard with little or nothing fresh to offer.

 

Money should be spent on cleaning up shitty areas where anti social behaviour is out of control and moving on with green technologies. Also focus should be put on freeing up the tax system so we all have more spending power which will only be good for the economy.

 

IMO Unis are just one big ass white elephant.

Your online learning idea wouldnt exist without like-minded clever people meeting at universities. Its difficult to know where to start in explaining how important they are to medicine, technology and social theory, so i'll let you google it.

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:33 AM, Promo said:

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:23 AM, Dirty Protest said:

Thats that bothersome deficit sorted then.

They should scrap Unis altogether and then there would be no tuition fees! The costs are beyond stupid ... all those costs could be wiped away in an instant. The shit should be all on the internet, centralised and free anyways.

 

I personally don't care much whose in Government but I just think Cameron is just another retard with little or nothing fresh to offer.

 

Money should be spent on cleaning up shitty areas where anti social behaviour is out of control and moving on with green technologies. Also focus should be put on freeing up the tax system so we all have more spending power which will only be good for the economy.

 

IMO Unis are just one big ass white elephant.

Do you even know what a white elephant is?

University might not be for you, but please, if you're going to attempt to promote an idea which completely does away with a well established system (that is not without its faults, to be sure), at least give some real arguments.

Also, correct grammar and spelling are important, they make people take you a little more seriously.

burn

  On 11/13/2010 at 2:51 AM, Dirty Protest said:

  On 11/10/2010 at 9:29 PM, chenGOD said:

Whilst the protests are legitimate, the violence is asinine.

Without the violence this wouldnt have troubled the local news, with and its global news. Sad but true. Im probably slightly jealous that i'll never get to trash Millbank

Train strikes, firemen striking, BBC strikes and students kicking up a bit of class war round Westminster, not a bad job from the moderate right =)

I must disagree on two counts. Violence is never justified, unless it is in self-defence. The students "kicking up a bit of class war" are a bunch of cowards who know they'll never have to face any consequences, and they do a disservice to students who have actually faced down serious threats to liberty.

  On 11/13/2010 at 4:22 AM, chenGOD said:

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:33 AM, Promo said:

  On 11/13/2010 at 3:23 AM, Dirty Protest said:

Thats that bothersome deficit sorted then.

They should scrap Unis altogether and then there would be no tuition fees! The costs are beyond stupid ... all those costs could be wiped away in an instant. The shit should be all on the internet, centralised and free anyways.

 

I personally don't care much whose in Government but I just think Cameron is just another retard with little or nothing fresh to offer.

 

Money should be spent on cleaning up shitty areas where anti social behaviour is out of control and moving on with green technologies. Also focus should be put on freeing up the tax system so we all have more spending power which will only be good for the economy.

 

IMO Unis are just one big ass white elephant.

 

Do you even know what a white elephant is?

 

University might not be for you, but please, if you're going to attempt to promote an idea which completely does away with a well established system (that is not without its faults, to be sure), at least give some real arguments.

Also, correct grammar and spelling are important, they make people take you a little more seriously.

I tell you what you keep the system as it is and you enjoy those rises in tuition fees eh!

Great answer. I particularly love how you answered all of my points in a coherent logical manner.

I don't know why I'm bothering but if you'd read the thread, you'd see that I already voiced the opinion that tuition fees should be going back to down.

scrap the majority of unis

keep the russell group and a few others

sell the lse to china

get rid of the marxist seditionist idiot subjects like sociology

no more research grants for climate change or other bullshit

no fees for proper degrees in real science and engineering

  On 11/13/2010 at 8:29 AM, chunky said:

get rid of the marxist seditionist idiot subjects like sociology

english cops are amateurs. No way this could have happened in france.

Also, i couldn't be arsed updating my "cops DISGUISED as demonstrators" thread, but here is what happened in france

Like two weeks ago, Le Monde and Le point, two newspapers, declared they had been broken into during the weekend. The laptops and gps of the journalists that were investigating the Bettencourt case disappeared. The following day, mediapart, the e-newspaper that disclosed the links between the power and the bettencourt family (biggest fortune in france), announced they suffered a similar break-in a few days before : everything was ok except stuffs that concerned the bettencourt case.

The next week, the "chained duck", a newspaper, directly accused Guéant (sarkozy's counsellor/shadowman) to have ordered these anti-press operations (they have a reliable source). Mediapart declared to have been tailed and GPS-localized by beards on numerous occasions. They also strenghtened the accusations against Guéant thrown by the 'duck'. Guéant sued mediapart.

And sarkozy, when asked about what he thought about the newspapers break-in, retorted "I don't see how that concerns me" instead of something along the lines of "I solemnly condemn etc…".

  On 11/13/2010 at 4:35 AM, chenGOD said:

  On 11/13/2010 at 2:51 AM, Dirty Protest said:

  On 11/10/2010 at 9:29 PM, chenGOD said:

Whilst the protests are legitimate, the violence is asinine.

Without the violence this wouldnt have troubled the local news, with and its global news. Sad but true. Im probably slightly jealous that i'll never get to trash Millbank

Train strikes, firemen striking, BBC strikes and students kicking up a bit of class war round Westminster, not a bad job from the moderate right =)

 

I must disagree on two counts. Violence is never justified, unless it is in self-defence. The students "kicking up a bit of class war" are a bunch of cowards who know they'll never have to face any consequences, and they do a disservice to students who have actually faced down serious threats to liberty.

Violence is always associated with physical violence.

A few months ago a newsman interviewed a syndicalist that were protesting against the relocalisation of his factory. Basically, the workers invaded the director's office, and broke stuffs inside.

newsman : I understand you're angry bu aren't you going too far ? Do you regret these violent acts ?

syndicalist: I hope you're joking. What are a few broken windows and computers in front of thousands of broken life etc

newsman: so the end justify the means ?

syndicalist: Non je ne regrette rien, they're explaining us that in one month we'll be on the streets Yeah, on the streets. We don't regret anything, you haven't seen breakers but angry, determined men, ... we don't want to die, we d'ont want to die. We shall persevere

newsman: we can hear your anger, but do you call for peace/nonviolence (~) tonight ?

syndicalist: nope

Something similar happened with another company called molex (that produces pieces for cars). Syndicalist finally obtained a social plan from molex, but this company didn't respect it. The government asked renault and citroen to stop buying pieces from molex.

  On 11/13/2010 at 8:29 AM, chunky said:

get rid of the marxist seditionist idiot subjects like sociology

I hope this was not a serious remark. Sociology is an important subject area [not as important as science, but I'd love to see sociology and science work together] as it allows us to reflect on society's progression and history - and where we may be leading to, how people become conditioned in a positive or negative sense by various institution etc.. It trys to adopts an objective view point on society which a lot of other subjects do not adopt.

  On 11/11/2010 at 8:06 PM, spratters said:

  On 11/11/2010 at 1:46 PM, Bread said:

Hold on - surely if you're earning under £15k you are entitled to a grant of approx £800-900 every year, which does cover most course fees per year anyway??

 

I did look into it last year and for whatever reason they basically said I wasn't covered. I don't mind too much really. It's what I wanna do so I'm happy to pay for it out of my own pocket. It's near enough 2K a year for me atm.

try again though - get them to acknowledge exactly why you're not entitled to the grants. They can only really base their decision on your salary. You're probably earning over their limit. Why pay from your own pocket when you may be entitled to take advantage of the financial support they offer?