Explain Lord of the Rings to me pls

  On 3/6/2011 at 1:29 AM, BCM said:

why didn't gandalf just fuck off? seriously gandalf - fuck off.

gandalf is the best. the entire three films should be about gandalf.

I am pretty interested in The Hobbit movies, especially now that it has been announced that elements of The Silmarilion will be referenced that link The Hobbit to LoTR. Probably mostly from Akallabêth and Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, focusing on Sauron and the rings but maybe not so much Morgoth, the Valar and the earlier parts that are less directly related.

Jackson kind of got himself in a pickle though, and it will be interesting to see how he deals with it:

Anyway, the other site I linked wasn't the one I was trying to find, but rather this. That site is really good and you can spend a lot of time dorking out on it.

Here is my best explanation of the background story behind LoTR. Major Silmarilion spoilers:

  On 3/23/2011 at 8:28 AM, glasse said:

I am pretty interested in The Hobbit movies, especially now that it has been announced that elements of The Silmarilion will be referenced that link The Hobbit to LoTR. Probably mostly from Akallabêth and Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, focusing on Sauron and the rings but maybe not so much Morgoth, the Valar and the earlier parts that are less directly related.

 

Jackson kind of got himself in a pickle though, and it will be interesting to see how he deals with it:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

His films take the position that Sauron is disembodied, showing him lose form when the ring is cut from his hand, and stating that he cannot yet regain form once he returns to Mordor but only exists as the red eye. The problem is that during the time of the Hobbit 'the Necromancer' that the wizards have to deal with, (which is revealed/retconned to be Sauron returned secretly) is said not only to have settled in Mirkwood, but also to have taken a form. The wizards think at first it might be a ringwraith, so it would seem perhaps he looked similar. The wizards find out it is Sauron and go confront him, but it just says they drive him out of Mirkwood and he flees to Mordor. It never says that they kill/disembody him again, (but for Jackson's continuity to work that is probably what will have to happen.) In the LoTR books it never says he is disembodied, and if the red eye is literal, it is probably a projection of Sauron's sorcery while he himself is in his tower, rather than the eye actually being Sauron himself.

 

 

Anyway, the other site I linked wasn't the one I was trying to find, but rather this. That site is really good and you can spend a lot of time dorking out on it.

 

Here is my best explanation of the background story behind LoTR. Major Silmarilion spoilers:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

At the very beginning of time there is Ilúvatar, who is the supreme father God of this universe. He creates beings called the Valar, which are kind of a cross between Archangels and the Norse gods or the gods of Mt. Olympus. Ilúvatar has them all sing this song which weaves together the creation of the world, but one of them sings in discord and drowns out the others, and this is Melkor, who is kind of like the Satan of this universe. The world is created and the Valar settle into it, and Melkor's involvement escalates from impish rebellion to becoming Morgoth, the first dark lord. In addition to the Valar there are also lesser spirits created called the Maiar, of which Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron all are in their original forms. Gandalf and Sauruman don't show up until much later, when they are sent by the Valar to take the form of wizards to protect Middle-Earth. Sauron however was involved since the very start when Melkor took him as his second in command.

 

The rest of the Valar live in Valinor, which is the West land that the elves are sailing back to in LoTR. The elves are created and they are half-way between being like humans and half like the Maiar, being immortal and having natural magic, but still physical/humanoid. Some live in Middle Earth and some live in the west, and in the beginning they could go back and forth between them. Morgoth creates things like orcs, balrogs, dragons, and there are wars with the Elves. Sauron is sort of a general here. At the end of the first age The Valar battle Morgoth and imprison him outside the world in an abyss, and while there is peace for a while eventually Sauron steps into Morgoth's shoes and takes over.

 

During this time men are also created. Most of them are seduced by Morgoth/Sauron, but a group of them are loyal to Valinor and the Elves so they are given this city of Númenor, and are gifted with long life. (Aragorn/Strider comes from this line and that is why he was like 90 in LoTR but looked 40 ish.) Sauron in the second age was able to take the form of a fair handsome person, and went first to the elves, and later to men and dwarves as Annatar, the bringer of gifts. He helps the elves to create the rings of power, and the elves also used his knowledge to make three rings just for them, but Sauron didn't know about them. Sauron then goes to Mt. Doom to make the one ring, which is connected to the other rings and would allow Sauron to control the wearers, however the elves are able to sense Sauron and take off the rings. Sauron drops the act and goes to war with the elves to get the rings, getting most of them except the three.

 

Then Sauron goes to instead seduce and corrupt men again. He gives nine rings to nine men, who at first become powerful kings and sorcerers, but then are corrupted by the ring and become wraiths bound to Sauron, the black riders in LotR. Then in Númenor Sauron deceives the king and most of the people into jealousy against the Valar and the Elves, and gets them to worship Morgoth. Then he gets them to sail to war against the Valar, but Ilúvatar intervenes and the Earth swallows up not only the ships with the men, but Númenor also including Sauron. Sauron is immortal though so his spirit goes back to Mordor but now he can no longer take a fair or handsome form to deceive with, but instead takes the form of the Dark Lord we see in the battle scenes in Fellowship.

 

Some of the men from Númenor did not sail against Valinor, and among these is Isildur who settles and establishes Gondor. Gondor flourishes and Sauron regathers his strength in Mordor. Then we have the war we see in the flashback scenes in Fellowship, where finally Isildur cuts the ring from his hand and Sauron vanishes. Isildur takes the ring instead of destroying it, but it betrays him and he is killed by orcs, and the ring rests at the bottom of the river. Then years and years go by until we have the events of the Hobbit, where Smeagol finds the ring and it corrupts him and turns him into Gollum. Then Bilbo finds the ring and at first Gandalf thinks it is a common magic ring, but later learns it is Sauron's ring.

 

So then you are in the LoTR. The Hobbits go from fleeing from the wraiths with the ring to going to Mordor to destroy the ring and kill Sauron once and for all. Saruman is corrupted by Sauron and becomes his servant and is the main antagonist of the first two parts. The Two Towers is about Rohan vs Isengard, and Return of the King is about Gondor vs Mordor, and both are about Frodo, Sam and Gollum traveling to Mordor intercut with battles involving the other members of the Fellowship. Finally Frodo and Sam get to Mordor, the ring is destroyed and so is Sauron. Aragorn is made king of Gondor and the line of kings is restored. Frodo and Bilbo go with Gandalf to the West because they can never fully be rid of the effects of the ring (or Frodo's wound.)

 

and

Why does the ring not effect Bilbo or Frodo the same as other people?

Because individualism is relatable.

Are elves like the master race?

Not really, more like the Native Americans, to be wiped out and cheated by the dawning of the Age of Man.

Why has man become so lowly?

Because the Age of Man had only just begun to dawn.

What was the deal with the white lady in the forest?

It was not a deal, it was a transaction, and she was so satisfied, she gave them gifts instead of making them pay.

Glasse, where did you hear he would be using parts of The Silmarilion? I was always under the impression not Jackson nor any movie studio owned the rights to that book, only the Hobbit and Lotr

the silmarillion is a sacred book

  On 3/27/2011 at 10:44 AM, Awepittance said:

Glasse, where did you hear he would be using parts of The Silmarilion? I was always under the impression not Jackson nor any movie studio owned the rights to that book, only the Hobbit and Lotr

Peter Jackson was talking about how they were going to expand The Hobbit by using information in LOTR that goes back to the timeframe of that book. When I listened to the clip the first time (from San Diego comic con 2009) I missed that he said from LOTR specifically, I thought he just said additional writings that expand the back story. So maybe they will strictly just use back story from LOTR, which could be cool on its own.

If you think about it though the last two books of The Silmarilion are about Sauron and are referenced heavily in LOTR to begin with. I think they could get away with more flashbacks of Sauron going to Númenor or making the rings with the elves as Annatar without actually having the rights to The Silmarilion. They can just appeal to the greater accepted Tolkein mythos or something.

there's got to be some bs copyright issues, but they do explain many silmarillion things pretty thoroughly in lotr

If you buried the Silmarillion and someone dug it up in a thousand years, they would probably base a religion around it.

  On 3/28/2011 at 4:32 PM, ezkerraldean said:

If you buried the Silmarillion and someone dug it up in a thousand years, they would probably base a religion around it.

If Tolkien had said he channeled his stories from some angels (elves) there would probably be a religion around it already.

.

  On 3/28/2011 at 4:32 PM, ezkerraldean said:

If you buried the Silmarillion and someone dug it up in a thousand years, they would probably base a religion around it.

  Quote

"With their whips of flame they smote asunder the webs of Ungoliant, and she quailed, and turned to fight, belching black vapours to cover her; and fleeing from the north she

went down into Beleriand, and dwelt beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, becuase of the horror she bred

there. For other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself

departed, and went whither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring abode there and wove their hideous webs. Of the fate of Ungoliant, no tale tells. Yet some

have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last." - Page 81

.

At 1:30 when they show all the detached massive houses, that road still looks exactly the same 45 years later, except they all sell for well above £1m now. 

Kinda cool I guess. 

At 23:45 he's walking along Deadman's Walk where the railings have a "pineapple" top finial on them at each post.  I did some repair work on those a few years back. 

https://goo.gl/maps/LfStN88ZKZA7eMsB9

Book 1: Tom Bombadil

Book 2: wizard stuff

Book 3: Mostly detailed ancestry of some of the characters in list form, otherwise not much happens.

The movies are pretty true to the books and did a really good job capturing the atmosphere of tolkein's writing and illustration, except they replaced all the good parts with CGI and completely ruined all of it (except the animatronic Gandalf is cool) so don't even bother.

EDIT: All jokes aside, I wasn't really a fan of the way the movies changed a sort of pseudo-mystical discipline into a technological macguffin.  The Weirding module is a cool sci-fi weapon and all but you'd think a director like Peter Jackson, with his interest in TM an stuff like that, would have been more interested in epanding on Tolkein's metaphysics.  Plus I feel like Wormtongue's casting ruins the immersion, maybe it's just me but I can't see him as anyone but Sting.

large birds refuse to give tiny hair feeted hobbits a ride to mtn for throwing away jewelry.. but will bring them back once they are there. there's a wizard.