getting "swing" on drums

some more insightful words about swing would be great...

Edited February 28, 2016 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

Just play the drums with your midi keyboard/pads (smoke or drink a bit single malt before you start tapping on plastic)

 

There you have swing (if swing equals human touch drums for you)

 

If you wanna "swing" defined by its origin, then read a bit wikipedia or move the shuffle slider on your daw/drummachine/gameboy rightwards.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_(jazz_performance_style)

Edited February 28, 2016 by Test Fforet

done it both, still confused... thanks!

 

how does one build an entire song, how does one compose some melodies after a swing beat, i mean, if i do the beat off grid, then it's a mess to try and write the melodies over it right? melodies off grid too?

 

i'm not too much of a player, i can't play neither beast or melodies, i usually draw them in piano roll mode... :(

Edited February 28, 2016 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

both these songs have swing, right?

[youtubehd]SZKzweMEH3w[/youtubehd]

[youtubehd]v9KW2V9pMzE[/youtubehd]

 

is it common to have some hihats on straight measures and then some swinging? i mean in the same loop (of course you could make variations in a whole song).

i ask this because i have hard times wondering if some songs are swing or not, i mean, i hit my hands and it looks like i'm playing straight 4 notes but then the tambourines kinda mess with my whole vibe...

54%

I like 56.

  On 2/28/2016 at 5:30 PM, THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON said:

how does one build an entire song, how does one compose some melodies after a swing beat, i mean, if i do the beat off grid, then it's a mess to try and write the melodies over it right? melodies off grid too?

 

i'm not too much of a player, i can't play neither beast or melodies, i usually draw them in piano roll mode... :(

 

It seems like you are thinking about the "how's" waaaay too much.

 

Relax, and just try a few things. At the end most of the musicians you love didnt knew either knew "how" to do it, they just did some knob twiddling and either it sounded shit or it sounded ace .

 

Trial and Error.

Bob Ross would say "we make only happy mistakes", but sometimes it just sounds like crap.

 

"if i do the beat off grid, then it's a mess to try and write the melodies over it right? "

I dont know, did you try it? I image now a broken fucked up shifted beat with some straight cute cosy melody and it sounds ace in my head.

 

Just try and dont waste your time with watching dumbass tutorial on youtube. Four totally shit sketches on your daw is more worth than 68 hours youtube shit tutorials, speaking of experience and coming closer to your own "this is how I do it".

 

Keep twiddling and keep swinging, maybe visit a nearby swingers club,... hmm or dont ;)

Edited February 28, 2016 by Test Fforet

One thing that's well worth doing is giving The Meters a listen, especially if it's that Dilla-esque swing you're after. Insanely good drumming with swing out the ass:

 

 

This stuff completely blows my mind, actually. There's full albums up on Youtube; pretty much every track is a power-lesson in swing, soul and groove. Beaut.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Leon Sumbitches

  On 2/28/2016 at 7:59 PM, Test Fforet said:

It seems like you are thinking about the "how's" waaaay too much.

 

Relax, and just try a few things. At the end most of the musicians you love didnt knew either knew "how" to do it, they just did some knob twiddling and either it sounded shit or it sounded ace .

 

Trial and Error.

Bob Ross would say "we make only happy mistakes", but sometimes it just sounds like crap.

 

"if i do the beat off grid, then it's a mess to try and write the melodies over it right? "

I dont know, did you try it? I image now a broken fucked up shifted beat with some straight cute cosy melody and it sounds ace in my head.

 

Just try and dont waste your time with watching dumbass tutorial on youtube. Four totally shit sketches on your daw is more worth than 68 hours youtube shit tutorials, speaking of experience and coming closer to your own "this is how I do it".

 

Keep twiddling and keep swinging, maybe visit a nearby swingers club,... hmm or dont ;)

 

only read your reply now, wise words, thanks a lot!!!

in the meantime, tried to make some stuff using my head but i got frustrated and quit...

smoked a joint and forgot i even tried, then i downloaded thinkbreak and opened FL again, started painting without giving it too much tought, and this what came out:

https://soundcloud.com/arranha-ceus/acid-swing

 

thanks for your words dude, i do indeed think too much about this stuff instead of jjust letting it flow...

Edited February 28, 2016 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

I dont know about other DAW but reaper has a great swing grid option,its quite good you can control the % of the swing so it can be slight or very pronounced.

Very useful!

 

I dont know about fl studio but if the swing is shit you could make a midi file in reaper and import it in fl studio.

Edited February 28, 2016 by fxbip

You need some musicianship I think.

 

I have never used a groove template. I pretty much always do manual nudging in ableton, maybe a four bar beat with custom nudged notes. You can program drifting swing that way.

A good trick is using lower velocity on swung notes.

The groove pool is the one feature of ableton I've never learned. That and I don't know how the impact or tension instruments work.

  On 2/29/2016 at 2:22 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 2/28/2016 at 11:22 PM, sheathe said:

A good trick is using lower velocity on swung notes.

Good one, damn, thanks for reminding me, I have really been slacking on dynamics lately.

  On 2/29/2016 at 2:22 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 2/28/2016 at 11:22 PM, sheathe said:

A good trick is using lower velocity on swung notes.

yeah defs. surprised no one has mentioned this so far.

 

anyone using ableton checked out the groove pool? it's a really neat idea which I often reach for when I want some swing, but I find I always gravitate to the same grooves and find the rest not as appealing. i think there's one in there for some really tight dilla style swing but i can never remember which one :s

 

 

I really, really appreciate the histograms in Bitwig for this. You can really quickly select groups of notes or all notes and induce variation and alter the mean value and spread. It's a really quick way to naturally experiment and just try a bunch of stuff.

 

this thing

I just do things manually, like nudge something back or forth.

The reason, is something that's more intense might swing differently than something that's softer. Or swing might want to sound different depending on the tempo. Some things sound better when swung by 32nd notes or 64th notes than 16th. It's worth it to go through your beat manually.

Another thing I do is, I beatbox my melodies and drums a lot, and i tend to swing things naturally.

Hope that makes sense.

Michael you've heard this track before but I swing things like crazy on this track, since I 'programmed' all the synths by sampling them and manually placing them on the timeline

https://soundcloud.com/evoava/bad-acid-hash

I think you've asked about this before actually...the whole track is swung except the last section. the synths 'follow' the drums basically, and all of this was done as i was placing it on the timeline. It all sounded like it needed to be swung, and that last section sounded weird being swung so I didn't.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Brisbot

  On 2/29/2016 at 6:56 AM, Brisbot said:

Another thing I do is, I beatbox my melodies and drums a lot, and i tend to swing things naturally.

 

 

 

Absolutely right here, Brisbot knows. I beatbox drums all the time, absolute natural feel (the problem is only i suck at beatboxing, but effectS will help to let it sound like biz markie or a tr 808)

 

I beatbox my melodies

that sounds interesting. like basslines and tom toms ? examples please :=)

  On 2/29/2016 at 6:56 AM, Brisbot said:

I think you've asked about this before actually...the whole track is swung except the last section. the synths 'follow' the drums basically, and all of this was done as i was placing it on the timeline. It all sounded like it needed to be swung, and that last section sounded weird being swung so I didn't.

really??? if so i quit, i read it completely the opposite...

all i hear is straight 1/16 hi hats until 2:10 where the swing really starts on the beat??? but then on the end, the straight hh comes back again... i'm only looking at the beat thought...

Edited February 29, 2016 by THIS IS MICHAEL JACKSON

you've got to trust your intuition when it comes to music or it will be less than what your potential is as a musician. So if someone tells you to swing 16th notes, that's just a quick way to get the effect so you can begin to understand it, then you can just manually swing it ahead or back as YOU hear it. So, try swinging it by 16ths and practice hearing when something needs to be swung, and then over time switch it up and just do it manually. It'll be faster and sound better and more intuitive in the long run.

Don't look at the beat, close your eyes and HEAR what needs to be there. Or if it is a melody that lends itself to swinging at all. It can sound off if you have a very mechanical melody, like that last section in the track. It would sound weird swung. Like the track in my sig doesn't have much swing, if any, it would sound off to me.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Brisbot

  Quote

 

I beatbox my melodies

that sounds interesting. like basslines and tom toms ? examples please :=)

Yes. I would post examples but it's kind of embarrassing. I beatbox the basic drums (kick, snare, hi hats, if I beatbox tom toms i beatbox them as melodies) and melodies at the same time pretty well, but i often miss the intended key i'm hearing in my brain so it sounds weird but I fix it in my DAW. i'll look for one that isn't totally embarrassing but no promises.

 

when i was a kid i'd beatbox all the time. I remember when i was in 3rd grade a teacher got pissed at me as i was beatboxing and ignoring her and yelled at me saying "you know we can all hear you?" Good times. It's weird, as a kid it was this annoying habit I had, but when I started making music it became one of my greatest assets.

 

after that I learned to just beatbox at low volumes with my mouth, louder volumes when i'm alone. I make kicks with my teeth (its low volume when i record), high hats with tip of tongue, snares with tongue clicking. I don't actually listen to beatboxing or anything so i don't do any of the conventional stuff. maybe i should.

 

I'll just subconsciously and consciously work on a song in my head and mouth. maybe use my brain for melodies and beatbox drums with mouth really low. then i find some place along and put it together.

 

Songs often come straight up fully formed in my brain so i've been looking for ways to get it down.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Brisbot

just put a back beat on it and have fun placing hits in the grid and voila, swing. It's all in the mind anyway. It doesn't need to be out to be in or in to be out, the funk will find a way.

Record drums, make sure the transients come through well and eliminate mud..

Then use a plugin or device to detect transients and replace them with midi notes.

Route the resulting midi clip into a drum kit and start experimenting with separating them

 

I'm not really a drummer but still find it easier to pop out a quickie on a drum(s).. Can't vouch for which VST to use as I haven't tried any third party replacers.

Edited March 1, 2016 by maitake

  On 2/29/2016 at 9:09 PM, Brisbot said:

you've got to trust your intuition when it comes to music or it will be less than what your potential is as a musician. So if someone tells you to swing 16th notes, that's just a quick way to get the effect so you can begin to understand it, then you can just manually swing it ahead or back as YOU hear it. So, try swinging it by 16ths and practice hearing when something needs to be swung, and then over time switch it up and just do it manually. It'll be faster and sound better and more intuitive in the long run.

thanks man :thumbsup:

If you use Logic theres actually a tool called 'drum replacement/doubling' which detects the transients in your audio file and puts midi notes in there place. Super fast and pretty accurate.

Use old breaks to create groove templates and then apply them to other breaks, kits etc

 

Or take a break or loop from one bpm and import it into another....but don't adjust the transients or hit points or whatever and chop that shit up...ignore bpm...ignore meter....ignore transients....randomly chop....then choose....then random...then choice etc

 

I think groove is more important than swing....the relationship between instruments, sounds....not necessarily anything to do with the grid or timing....

Edited March 2, 2016 by bendish