stupid first world problems you're dealing with

  On 2/4/2018 at 9:46 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/4/2018 at 12:37 PM, Zeffolia said:

I make no claims that gender roles are right or just, simply that they are ignored when they come to male gender roles. The male gender role of "do hard physical labor and die at a higher rate than women, also you have to fight all the wars" is far worse than "you have to stay safe at home and raise babies" as far as I'm concerned - one has inherently deadly risks to the individual, one does not.

Women have been trying to join the marines for fucking ages. They’re finally able to.

Plenty of women die during wars.

 

Do you still think women are rummaging through your trash to get your jizz and impregnate themselves so they can claim child support?

 

You claim not to be bitter toward women, but it sure sounds like you are, because they happen to be enjoying some equality for the first time in, well, ever.

 

 

Great response, it definitely doesn't completely ignore everything I said and create massive straw men or anything /s

 

I never said I think women are rummaging through my trash to get my jizz and impregnate themselves so they can claim child support - I simply said it's a real possibility and it has happened to men before, and the fact that this can be done demonstrates that the current laws surrounding child support don't fully catch all the edge cases and need to be revised in favor of a more fair system that women can't exploit - since it's entirely women who are capable of exploiting the existing system

 

As for your last sentence, I really don't see how it's a reply to my post.  I'm not bitter towards women, and I just wrote a very detailed explanation of why on the last page which was conveniently ignored it seems.  Oh well.  This is the type of topic that is difficult to discuss without fallacious replies such as these so I can't say I'm surprised really.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Zeffolia

Page 777 should be holier than this.

 

Went to the Mac's to get a monthly bus pass.  Paid my $85 on debit.  Walk out.  Realize I don't have the pass.  Pretty sure the girl never handed it to me.  Go back in... she's says she gave it to me.  Nothing I can do.  $85 thrown into oblivion.  FML.  It's either change or bus tickets from now on.  Can't believe I got suckered into the pass thing in the first place - it's just nice not ever having to scrounge for change at the last minute all the time.

Can't you ask them to check the cameras? =(

Edited February 4, 2018 by Bulk VanderHooj

She's not gonna check the cameras... Eh, I guess maybe I resign myself too easily.  I don't like making a big issue out of things.  If situations get stupid I just try to put them behind me as quickly as possible.  Probably not the best way to get ahead in life.

  On 2/4/2018 at 10:47 PM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 2/4/2018 at 9:46 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 2/4/2018 at 12:37 PM, Zeffolia said:

I make no claims that gender roles are right or just, simply that they are ignored when they come to male gender roles. The male gender role of "do hard physical labor and die at a higher rate than women, also you have to fight all the wars" is far worse than "you have to stay safe at home and raise babies" as far as I'm concerned - one has inherently deadly risks to the individual, one does not.

Women have been trying to join the marines for fucking ages. They’re finally able to.

Plenty of women die during wars.

 

Do you still think women are rummaging through your trash to get your jizz and impregnate themselves so they can claim child support?

 

You claim not to be bitter toward women, but it sure sounds like you are, because they happen to be enjoying some equality for the first time in, well, ever.

 

 

Great response, it definitely doesn't completely ignore everything I said and create massive straw men or anything /s

 

I never said I think women are rummaging through my trash to get my jizz and impregnate themselves so they can claim child support - I simply said it's a real possibility and it has happened to men before, and the fact that this can be done demonstrates that the current laws surrounding child support don't fully catch all the edge cases and need to be revised in favor of a more fair system that women can't exploit - since it's entirely women who are capable of exploiting the existing system

 

As for your last sentence, I really don't see how it's a reply to my post.  I'm not bitter towards women, and I just wrote a very detailed explanation of why on the last page which was conveniently ignored it seems.  Oh well.  This is the type of topic that is difficult to discuss without fallacious replies such as these so I can't say I'm surprised really.

 

 

Lets follow through the thought process. Why have women historically been excluded from combat roles? Because men in charge have excluded them. Look at all the reasons even in the modern age that men have given, and thus the comment about women trying to join the marines gains context. Until you see women in equal numbers in combat roles, men will continue to make up the majority of the combat deaths. (Yes I've read the arguments - "they would be a physical liability, they would make us weaker, male soldiers would rape the female soldiers.." so clearly, there is a view that women are the weaker sex, and thus deserve to be protected by "real men").

 

Your alternative to that is "stay home safe and raise babies". But since we are talking about wartime deaths, the relevant number is total deaths. If you read through this paper (a brief literature review), you'll find the ratio changes dramatically. When you include civilian casualties (which make up the vast majority of deaths in modern combat), males still make up the majority, but by nowhere near as large a margin. When you account for long term impacts, women seem to be more greatly affected.

 

Semen doesn't live outside the body for more than an hour, so those dudes must have been in a real hurry to chuck out their jizzrags and the females must have been sitting there like Apple fanatics waiting in line for the newest iPhone to scoop that precious precious man goo.

 

Just because you don't "buy the argument" that the patriarchy exists, doesn't mean it's not real.

 

If you really want to be upset at someone - be upset at the people who exploit your labour to further their material wealth.

My FWP: I shitted up the FWP thread. Sorry guys.

  On 2/5/2018 at 3:48 AM, chenGOD said:

My FWP: I shitted up the FWP thread. Sorry guys.

 

TBF, you did start it. Report yourself.

The idea that throughout history women have been eager and desperate to become soldiers, but patriarchal sexist military leaders didn't let them join due to gender based discrimination, is so intellectually dishonest I won't even bother entertaining it.  And you're oversimplifying this situation so much.  Women enforce gender roles as well, upon men.  Not only biologically in our far past through sexual selection of mates, but in modern day times through selection of husbands.  There may be historical periods where this selection mechanism was limited due to patriarchal structures in which fathers chose the mates of daughters, but this would have only occurred after sufficient cognitive and social development of the species and would be relatively recent.  

 

I see a lot of grasping at straws to explain every burden of women as being a result of gender based discrimination, but I don't see the same grasping to explain similar or significantly worse burdens which are primarily faced by men.  This is the primary issue I have with this entire debate.  It spans many historical time periods and cultures, and even now differs between cultures.  Yet the loudest feminist talking points regarding the situation oversimplify everything to the point of it being a caricature of the real thing in which no matter what, anything that negatively affects women is a result of a patriarchal power structure which disadvantages them, and conveniently everything that negatively affects men is also a result of that same patriarchal power structure which they claim to be the fault of man

 

High level decisions like waging war are not made by "men" as a group despite the fact that the small minority of individuals who made that decision were men.  Feminists turn this into a gender issue when it's really a class issue.

 

To claim that not being allowed to join wars is more harmful than historically being forced to join is disgusting.  To ignore the atrocities men have faced throughout history in favor of those women have faced is disgusting.  It's easy to give in to the stronger empathy response humans have towards women than men, and this is a large source of many of these gender based issues I'm pointing out, and the reason they are ignored and laughed at.  

 

And death is a long-term impact, the longest and worst one, since it destroys the individual's future  - the idea that dying isn't as bad as the continued hardship after survival that women face during and after war is preposterous

In conclusion, society cares more about the wage gap than the personal spending gap, the homelessness rate gap, the workplace death gap, the suicide rate gap, the healthcare spendings gap, and all sorts of other gaps that harm males more than females.  And this is unacceptable and indicative of a lack of intellectual honesty in those claiming that feminism is more important than humanism.

SFWP: I'm an asshole and don't really care?

Edited February 5, 2018 by auxien

https://forum.watmm.com/topic/86700-dank-memes/page-253

  On 2/5/2018 at 4:21 AM, Zeffolia said:

The idea that throughout history women have been eager and desperate to become soldiers, but patriarchal sexist military leaders didn't let them join due to gender based discrimination, is so intellectually dishonest I won't even bother entertaining it.  And you're oversimplifying this situation so much.  Women enforce gender roles as well, upon men.  Not only biologically in our far past through sexual selection of mates, but in modern day times through selection of husbands.  There may be historical periods where this selection mechanism was limited due to patriarchal structures in which fathers chose the mates of daughters, but this would have only occurred after sufficient cognitive and social development of the species and would be relatively recent.  

 

I see a lot of grasping at straws to explain every burden of women as being a result of gender based discrimination, but I don't see the same grasping to explain similar or significantly worse burdens which are primarily faced by men.  This is the primary issue I have with this entire debate.  It spans many historical time periods and cultures, and even now differs between cultures.  Yet the loudest feminist talking points regarding the situation oversimplify everything to the point of it being a caricature of the real thing in which no matter what, anything that negatively affects women is a result of a patriarchal power structure which disadvantages them, and conveniently everything that negatively affects men is also a result of that same patriarchal power structure which they claim to be the fault of man

 

High level decisions like waging war are not made by "men" as a group despite the fact that the small minority of individuals who made that decision were men.  Feminists turn this into a gender issue when it's really a class issue.

 

To claim that not being allowed to join wars is more harmful than historically being forced to join is disgusting.  To ignore the atrocities men have faced throughout history in favor of those women have faced is disgusting.  It's easy to give in to the stronger empathy response humans have towards women than men, and this is a large source of many of these gender based issues I'm pointing out, and the reason they are ignored and laughed at.  

 

And death is a long-term impact, the longest and worst one, since it destroys the individual's future  - the idea that dying isn't as bad as the continued hardship after survival that women face during and after war is preposterous

In conclusion, society cares more about the wage gap than the personal spending gap, the homelessness rate gap, the workplace death gap, the suicide rate gap, the healthcare spendings gap, and all sorts of other gaps that harm males more than females.  And this is unacceptable and indicative of a lack of intellectual honesty in those claiming that feminism is more important than humanism.

 

imagine this being read aloud at traffic court, apropos of nothing. "your honor i've prepared a statement..."

Yeah, it's definitely apropos of nothing and definitely isn't relevant to the conversation taking place in this thread /s

ITT someone being mad that women are allowed to choose their partners. You could always buy a bride and avoid the problem altogether.

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:16 AM, Gocab said:

ITT someone being mad that women are allowed to choose their partners. You could always buy a bride and avoid the problem altogether.

 

Literally none of my posts even remotely relate to this claim, can you provide one quote from this thread that is even tangentially related to this...?  No, you can't, because you're engaging in fallacious straw manning for comedic effect I assume.

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 4:21 AM, Zeffolia said:

Women enforce gender roles as well, upon men. Not only biologically in our far past through sexual selection of mates, but in modern day times through selection of husbands.

Or did the strongest men get to fuck the women in our far past? Are you implying that only women choose their partners?

  Quote

There may be historical periods where this selection mechanism was limited due to patriarchal structures in which fathers chose the mates of daughters, but this would have only occurred after sufficient cognitive and social development of the species and would be relatively recent.

 

This still happens on a massive scale mate, just not in some secular western countries, which would be a relatively recent development.

 

Do you think men are the sexually oppressed ones? Are you thinking about all the male victims of sexual trafficking? The disproportionately large number of male sexual workers/slaves? Men have fucked and abused women for centuries.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Gocab

Pretty sure we've gone over all this shit before.

time is a flat circle

Yeah, sorry

on my facebook feed, when i actually know the situation of the guys who have become convinced by it, this argument loop is exlusively maintained by guys suffering from obesity, chronically low self esteem, or brutal break-ups of relationships they were heavily invested in.

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:53 AM, Gocab said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 4:21 AM, Zeffolia said:

Women enforce gender roles as well, upon men. Not only biologically in our far past through sexual selection of mates, but in modern day times through selection of husbands.

Or did the strongest men get to fuck the women in our far past? Are you implying that only women choose their partners?

  Quote

There may be historical periods where this selection mechanism was limited due to patriarchal structures in which fathers chose the mates of daughters, but this would have only occurred after sufficient cognitive and social development of the species and would be relatively recent.

This still happens on a massive scale mate, just not in some secular western countries, which would be a relatively recent development.

 

Do you think men are the sexually oppressed ones? Are you thinking about all the male victims of sexual trafficking? The disproportionately large number of male sexual workers/slaves? Men have fucked and abused women for centuries.

 

 

The vast majority of all species' sexual selective pressure is the female sexual selection mechanism, primates not excluded.  Men chose their partners as well but in general the female sexual selection mechanism is the filter while the male sexual selection mechanism is the wide cast net.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection#In_different_taxa

 

And I'm not disputing anything you're saying except for the claim I never made which you put into my mouth (the claim that males are sexually oppressed)

 

And as usual you're responding to a bunch of claims I never made.  I presented some well known biological facts as a refutation of claims that males have all of the cultural sculpting power within our species, when in reality females are the ones who formed males into that image through female sexual selection mechanisms and this is a rarely mentioned fact.  Sex trafficking and things like this are completely unrelated to this topic and you're making it emotionally charged for no reason by bringing up these irrelevant facts.  They're important, but they have nothing to do with topic what I was talking about regarding female sexual selection

 

Also I never said that it's bad that females get to choose who they mate with, you're misrepresenting what I said once again.  I said that females have had the major sexually selective influence on our species since the beginning of life itself.  This is how it is in all species - males prove themselves worthy and females select between the eligible mates.  There are exceptions, but this is the template.  This exerts enormous power on the evolution of species, ourselves included.

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:59 AM, messiaen said:

on my facebook feed, when i actually know the situation of the guys who have become convinced by it, this argument loop is exlusively maintained by guys suffering from obesity, chronically low self esteem, or brutal break-ups of relationships they were heavily invested in.

 

Irrelevant ad hominem, and even if this were true it doesn't affect the validity of the statements.  Please adopt a more rational stance.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Zeffolia

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:58 AM, Gocab said:

Yeah, sorry

No worries man, it's not directed at you. I'm just saying this isn't the first time the pot has been stirred on WATMM regarding so-called male victimhood.

 

Latest FWP is I have a dental appointment in the morning and I feel like I can't be arsed to floss my teeth.

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:50 AM, roasty said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

 

 

Nice ad hominem, I guess it's impossible to have civil discussions with childish idiots.

  On 2/5/2018 at 8:11 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 2/5/2018 at 7:58 AM, Gocab said:

Yeah, sorry

No worries man, it's not directed at you. I'm just saying this isn't the first time the pot has been stirred on WATMM regarding so-called male victimhood.

 

Latest FWP is I have a dental appointment in the morning and I feel like I can't be arsed to floss my teeth.

 

 

Homelessness rate gap, suicide rate gap, war death rate gap, workplace injury rate gap, workplace death rate gap, divorce alimony payment gap, healthcare spending gap, social outreach program gap - yeah none of these things matter I guess they're just funny topics to joke about, only supposedly fat depressed guys who can't get laid on Facebook care about them /s

Edited February 5, 2018 by Zeffolia

i stopped arguing on the internet half a decade ago. maybe give it a try, its quite good.

Latest FWP is Zeff calling me childish idiot when I just wanted to share a funny video making light of all this :(