Gaddafi's death

  Quote

29. Algeria noted the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to promote human rights,

which reflected the country’s commitment to complying with Human Rights Council

resolutions and cooperating with the international community. Algeria welcomed the

national institutional framework that had been set up, in particular the National Human

Rights Committee. It noted that the country had made some progress in the area of

education, as well as social and economic progress since the lifting of economic sanctions.

It also noted the challenge of increased illegal immigration. Algeria made

recommendations.

Any country is going to see economic progress once sanctions have been lifted. WTF kind of obtuse people make these reports?

I saw this and stopped reading. This shit is fucking ridiculous and a farce.

  Quote

7

30. Qatar praised the legal framework for the protection of human rights and freedoms,

including, inter alia, its criminal code and criminal procedure law, which provided legal

guarantees for the implementation of those rights. Qatar expressed appreciation for the

improvements made in the areas of education and health care, the rights of women, children

and the elderly, and the situation of people with special needs.

Qatar for the protection of human rights? BAHAHAHA fuck this council.

the pro-gadhaffi camp should come up with some first-person accounts of the citizens on life in libya and stuff, maybe some bloggers or something like that. preferably, before the revolution started because it's all polarized right now.

  On 10/24/2011 at 8:32 PM, eugene said:

the pro-gadhaffi camp should come up with some first-person accounts of the citizens on life in libya and stuff, maybe some bloggers or something like that. preferably, before the revolution started because it's all polarized right now.

i dont think anyone here is pro-gadaffi. A dictator can occasionally contribute something positive on the national level, just ask Park Chung-Hee or Deng Xiaoping . Doesn't make them all-around good people.

  On 10/24/2011 at 6:09 PM, hexson said:

  On 10/24/2011 at 12:50 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

i hate to say this, but I agree with Eugene on this one.

 

im not calling bullshit, but there isnt a single citation in there.

 

we could start here:

 

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf

 

This is a UN report on Libyan Arab Jamahiriya from 4th January 2011. I think you will be quite surprised by the report.

Could you please reply to my post about the bank of libya not issuing interest-free money, taking loans from the Federal Reserve, and providing the example of the Bank of Canada as a Western central bank which is not privately owned (the Bank of England being another example).

  On 10/24/2011 at 8:31 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  Quote

29. Algeria noted the efforts of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to promote human rights,

which reflected the country’s commitment to complying with Human Rights Council

resolutions and cooperating with the international community. Algeria welcomed the

national institutional framework that had been set up, in particular the National Human

Rights Committee. It noted that the country had made some progress in the area of

education, as well as social and economic progress since the lifting of economic sanctions.

It also noted the challenge of increased illegal immigration. Algeria made

recommendations.

 

Any country is going to see economic progress once sanctions have been lifted. WTF kind of obtuse people make these reports?

 

 

I saw this and stopped reading. This shit is fucking ridiculous and a farce.

 

  Quote

7

30. Qatar praised the legal framework for the protection of human rights and freedoms,

including, inter alia, its criminal code and criminal procedure law, which provided legal

guarantees for the implementation of those rights. Qatar expressed appreciation for the

improvements made in the areas of education and health care, the rights of women, children

and the elderly, and the situation of people with special needs.

 

Qatar for the protection of human rights? BAHAHAHA fuck this council.

Exactly. It's like asking other regimes what they think of the Libyan regime. Well, what would North Korea say? Would they condemn the lack of free press? Sure.

that's not accurate if we're being honest here, the report is also based on those:

(a) A national report submitted/written presentation made in accordance with

paragraph 15 (a) (A/HRC/WG.6/9/ LBY /1);

(b) A compilation prepared by the Office of the United Nations High

Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) in accordance with paragraph 15 (b)

(A/HRC/WG.6/9/LBY/2);

© A summary prepared by OHCHR in accordance with paragraph 15 ©

(A/HRC/WG.6/9/LBY/3).

i've peeked into those docs, it's a lot of tldr but what's suspicious is that there's very little details on methodology of those unhrc agents' fact finding mission.

These are "political" documents. Politics and methodology are each others enemy. There are good intentions though. And if nations really like each other they make sure to focus on all the nice stuff and ignore the "difficult" stuff. Kinda like real-life friends.

the last 2 are supposed to be impartial documents, the unhrc people produce them.

i dont know about news and stuff exactly what wrong did this guy to die?

sup your schtick is starting to wear thin.

Libya & QADDAFI ...FACTS THAT CANT BE DENIED

1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free

for all its citizens.

2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are

state-owned and loans given

to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

3. Home considered a human right in Libya –

Gaddafi vowed that his parents

would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a

home. Gaddafi’s father has

died while him, his wife and his mother are still living

in a tent.

4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$

50,000 ) by the government

to buy their first apartment so to help start up the

family.

5. Education and medical treatments are free in

Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25%

of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.

6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career,

they would receive farming

land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and

livestock to kick- start their farms

– all for free.

7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical

facilities they need in Libya,

the government funds them to go abroad for it –

not only free but they get US

$2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.

8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government

subsidized 50% of the price.

9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves

amount to $150 billion – now

frozen globally.

11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after

graduation the state would

pay the average salary of the profession as if he or

she is employed until

employment is found.

12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to

the bank accounts of all

Libyan citizens.

13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US

$5 ,000

14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation

project, known as the Great

Man-Made River project, to make water readily

available throughout the desert

country.

that sounds way dope but what about the bad stuff?

  On 10/25/2011 at 2:37 AM, huzur said:

Libya & QADDAFI ...FACTS THAT CANT BE DENIED

 

 

1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free

for all its citizens.

 

2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are

state-owned and loans given

to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

 

3. Home considered a human right in Libya –

Gaddafi vowed that his parents

would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a

home. Gaddafi’s father has

died while him, his wife and his mother are still living

in a tent.

 

4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$

50,000 ) by the government

to buy their first apartment so to help start up the

family.

 

5. Education and medical treatments are free in

Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25%

of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.

 

6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career,

they would receive farming

land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and

livestock to kick- start their farms

– all for free.

 

7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical

facilities they need in Libya,

the government funds them to go abroad for it –

not only free but they get US

$2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.

 

8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government

subsidized 50% of the price.

 

9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.

 

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves

amount to $150 billion – now

frozen globally.

 

11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after

graduation the state would

pay the average salary of the profession as if he or

she is employed until

employment is found.

 

12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to

the bank accounts of all

Libyan citizens.

 

13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US

$5 ,000

 

14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

 

15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

 

16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation

project, known as the Great

Man-Made River project, to make water readily

available throughout the desert

country.

link me to some hard evidence.

hey, did you know North Korea is the most prosperous and economically successful country in Asia? i know, i didn't believe it either until I read it on a youtubes video.

the jews did north korea

  On 10/25/2011 at 3:25 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 10/25/2011 at 2:37 AM, huzur said:

Libya & QADDAFI ...FACTS THAT CANT BE DENIED

 

 

1. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free

for all its citizens.

 

2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are

state-owned and loans given

to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

 

3. Home considered a human right in Libya –

Gaddafi vowed that his parents

would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a

home. Gaddafi’s father has

died while him, his wife and his mother are still living

in a tent.

 

4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$

50,000 ) by the government

to buy their first apartment so to help start up the

family.

 

5. Education and medical treatments are free in

Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25%

of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.

 

6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career,

they would receive farming

land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and

livestock to kick- start their farms

– all for free.

 

7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical

facilities they need in Libya,

the government funds them to go abroad for it –

not only free but they get US

$2, 300/mth accommodation and car allowance.

 

8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government

subsidized 50% of the price.

 

9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0. 14 per liter.

 

10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves

amount to $150 billion – now

frozen globally.

 

11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after

graduation the state would

pay the average salary of the profession as if he or

she is employed until

employment is found.

 

12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to

the bank accounts of all

Libyan citizens.

 

13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US

$5 ,000

 

14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

 

15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

 

16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation

project, known as the Great

Man-Made River project, to make water readily

available throughout the desert

country.

 

link me to some hard evidence.

 

hey, did you know North Korea is the most prosperous and economically successful country in Asia? i know, i didn't believe it either until I read it on a youtubes video.

http://economicsnewspaper.com/economics/the-libyan-crisis-spontaneous-revolution-or-coup-in-progress-28187.html

also this:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html

Neither of those articles give any real sources - the first links to some french article which doesn't say where it gets its information from.

The second says that much of it might be propaganda.

Additionally the second article is somewhat contradictory. They start off by saying that Libya produces only 2% of the world's oil, so then the overthrow of the Gaddafi regime must not be about oil. Then later they say "Libya not only has oil. According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), its central bank has nearly 144 tonnes of gold in its vaults. With that sort of asset base, who needs the BIS, the IMF and their rules?"

So now Libya has enough oil to warrant a mention? Additionally, while 144 tonnes of gold sounds like a lot - at the current market price, that works out to about $7.6 billion US. Not really all that much. And of course if Libya were to attempt to sell that much gold on the international market, the price of gold would go down, thus reducing it's supply even more.

Finally, no one has addressed the question that I raised earlier: if the Libyan Central Bank were so strong - why was it borrowing money from the US Federal Reserve?

Is this still a rumour?

Why not change the title

apparently they burned his body at a secret location in the desert this morning.

  On 10/25/2011 at 7:41 AM, chenGOD said:

Neither of those articles give any real sources - the first links to some french article which doesn't say where it gets its information from.

The second says that much of it might be propaganda.

Additionally the second article is somewhat contradictory. They start off by saying that Libya produces only 2% of the world's oil, so then the overthrow of the Gaddafi regime must not be about oil. Then later they say "Libya not only has oil. According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), its central bank has nearly 144 tonnes of gold in its vaults. With that sort of asset base, who needs the BIS, the IMF and their rules?"

So now Libya has enough oil to warrant a mention? Additionally, while 144 tonnes of gold sounds like a lot - at the current market price, that works out to about $7.6 billion US. Not really all that much. And of course if Libya were to attempt to sell that much gold on the international market, the price of gold would go down, thus reducing it's supply even more.

Finally, no one has addressed the question that I raised earlier: if the Libyan Central Bank were so strong - why was it borrowing money from the US Federal Reserve?

hey chen, do you have a link to your source of information about Libya borrowing money from the fed? I hadn't heard about that one.

  On 10/25/2011 at 3:18 PM, hexson said:

  On 10/25/2011 at 7:41 AM, chenGOD said:

Neither of those articles give any real sources - the first links to some french article which doesn't say where it gets its information from.

The second says that much of it might be propaganda.

Additionally the second article is somewhat contradictory. They start off by saying that Libya produces only 2% of the world's oil, so then the overthrow of the Gaddafi regime must not be about oil. Then later they say "Libya not only has oil. According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), its central bank has nearly 144 tonnes of gold in its vaults. With that sort of asset base, who needs the BIS, the IMF and their rules?"

So now Libya has enough oil to warrant a mention? Additionally, while 144 tonnes of gold sounds like a lot - at the current market price, that works out to about $7.6 billion US. Not really all that much. And of course if Libya were to attempt to sell that much gold on the international market, the price of gold would go down, thus reducing it's supply even more.

Finally, no one has addressed the question that I raised earlier: if the Libyan Central Bank were so strong - why was it borrowing money from the US Federal Reserve?

hey chen, do you have a link to your source of information about Libya borrowing money from the fed? I hadn't heard about that one.

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=ece720e4-d5d6-4eff-937c-dcada784c3f9

Independent Senator.

Here's a letter he sent to the fed (PDF link)

http://sanders.senate.gov/graphics/libya_letter.pdf

Don't know what to say, Chen. Except that I find the outcome of the past few months to be less than desirable. Don't you think Saudi Arabia would've been a much better target for NATO? North Korea? USA? (lol)

NATO calling airstrikes against the US would be completely against its own interests.

  On 10/26/2011 at 4:26 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

NATO calling airstrikes against the US would be completely against its own interests.

ergo, the lol?

  On 10/25/2011 at 9:47 AM, Gocab said:

apparently they burned his body at a secret location in the desert this morning.

No, he was buried. Cremation is uncommon and generally avoided if possible in Islamic countries.

Other than that, I've not really read the thread so don't want to weigh in on the arguments. Gaddafi didn't deserve to die the way he did, though. Nobody does. And the triumphant reaction from much of the British press the next day was sickening. Only the Financial Times struck the right tone imho.

  On 10/26/2011 at 4:44 PM, Iain C said:

  On 10/25/2011 at 9:47 AM, Gocab said:

apparently they burned his body at a secret location in the desert this morning.

 

No, he was buried. Cremation is uncommon and generally avoided if possible in Islamic countries.

 

Other than that, I've not really read the thread so don't want to weigh in on the arguments. Gaddafi didn't deserve to die the way he did, though. Nobody does. And the triumphant reaction from much of the British press the next day was sickening. Only the Financial Times struck the right tone imho.

This is worse than the British press could ever be:

That bitch makes me want to puke and give Monica Lewinski cunnilingus.