"Old School" Hardware Sequencers

A while back I got an MC-303 for this kind of reason, hoping it would be like the TB-303's sequencer (minus the sticky buttons that you get after someone's been using it for twenty years) with MIDI out, so you could have fun step sequencing other hardware (say, some Novation rackmounts emulating Roland's holy trinity). I never did get on with the MC-303's sequencer though, which is a shame, because in theory it was a good idea.

But let's face it, you can use any software sequencer (even Impulse Tracker with MIDI out, let alone a fully fledged DAW) and get all the same functionality, plus your computer monitor lets you actually see everything at a glance, making it trivially easy to copy and paste things and get an overview for the whole arrangement. If you're in it for the romanticism, you can use the sequencer in a TB-303 or MC-202 with its CV outputs, but if you're in it to make some great music, just have done with it already and use a DAW. You can still draw on sixteen step sequences to your heart's content, and then half way through the track suddenly introduce some 1/32nd notes just to show off that you're using something made in the last twenty years. :)

I'm glad you liked my little essay on step sequencers. Try one of my other ones, on desire as procrastination. Any ~£250 DAW and its bundled plug-ins contains higher technology and more music making possibilities than, say, what Richard D. James could afford when he made Selected Ambient Works 85-92. (Off the top of my head, as I happen to be listening to it right now.) Take advantage of that fact.

This is totally not what you're asking but I have to say the Native Instruments Maschine is a fine thing for quickly punching out ideas, at least give it a try.

Let me phrase this a bit better... as BCM pointed out, Doepfer's MAQ 16/3 sounds like the kind of thing that you're after. However, for the same amount of money, you could probably buy a netbook computer, a DAW, and if necessary a MIDI-over-USB to CV converter, and have all the same functionality plus a lot more besides.

It's nice to sometimes use the step sequenced aesthetic, but why limit yourself to only using it? It's nice to also be able to play freehand. It's also nice to have more flexibility, even if you do want to limit yourself to sixteen note sequences. Instead of making a single arpeggio sequence, then transposing it into different chords, you can copy and paste it and then play different inversions when you transpose it into different chords, so the distance in pitch between the notes can change. It's a shame not to take advantage of the ability to do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_5200_LC

http://www.umich.edu/~archive/mac/sound/midi/

fun fun fun

I wouldn't go as far as to call hooking up cables fun, but USB really makes it a solved problem for the most part. One end of the lead goes into the back of my computer, the other into my synth's MIDI-in module. Sorted. It's at least no more difficult than wiring up a regular MIDI lead, or a pair of CV and gate leads.

  On 11/22/2011 at 12:52 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

the rm1x would be perfect if it had more outs. It would even be awesome if you could make an output into a send out.

 

can that be done on an MPC1000? I know there are lots of outs. Can one be configured as a send out?

yes plus you can resample the input however live input resampling has been disabled on jjos for some reason however recording the midi playback beforehand is a workaround. much fun to be had with a kaoss3 or other fancy realtime processor

back ot and software sequencers are great all round especially for arranging with a decent grid controller but a good hardware realtime step sequencer is a lot more immediate and intuative on the fly

  On 11/21/2011 at 10:16 PM, iep said:

  On 11/21/2011 at 7:32 PM, Ascdi said:

The rm1x is pretty bonkers, I dunno if I'd call it old school though.

 

maybe not by mmt8 standards. but it has oldschool sensibilities, as in that it uses the step sequencer model and and rugged case with lots of toggles and knobs. it also has a 3.5" floppy drive yo. the more advanced digital features make for some awesome sequencing versatility though, highly recommended for grid/step-sequenced based purposed and very good value for money. no joke.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. All the MIDI delays and shit on the 8 buttons of chaos are incredible. I've made some tracks on it but I would not say I've mastered it yet.

The internal sounds on the rm1x are... not good. And there's no sampler. I mean, the sounds can be charming or usable, but they're not GOOD. But yes, everyone would be well served trying an rm1x. I'm not aware of many other sequencers, including software ones, that do some of the weird shit it can do.

for me it would be a lot more about getting off of the same computer I sit behind for 8-9 hours a day at work. I work at home, so it's become hard to make the differentiation between when I'm working and we I'm not.

It would be nice to be able to make something, anything, without being forced to look at a plasma screen. That's all really.

Hopefully in a few years we'll have a studio outside the house where I can work, so at home I can leave the music gear connected and have that mental space.

  On 11/22/2011 at 4:20 PM, Ascdi said:

  On 11/21/2011 at 10:16 PM, iep said:

  On 11/21/2011 at 7:32 PM, Ascdi said:

The rm1x is pretty bonkers, I dunno if I'd call it old school though.

maybe not by mmt8 standards. but it has oldschool sensibilities, as in that it uses the step sequencer model and and rugged case with lots of toggles and knobs. it also has a 3.5" floppy drive yo. the more advanced digital features make for some awesome sequencing versatility though, highly recommended for grid/step-sequenced based purposed and very good value for money. no joke.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. All the MIDI delays and shit on the 8 buttons of chaos are incredible. I've made some tracks on it but I would not say I've mastered it yet. The internal sounds on the rm1x are... not good. And there's no sampler. I mean, the sounds can be charming or usable, but they're not GOOD. But yes, everyone would be well served trying an rm1x. I'm not aware of many other sequencers, including software ones, that do some of the weird shit it can do.

you could definitely make logic do all that with the environment view.

I've never really used a MIDI delay / arp / harmonizer plugin that works the same way they do on the rm1x. But yes, MIDI plugins do exist.

  On 11/22/2011 at 4:43 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

for me it would be a lot more about getting off of the same computer I sit behind for 8-9 hours a day at work

I totally get your point. I'm not spending that amount of time behind my computer but I just can't get 100% into my music when I'm in front of my computer - there's always something to disturb you from what you're doing and it just "breaks the workflow". But when I'm locked in my room in fronts of machines I'm way more efficient.

  On 11/22/2011 at 1:13 PM, ZoeB said:

But let's face it, you can use any software sequencer (even Impulse Tracker with MIDI out, let alone a fully fledged DAW) and get all the same functionality, plus your computer monitor lets you actually see everything at a glance, making it trivially easy to copy and paste things and get an overview for the whole arrangement. If you're in it for the romanticism, you can use the sequencer in a TB-303 or MC-202 with its CV outputs, but if you're in it to make some great music, just have done with it already and use a DAW. You can still draw on sixteen step sequences to your heart's content, and then half way through the track suddenly introduce some 1/32nd notes just to show off that you're using something made in the last twenty years. :)

 

I'm glad you liked my little essay on step sequencers. Try one of my other ones, on desire as procrastination. Any ~£250 DAW and its bundled plug-ins contains higher technology and more music making possibilities than, say, what Richard D. James could afford when he made Selected Ambient Works 85-92. (Off the top of my head, as I happen to be listening to it right now.) Take advantage of that fact.

Thx for the long answer ! In fact, I currently work on DAW but I just don't like it that much. It has some much possibilities that I can't really make anything really "finished". Still your point of view is really interesting ! I was in fact thinking about the "Netbook+DAW" thing too - getting Buzz Machines on one of those tiny PC and then making music wherever I'd like to but I it wouldn't be as fun as having a proper hardware station to work on. Maybe it's just me not knowing to use properly a computer, and maybe the best thing to do is to "get the best of both world" aka working on a versatile, interconnected soft/hardware environment.

Speaking of what the Maschine could be a good alternative indeed. I've read here on WATMM that a new, smaller model is out ? The Maschine Mikro I think. Is this any good ???

And about the MPC...Is the MPC 500 a good deal as well ?

Again, thanks alot to each of you here

EDIT : @modey I'll check this Seq24 this week-end for sure ! Thx.

yeah, the maschine mikro is out and it's very nice, you lose a bunch of rotary controllers, but everything else from the "full" version is there.

  On 11/22/2011 at 1:23 PM, ZoeB said:

Let me phrase this a bit better... as BCM pointed out, Doepfer's MAQ 16/3 sounds like the kind of thing that you're after. However, for the same amount of money, you could probably buy a netbook computer, a DAW, and if necessary a MIDI-over-USB to CV converter, and have all the same functionality plus a lot more besides.

not to knock doepfer specifically but if you're after an affordable analog + midi step sequencer the Frostwave Fat controller cannot be beat. The Maq 16/3 doesn't even stand up to the the Frostwave at 3 x the price. I have never been more dissapointed and underwhelmed with a sequencer in my life than i was with the Doepfer Maq 16/3

most intuitive and fun analog sequencer i've ever used for under $1000 (you can pick these up for around $400)

it also has slides, which sound great for those 303 like sounds

  On 11/22/2011 at 4:43 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

for me it would be a lot more about getting off of the same computer I sit behind for 8-9 hours a day at work. I work at home, so it's become hard to make the differentiation between when I'm working and we I'm not.

 

It would be nice to be able to make something, anything, without being forced to look at a plasma screen. That's all really.

Yeah, good point. Though in this age of customisable interfaces, you could probably get some kind of midi setup going where you could record and trigger sequences without looking at the screen at all.

  On 11/22/2011 at 6:35 PM, StocKo said:

I totally get your point. I'm not spending that amount of time behind my computer but I just can't get 100% into my music when I'm in front of my computer - there's always something to disturb you from what you're doing and it just "breaks the workflow". But when I'm locked in my room in fronts of machines I'm way more efficient.

Also a good point. Lately though I've been closing all of my applications except for Buzz/Reaper when making music; previously I'd have my gmail/facebook open in a minimised Firefox window which would be quite a distraction. Now with everything closed I can spend hours working on a track without any outside distractions—sometimes I even forget to eat, hahah.

  On 11/22/2011 at 5:57 PM, Ascdi said:

I've never really used a MIDI delay / arp / harmonizer plugin that works the same way they do on the rm1x. But yes, MIDI plugins do exist.

I'm talking more about the environment though. You basically can build what ever you want right inside of logic.

There are also things like PD which can really make anything at all.

  On 11/22/2011 at 11:25 PM, modey said:

  On 11/22/2011 at 4:43 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

for me it would be a lot more about getting off of the same computer I sit behind for 8-9 hours a day at work. I work at home, so it's become hard to make the differentiation between when I'm working and we I'm not.

 

It would be nice to be able to make something, anything, without being forced to look at a plasma screen. That's all really.

Yeah, good point. Though in this age of customisable interfaces, you could probably get some kind of midi setup going where you could record and trigger sequences without looking at the screen at all.

The monome or Maschine is probably the closest thing to this, but i'd swing for a Monome if you want it to be more open ended and configurable

  On 11/22/2011 at 11:40 PM, slightlydrybeans said:

  On 11/22/2011 at 5:57 PM, Ascdi said:

I've never really used a MIDI delay / arp / harmonizer plugin that works the same way they do on the rm1x. But yes, MIDI plugins do exist.

 

I'm talking more about the environment though. You basically can build what ever you want right inside of logic.

 

There are also things like PD which can really make anything at all.

Sure, definitely. You can build whatever you want in C++, for that matter. But this thread is about old school sequencers.

The rm1x is pretty unique, especially when compared to modern software sequencers. Not because it can do things that are impossible elsewhere, but because it will make you think about things in a different way.

For MIDI sequencing, I would say the rm1x is better than the MPC. It's certainly more powerful. But you'll need external gear unless you want to sound like an rm1x dork-ass.

good luck finding a frostwave fat controller lol

  On 11/22/2011 at 10:59 PM, Gocab said:

yeah, the maschine mikro is out and it's very nice, you lose a bunch of rotary controllers, but everything else from the "full" version is there.

So would you say that Maschine Mikro > MPC 500 ? Have you experienced both of those machines ? Does it come w/ softwares included ? Do I need to be connected to a computer in order to have that Maschine working ? It might be my final choice so I try to get a bit more "aware"

About the rm1x...I don't really like the Yamaha Gear, I own a SU-700 sampler and don't really like its feeling, so if I had to pick one of those it would probably be the Alesis one.

Yes, it needs to be hooked up to a computer, and I don't think you NEED to look at the computer screen most of the time once you get to properly know it, but I sure did when I used it. It's probably a bad choice if you want to get away from the computer alltogether.

Machine comes with the maschine software which is basically a very simple and efficient (I'm thinking workflow here, not CPU load) DAW, step sequencer style, but can also be used as a vst in other DAWs. I've never used the MPC500, but I've used an MPC2000 (yeah the old one) quite a bit, and I'd say this is feels very much familiar in the way you can easily get a groove going, sample some shit on the fly, chop that up, tweak and add some effects and builda track in that way...

I'd try to get a hands on to see if it fits your production style, I've only used it at a friends studio, so I don't have a lot of insight in it, but I'm definitely picking one up in the near future. It only comes with the komplete "player" though, so you need your own vst's unless you like presets (the sampler and some usable effects and filters are built into the daw, so that's included of course, and there's apparently a big soundbank supplied, but I haven't touched it).

  On 11/23/2011 at 7:44 AM, BCM said:

good luck finding a frostwave fat controller lol

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Frostwave-Fat-Controller-Sequencer-mint-shape-/250938224593?pt=Studioequipment&hash=item3a6d156fd1

  On 11/23/2011 at 1:08 PM, Gocab said:

Yes, it needs to be hooked up to a computer, and I don't think you NEED to look at the computer screen most of the time once you get to properly know it, but I sure did when I used it. It's probably a bad choice if you want to get away from the computer alltogether.

 

Machine comes with the maschine software which is basically a very simple and efficient (I'm thinking workflow here, not CPU load) DAW, step sequencer style, but can also be used as a vst in other DAWs. I've never used the MPC500, but I've used an MPC2000 (yeah the old one) quite a bit, and I'd say this is feels very much familiar in the way you can easily get a groove going, sample some shit on the fly, chop that up, tweak and add some effects and builda track in that way...

 

I'd try to get a hands on to see if it fits your production style, I've only used it at a friends studio, so I don't have a lot of insight in it, but I'm definitely picking one up in the near future. It only comes with the komplete "player" though, so you need your own vst's unless you like presets (the sampler and some usable effects and filters are built into the daw, so that's included of course, and there's apparently a big soundbank supplied, but I haven't touched it).

Ok many thanks ! I saw a couple videos from Native Instruments. It's really impressive and has some interesting features (the automatic 16th cut of the loops for example) but I don't like the fact that it NECESSARILY has to be connected to a computer (even to load samples etc.)

I saw a pretty interesting offer for a MPC 500 but if I miss the deal I'm gonna look pretty close for a Maschine Mikro (MMT8 seems harder to find in my region, I need to dig the interwebs deeper).

  On 11/23/2011 at 1:56 PM, schlucharski said:

  On 11/23/2011 at 7:44 AM, BCM said:

good luck finding a frostwave fat controller lol

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item3a6d156fd1

ha fair enough!

  On 11/23/2011 at 8:07 PM, BCM said:

  On 11/23/2011 at 1:56 PM, schlucharski said:

  On 11/23/2011 at 7:44 AM, BCM said:

good luck finding a frostwave fat controller lol

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item3a6d156fd1

 

ha fair enough!

it's not bad though that this thing is ultra obscure, often some of the best and most powerful tools available get overshadowed by ones that were marketed better