antidepressants

I may have missed this already being said but, they use, or plan to use, ketamine on patients with any kind of head injury who become angry. Apparently this is the best thing to keep them the fuck calm. Has anyone come across this?

it's a anaesthetic that has been used for various purposes in a clinical setting. has been used on elderly and children because it is actually a rather safe drug for those purposes. has also been used in vetrinarian settings.

ketamine is just a relatively new drug overall. has allot of uses from medical to recreational. that's where controversy arises. the article above just states that research has show it to help with the chronically depressed, and that derivatives especially catered for that purpose are proven to have similar benefit.

I've seen in various places that psychedelics can work to change your thinking patterns and can improve your life in many ways, so they can probably be used as antidepressants in the right situations. Then again, they can freak you the fuck out too, so it's kind of a crapshoot.

i'm supposed to be on celexa right now for anxiety etc. but the thing is i'm too anxious about the side effects to pick them up loool

my mom takes Effexor... honestly I wouldn't take that drug in a million years, and I woulnd't ever recommend it to anybody. I can't believe she thinks it's actually helping her. blind I suppose.

I might go on Lithium or something soon, something like it... my moods are causing me problems. I have a really hard time staying consistent and I keep fucking up because I think I'm 'normal' then I head back into either depression or a sort of hyper active disregard for stuff. I've never thought I was manic depressive because when I read about Bipolar people their lives are fucking insane.

Still, I think I may have some lower form of it. Cyclothymia or rapid cycle. IDK! I remember going to many doctors and telling this old guy I thought I was Bipoloar, he said I was normal. and then the next doctor put me on 5 different medications. on and on. MEDS don't seem to help that much at all but I think a mood stabilzer might be a good choice for me to get my life on a steady path.

i'm taking Citalopram for ~8months now. should have taken it 15 years earlier, great effect BUT: it TOTALLY killed my libido.

yeah SSRIs have done nothing but have negative side effects for me (I've been on both Effexor and have recently tapered off of Zoloft). withdrawals are shitty, but I actually feel more normal these days..

I've been on Lamictal as well, but I don't recall it doing much for me either. maybe i wasn't on a proper dose

only other med aside from Ativan (typical benzo) that has gave positive results is Neurontin, which I still take today. For me it just picks my mood up in general, putting me in this talkative manic-like state.

I try not to be on too much of anything though.. being over-medicated sucks just the same as being under-medicated. at the moment however, I've been trying various supplements, none that I can say have an immediate effect, but hopefully the right combination will give me just what I need to be healthy

First and only time I've ever had Ativan was in a hospital. 2mg, which is apparently a rather large dose for your first time. It just made me disoriented.

The problem with benzos is that they're addictive and they are ineffective after a time.

I'm on Cymbalta and Lamictal right now, but I might try to get off of the Cymbalta because it seems like SSRIs don't help much (technically Cybalta is an SNRI but whatever). In fact, Cymbalta gave me hypomanic symptoms when I started taking it, which was really dangerous. Lamictal seems to be helping, though. Or maybe it's the Cymbalta; I guess I wouldn't know since I started both around the same time.

Did you ever notice that forums seem to have a ridiculously large number of people with mental disorders?

As a side note, Cymbalta dreams are really fun.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/07/09/antidepressants/index.html

Depression isn't some sort of disease or illness, it's just a normal response to modern lifestyle and the general way in which we treat each other. Taking anti-depressants isn't going to fix anything. I strongly suggest that anyone taking them stop immediately. (I was prescribed anti-depressants at one point; ruined my life.)

  On 2/15/2012 at 6:50 PM, HoA said:

http://www.cnn.com/2...ants/index.html

 

Depression isn't some sort of disease or illness, it's just a normal response to modern lifestyle and the general way in which we treat each other. Taking anti-depressants isn't going to fix anything. I strongly suggest that anyone taking them stop immediately. (I was prescribed anti-depressants at one point; ruined my life.)

how did it 'ruin your life'?

my girlfriend ruined my liiiiiife

  On 2/15/2012 at 6:50 PM, HoA said:

http://www.cnn.com/2...ants/index.html

 

Depression isn't some sort of disease or illness, it's just a normal response to modern lifestyle and the general way in which we treat each other. Taking anti-depressants isn't going to fix anything. I strongly suggest that anyone taking them stop immediately. (I was prescribed anti-depressants at one point; ruined my life.)

This isn't always true. When someone is depressed for several months to the point where they can barely get up in the morning, that's a problem. And sometimes it is an illness in a physical sense; my friend was experiencing depression, and after a series of tests figured out that his DHEA was really fucking low, which can cause severe depressive symptoms.

I don't, however, think that antidepressants are the best answer to this. SSRIs aren't going to help you regain DHEA very well; they'll just pump serotonin into your system, overcompensating in one area for a problem in the other.

  On 2/15/2012 at 6:50 PM, HoA said:

http://www.cnn.com/2...ants/index.html

 

Depression isn't some sort of disease or illness, it's just a normal response to modern lifestyle and the general way in which we treat each other. Taking anti-depressants isn't going to fix anything. I strongly suggest that anyone taking them stop immediately. (I was prescribed anti-depressants at one point; ruined my life.)

depression is a disease. the doctors in the article you linked are soulless idiots who get cash from big pharma to give expensive drugs to normal people--obviously, if you don't have depression, you can't be treated for it, so taking anti-depressants is a terrible idea. that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who do, in fact, have chemical imbalances that are ruining their lives and need medication for it.

I very much regret having ever started on any SSRI or mood stabilizer. I was initially put on them in highschool after seeing a psychiatrist for the first time. but they did no such "physical test" to even find if my depression/anxiety was caused by something else. I have always been told through my ordinary physicals that I am healthy in that regard, but see, psychological diagnosis and treatment is incredibly hit or miss. essentially you see a person for fifteen to thirty minutes a month, and from a brief overview of how you're feeling, they prescribe powerful drugs hoping to "fix" the problem. i feel like a damn lab rat or guinea pig with it. maybe if they could pin point with accuracy where the problem lies in specific people, I would be more convinced. as of now however, it's just a common solution targeted at altering serotonin release with various prescribed meds. for one, they don't even know if that's the prime concern in most people, and two, even if that is the problem, their method of finding the best med is vague at best.

at this point, talk therapy has proven to be the best at figuring exactly where my problem might be. but even with that, I still feel fucking abnormal in comparison to people who fly through life in absence of anxiety relief. I pisses me off, because I know how it feels to be anxiety free.. but I have yet to experience that freedom with anything less then recreational drugs or addictive substances like benzos

maybe I just have to give it more time, but ffs, the world doesn't just stop for me to get my shit together. I still need to function in the real world.

anyway.. that's my rant. I'll still be going to work tomorrow, and attending classes next week, and trying to maintain some form of a social life... but sometimes it helps to complain about yourself. fuck

  On 2/15/2012 at 6:50 PM, HoA said:

Depression isn't some sort of disease or illness, it's just a normal response to modern lifestyle and the general way in which we treat each other.

I think that it is a combination. Some people have (greater than the average) neurological/physiological predispositions for the depression development (they're depression-prone, roughly said), and then under certain lifestyle factors, such as stress, tiredness, nervousness, fear, anxiety (something which doesn't lack in this modern world) depression occurs, or, to be more precise, manifests on a greater scale than at the other "normal" individuals. I don't think anybody is completely normal. There's always a certain chemical imbalance, neurological imperfection in each one of us, but there are those in whom these are greater than the average. This in my opinion relates to the mental disorders in general. Interesting fact is when you realize that people who are in mental institutions (some of them) will hardly ever leave them, because they would be put back in the lifestyle/environment which caused their disease to manifest and make them unfunctionable in the first place, so to them these places could be a retreat, a sort of.

So, I don't think that taking antidepressants is wrong, but the lifestyle/environment is also very important. I believe that everybody should have a complete medical examination of his brain, and this should be done regularly, just like, in fact, the complete medical examination of the body. But then again it all costs.... :)

If medical results show that somebody is depression-prone, then antidepressants should be useful. I am not an expert about antidepressants, but what I want to say is that if someone has a greater than the average predisposition for a certain disease development, he should take a medicine for that. That's obvious, just as diabetes sufferers take insulin for example. And now we get to the second part - lifestyle/environment. This is where the core problem lies, in my opinion - this modern, greedy world is practically an infinite source of stress, anxiety etc. And it all eventually ends on people's own moral/ethical development, but this is a topic for itself.

My point here was simply the general (maybe ideal) approach how to treat a certain disorder. The fact that the pharmaceutical industries are greedy and medicines aren't as good/useful as they should be because of the moneysaving reasons again ends up eventually on good ol' moral/ethical development of each individiual. But then again, as I already said, that's a topic for itself.

  On 2/16/2012 at 9:57 AM, xxx said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 9:33 AM, Freak of the week said:

I believe that everybody should have a complete medical examination of his brain, and this should be done regularly, just like, in fact, the complete medical examination of the body. But then again it all costs.... :)

It's not the cost--it's the non-existence of such a test. Day by day, we get closer to a comprehensive picture of neurology and behavior but it's woefully inadequate. Even our best imaging techniques like fMRI still only signal what part of the brain is taking up the most glucose. There is literally nothing else you can say beyond that that isn't speculation or hypotheses. Even more "visible" neurological disorders like multiple sclerosis do not have a 1:1 diagnosotic-to-clinical presentation.

I've never said that the medicine is perfect (because then we would have the cure for all diseases basically, wouldn't we?), but still, examinations, no matter how imperfect they are, are still a LOT better than no examinations at all, don't you think so? After all, we are always dealing with models in the science (and so in medicine), and our goal is to get better and better models. And again we could go to the subject of its own: Whether there is an ultimate truth or not. Scientifically, such an idea has no meaning, because we're always dealing with models in science, and our aim is to get better and better models - the more and more precise, accurate description of the reality. We make experiments and see whether a certain theory holds, and if it doesn't, we modify it so that it holds. Better theory means better, more precise apparatus.

When I mentioned complete examination I meant the best examination current medicine/technology can provide us with.

  On 2/16/2012 at 10:36 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

imo there's two types of depression:

 

-> a normal reaction to all the bullshit that goes on in the world around you

and/or

-> a normal reaction to some really fucked up personal shit that's been going on in your life

No, there really are some people who have depression because of chemical imbalances. When people, for no discernible reason, get major depressive episodes that last for months at a time where they can't even get themselves out of bed or feed themselves, this is not a "normal reaction" to something in your life.

Thank you, Mosh Gear Fox.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tghUh4ubbg

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:15 AM, Hoodie said:

depression is a disease. the doctors in the article you linked are soulless idiots who get cash from big pharma to give expensive drugs to normal people--obviously, if you don't have depression, you can't be treated for it, so taking anti-depressants is a terrible idea. that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who do, in fact, have chemical imbalances that are ruining their lives and need medication for it.

Please realize that most people prescribed antidepressants just go to a psychiatrist because they feel sad, the psychiatrist asks some questions then prescribes the medication. How could they possibly know if you had the "chemical imbalance"? If you have a chemical imbalance it's probably because of your diet, not some defect. Also, they don't know how antidepressants work, they just think they work in a particular way. Those drugs can't cure anything, they only create more problems.

How can these so called "experts" understand you after a few questions when they barely understand themselves. Ironically, a lot of those "experts" take the same medications. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7400103 ) If they knew anything of any value, shouldn't they be happy?

"Physician, heal thyself."

  On 2/16/2012 at 1:48 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 12:09 PM, gmanyo said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 10:36 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

imo there's two types of depression:

 

-> a normal reaction to all the bullshit that goes on in the world around you

and/or

-> a normal reaction to some really fucked up personal shit that's been going on in your life

 

No, there really are some people who have depression because of chemical imbalances. When people, for no discernible reason, get major depressive episodes that last for months at a time where they can't even get themselves out of bed or feed themselves, this is not a "normal reaction" to something in your life.

i would consider this more of a deeper medical condition where depression is a symptom of said condition rather than the actual problem itself. the science and evidence on this sorta stuff is pretty vague. i agree with HoA: what causes the imbalance in the first place?

 

doctors seem to be overly eager to explain all types of depression as a chemical imbalance which simply is not true. i'm talking more about the depression which is more on an emotional level rather than a chemical one anyhow.

 

also that video was sorta funny...and that chemotherapy cream looks pretty nasty. good thing i'm not high at the moment or that'd make me a bit edgy.

Then we're just arguing definitions, which is rather pointless. When psychologists say "depression", they're generally referring to the sort of thing that I was talking about; most counselors will tell you that sadness is an important part of life, but depression is usually considered to be more than that. For the purpose of this discussion, I suggest we use the word "depression" as being the pathological disorder, and "sadness" as day to day reactions to life problems or just moments of feeling "down".

Even if depression is a reaction to external stimuli (such as persistent stress), it is often out of proportion and continues past the presence of the cause. And sometimes the cause is internal, like genetics, or even diet (though I guess diet is somewhat external). Many people have a genetic melancholic disposition, so it could be that their lean toward negative reactions causes depressive symptoms after small to moderate disturbances. I assume that depression most often results from a combination of many things.

Note that people with depression might not even describe it as being sad; they'll often say it's like feeling nothing at all.

I do somewhat agree with you, though, because I think everyday sadness can sometimes be mistaken for depression, and people who don't need medication end up with it anyway. But there really are people with a pathological sadness problem, and that's what we call "depression".

  On 2/16/2012 at 2:53 PM, gmanyo said:

Then we're just arguing definitions, which is rather pointless. When psychologists say "depression", they're generally referring to the sort of thing that I was talking about; most counselors will tell you that sadness is an important part of life, but depression is usually considered to be more than that. For the purpose of this discussion, I suggest we use the word "depression" as being the pathological disorder, and "sadness" as day to day reactions to life problems or just moments of feeling "down".

 

Even if depression is a reaction to external stimuli (such as persistent stress), it is often out of proportion and continues past the presence of the cause. And sometimes the cause is internal, like genetics, or even diet (though I guess diet is somewhat external). Many people have a genetic melancholic disposition, so it could be that their lean toward negative reactions causes depressive symptoms after small to moderate disturbances. I assume that depression most often results from a combination of many things.

 

Note that people with depression might not even describe it as being sad; they'll often say it's like feeling nothing at all.

 

I do somewhat agree with you, though, because I think everyday sadness can sometimes be mistaken for depression, and people who don't need medication end up with it anyway. But there really are people with a pathological sadness problem, and that's what we call "depression".

So can you please explain what exactly these "chemical imbalances" are?

Here is something to consider. Do animals have "mental illnesses"? How can they?

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:40 PM, HoA said:

So can you please explain what exactly these "chemical imbalances" are?

 

Here is something to consider. Do animals have "mental illnesses"? How can they?

My friend has low DHEA, most likely from cumulative stress, but even though the stress is gone the problem remains. This imbalance caused him to be unable to concentrate, and he had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning. He wasn't able to figure out why he was depressed until extensive testing was done on him. Some people have low serotonin (which means that SSRIs might actually be a decent option for them).

I assume other species get mental illnesses. Dogs are prone to separation anxiety when living with humans, though this isn't so much a mental disorder as a response to a disruption of their natural habitat. I've heard of dogs that need medication so that they don't go crazy when left trapped alone in rooms for more than a minute or two.

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:44 PM, gmanyo said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:40 PM, HoA said:

So can you please explain what exactly these "chemical imbalances" are?

 

Here is something to consider. Do animals have "mental illnesses"? How can they?

 

My friend has low DHEA, most likely from cumulative stress, but even though the stress is gone the problem remains. This imbalance caused him to be unable to concentrate, and he had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning. He wasn't able to figure out why he was depressed until extensive testing was done on him. Some people have low serotonin (which means that SSRIs might actually be a decent option for them).

 

I assume other species get mental illnesses. Dogs are prone to separation anxiety when living with humans, though this isn't so much a mental disorder as a response to a disruption of their natural habitat. I've heard of dogs that need medication so that they don't go crazy when left trapped alone in rooms for more than a minute or two.

http://chriskresser.com/the-chemical-imbalance-myth

It's a very lucrative business, they prescribe you something to "fix" one of your problems which then, in turn, creates another problem which they then medicate with something else and so on and so on.

i did a (horrible) presentation of this article which is very on topic, namely senseless american psychotropic pill gobbling and corporate interest and so on.

have a read ya'll: http://www.palgrave-journals.com/biosoc/journal/v1/n3/pdf/biosoc200626a.pdf

  On 2/16/2012 at 9:57 AM, xxx said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 9:33 AM, Freak of the week said:

I believe that everybody should have a complete medical examination of his brain, and this should be done regularly, just like, in fact, the complete medical examination of the body. But then again it all costs.... :)

It's not the cost--it's the non-existence of such a test. Day by day, we get closer to a comprehensive picture of neurology and behavior but it's woefully inadequate. Even our best imaging techniques like fMRI still only signal what part of the brain is taking up the most glucose. There is literally nothing else you can say beyond that that isn't speculation or hypotheses. Even more "visible" neurological disorders like multiple sclerosis do not have a 1:1 diagnosotic-to-clinical presentation.

have you heard of diffusion tensor imaging? it can actually show the paths that neurons fire in. it's... pretty fucking amazing. here's a picture:

look up the human connectome project. they're working on mapping the whole brain. so exciting.

  On 2/16/2012 at 9:33 AM, Freak of the week said:

  On 2/15/2012 at 6:50 PM, HoA said:

Depression isn't some sort of disease or illness, it's just a normal response to modern lifestyle and the general way in which we treat each other.

 

I think that it is a combination. Some people have (greater than the average) neurological/physiological predispositions for the depression development (they're depression-prone, roughly said), and then under certain lifestyle factors, such as stress, tiredness, nervousness, fear, anxiety (something which doesn't lack in this modern world) depression occurs, or, to be more precise, manifests on a greater scale than at the other "normal" individuals. I don't think anybody is completely normal. There's always a certain chemical imbalance, neurological imperfection in each one of us, but there are those in whom these are greater than the average. This in my opinion relates to the mental disorders in general. Interesting fact is when you realize that people who are in mental institutions (some of them) will hardly ever leave them, because they would be put back in the lifestyle/environment which caused their disease to manifest and make them unfunctionable in the first place, so to them these places could be a retreat, a sort of.

yeah, i totally agree with this. it's one of the first things you learn in psychology: you are a function of both environment and genetics. it'd be silly to ignore either of them when trying to assess what is going on with a person.

i just wanted to point out that depression is a disease, not a "phase" like some people think. you can't just snap out of it. sometimes chemical intervention is needed (here's what i left out) in combination with therapy.