antidepressants

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:44 PM, gmanyo said:

This imbalance caused him to be unable to concentrate, and he had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning.

 

lol welcome to real life mate. i guess i must be severely depressed. get me some meds STAT.

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:40 PM, HoA said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 2:53 PM, gmanyo said:

Then we're just arguing definitions, which is rather pointless. When psychologists say "depression", they're generally referring to the sort of thing that I was talking about; most counselors will tell you that sadness is an important part of life, but depression is usually considered to be more than that. For the purpose of this discussion, I suggest we use the word "depression" as being the pathological disorder, and "sadness" as day to day reactions to life problems or just moments of feeling "down".

 

Even if depression is a reaction to external stimuli (such as persistent stress), it is often out of proportion and continues past the presence of the cause. And sometimes the cause is internal, like genetics, or even diet (though I guess diet is somewhat external). Many people have a genetic melancholic disposition, so it could be that their lean toward negative reactions causes depressive symptoms after small to moderate disturbances. I assume that depression most often results from a combination of many things.

 

Note that people with depression might not even describe it as being sad; they'll often say it's like feeling nothing at all.

 

I do somewhat agree with you, though, because I think everyday sadness can sometimes be mistaken for depression, and people who don't need medication end up with it anyway. But there really are people with a pathological sadness problem, and that's what we call "depression".

 

So can you please explain what exactly these "chemical imbalances" are?

 

Here is something to consider. Do animals have "mental illnesses"? How can they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Biological

the animal question is kinda sticky because we can't exactly talk to animals to diagnose them and we don't entirely understand their behavior (you can't just anthropomorphize them).

however, i don't think animals are the issue at hand.

  On 2/16/2012 at 10:36 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

imo there's two types of depression:

 

-> a normal reaction to all the bullshit that goes on in the world around you

and/or

-> a normal reaction to some really fucked up personal shit that's been going on in your life

 

i get the impression that 75% of "depression" cases fall into the category of the former rather than the latter. most of it seems to be a way of pushing drugs onto people that really ought to be depressed...be it because they are in a shitty, boring job or they are just bothered by the (imo) soulless attitudes of the majority of decision makers and power brokers on this here planet. it all depends on your perspective but i don't consider them mentally ill...in fact i consider them more normal than a lot of the uptight asshole suits that make most of the choices for us as a society. before this turns into a rant about my personal politics, i'll just leave you with a couple of paraphrased quotes

you really don't know what you're talking about. not to be a bitch, but it seems like everyone has an uninformed opinion on psychology because it's a "soft science" that we all have personal experience with while i doubt you'd be as quickly to opine on things like astrophysics or bioengineering. the way you define depression (sounds like a general level of apathy) is completely different to how psychologists define it. depression requires FUNCTIONAL IMPAIRMENT. some apathetic office worker that gets his shit done on time but likes complaining about how terrible his life is does not have depression. his coworker, the guy that can barely get out of bed in the morning because he feels so tired and hopeless, bursts into tears in his office sometimes, even though he's been getting promoted and has nothing bad happening in his life, probably has depression.

here, do some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Diagnosis

inform yourself.

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:08 PM, BCM said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 3:44 PM, gmanyo said:

This imbalance caused him to be unable to concentrate, and he had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning.

 

 

lol welcome to real life mate. i guess i must be severely depressed. get me some meds STAT.

wow... you're a prick.

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:14 PM, Hoodie said:

the way you define depression (sounds like a general level of apathy) is completely different to how psychologists define it. depression requires FUNCTIONAL IMPAIRMENT.

Exactly, if you don't fall in line with everyone else, "there must be something wrong with you". It's a similar situation to ADD. How many of your friends "had" ADD?

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:21 PM, HoA said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:14 PM, Hoodie said:

the way you define depression (sounds like a general level of apathy) is completely different to how psychologists define it. depression requires FUNCTIONAL IMPAIRMENT.

 

Exactly, if you don't fall in line with everyone else, "there must be something wrong with you". It's a similar situation to ADD. How many of your friends "had" ADD?

i agree that overdiagnosis is a definite problem in today's society, but i feel like you think a lot of these disorders are "fake."

do you think that schizophrenics are also "faking?" they don't fall in line with everyone else either. they do have definite functional impairment.

is it society's problem or is it they who have an illness? are we just exaggerating their problems? should we just get them off meds and tell them to get over it and change their lifestyle?

that obviously doesn't work: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/view/

i think you don't understand what functional impairment is: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2691163/

it's not exactly "not falling in line" with everyone else. it's an inability to function properly that causes a detriment in the quality of one's life. helping the mentally ill isn't about making them into good worker bees--it's about improving their lives so they can do with them as they wish.

that marketing of madness docu is so horribly biased im now convinced to make an appointment to get meds immediately

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:38 PM, Hoodie said:

i agree that overdiagnosis is a definite problem in today's society, but i feel like you think a lot of these disorders are "fake."

I think these "disorders" are labels for reactions people have to situations. They definitely have a problem which is causing their depression, but poisons aren't going to fix it. They already consume way too many chemicals in the food and water supply, do they really need more?

Do you take medication?

"If all the medicine in the world were thrown into the sea, it would be bad for the fish and good for humanity" O.W. Holmes, (Prof. of Med. Harvard University)

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:14 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 5:08 PM, BCM said:

lol welcome to real life mate. i guess i must be severely depressed. get me some meds STAT.

 

wow... you're a prick.

predictable response is predictable. i think you should stop taking yourself so seriously.

the definition of illness is not really the issue i think, it could be left up to the individual. someone could call the troubles of getting out of bed a disease and decide that he needs treatment, there's nothing wrong with it. the problem is the dominance of the pharmaceutical treatment clusterfuck that pushes all the alternatives far away from the conscience.

  On 2/16/2012 at 6:31 PM, eugene said:

the definition of illness is not really the issue i think, it could be left up to the individual. someone could call the troubles of getting out of bed a disease and decide that he needs treatment, there's nothing wrong with it. the problem is the dominance of the pharmaceutical treatment clusterfuck that pushes all the alternatives far away from the conscience.

*consciousness

Just curious, how many of you are actually studying or have studied cognitive neuroscience, therapy, or clinical psychology? Because all I'm seeing is quotations from other vague, second-hand sources or links to youtube videos. I know most of you are non-chalantly skirting the subject, or even indulging for the sake of, but the ones here who are actually arguing their opinion aren't even providing credible sources to back them up....

Sorry, but documentaries on youtube aren't the best of way saying "I'm right, you're wrong"

dialogicargumentation.pdfFetching info...

  On 2/16/2012 at 11:57 PM, tontonz said:

Just curious, how many of you are actually studying or have studied cognitive neuroscience, therapy, or clinical psychology? Because all I'm seeing is quotations from other vague, second-hand sources or links to youtube videos. I know most of you are non-chalantly skirting the subject, or even indulging for the sake of, but the ones here who are actually arguing their opinion aren't even providing credible sources to back them up....

Sorry, but documentaries on youtube aren't the best of way saying "I'm right, you're wrong"

that's a good point. most of the information i learned has been from textbooks on the subject (undergrad psych student here), so it's a lot easier for me to link to wikipedia instead of digging up relevant papers or quotes for people who have no interest in trying to understand my viewpoint. i guess it would help if i was more knowledgeable about depression as well--it's just not something i have read about a lot compared to other topics in psychology.

personally, i'm waiting for xxx to respond to this thread again. he is wise.

  On 2/16/2012 at 11:57 PM, tontonz said:

Just curious, how many of you are actually studying or have studied cognitive neuroscience, therapy, or clinical psychology? Because all I'm seeing is quotations from other vague, second-hand sources or links to youtube videos. I know most of you are non-chalantly skirting the subject, or even indulging for the sake of, but the ones here who are actually arguing their opinion aren't even providing credible sources to back them up....

Sorry, but documentaries on youtube aren't the best of way saying "I'm right, you're wrong"

Ironically, no one on the other side of this argument, in this thread, has posted any links that were on topic besides Wikipedia articles.

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392

http://www.commercialalert.org/issues/health/drug-marketing/drugs-companies-inventing-diseases-to-boost-their-profits

http://courses.csusm.edu/fallacies/invincible_ignorance.htm

  On 2/17/2012 at 4:30 AM, HoA said:

  On 2/16/2012 at 11:57 PM, tontonz said:

Just curious, how many of you are actually studying or have studied cognitive neuroscience, therapy, or clinical psychology? Because all I'm seeing is quotations from other vague, second-hand sources or links to youtube videos. I know most of you are non-chalantly skirting the subject, or even indulging for the sake of, but the ones here who are actually arguing their opinion aren't even providing credible sources to back them up....

Sorry, but documentaries on youtube aren't the best of way saying "I'm right, you're wrong"

 

Ironically, no one on the other side of this argument, in this thread, has posted any links that were on topic besides Wikipedia articles.

 

http://www.plosmedic...al.pmed.0020392

 

http://www.commercia...t-their-profits

 

http://courses.csusm...e_ignorance.htm

I'm gunna look at these tomorrow when I'm finally done with my week, but thanks for at least providing some journal articles that I can critically analyze. This is what this kind of thread truly should be about anyway if you are serious about debating.

i've been hit by some depression this week or two.

its more just a lack of enjoyment and feeling, i wouldn't quite call it a reaction. then it turns into a mindfuck, like what is there to feel good about anyway? it's a misinterpretation of reality.

just going through the motions, losing touch with the good part of myself. falling into traps.

some days are good, you feel normal and you walk through places not feeling "disconnected" or whatever it may be

then other days are blurry, without reason. weeks pass like that, and nothing has happened. i'm trying to get out of this, maybe start djing. i need to do something.

Once I forgot to take my Cymbalta and I had vertigo the whole day and it was fucking awful. One other time I ran out for two days and then had insane crazy emotions and felt like getting into fights and went back to self injury for the first time in awhile. It was fucking insane towards the end of the second day.

I have lots of emotions and often it's a problem. I think the worst is when they get all locked up from not coming out and then I don't know what they are anymore. The only solution that consistently works is to spend time focusing on how each emotion feels in my body and then writing about it as much as I can. I would be interested to know if this works for anyone else.

You could cary a pocket notebook around with you to write your mood and the events surrounding it at different times to see if it has triggers, what they are, what situations have the most negative or positive emotions attached to them, and see what times of day are correlated with certain emotions.

  On 5/2/2012 at 5:47 PM, A/D said:

I have lots of emotions and often it's a problem. I think the worst is when they get all locked up from not coming out and then I don't know what they are anymore. The only solution that consistently works is to spend time focusing on how each emotion feels in my body and then writing about it as much as I can. I would be interested to know if this works for anyone else.

it doesn't work for me. i wear a mask of reason and rationality to avoid facing that impregnable mindfield.

  On 5/2/2012 at 5:51 PM, iep said:

  On 5/2/2012 at 5:47 PM, A/D said:

I have lots of emotions and often it's a problem. I think the worst is when they get all locked up from not coming out and then I don't know what they are anymore. The only solution that consistently works is to spend time focusing on how each emotion feels in my body and then writing about it as much as I can. I would be interested to know if this works for anyone else.

 

it doesn't work for me. i wear a mask of reason and rationality to avoid facing that impregnable mindfield.

heh. yeah that stopped working for me, was the thing.

thanks gmanyo, that is surely possible, and writing more is never a bad thing. what I like most about it is that it seems to let me get the unwanted stuff out of my head and let me focus on what I want to do. which = best!

  On 5/2/2012 at 5:50 PM, gmanyo said:

You could cary a pocket notebook around with you to write your mood and the events surrounding it at different times to see if it has triggers, what they are, what situations have the most negative or positive emotions attached to them, and see what times of day are correlated with certain emotions.

recording your behavior is actually highly effective and the first step in the self-directed change process. it brings things into your conscious awareness that you never would have noticed before.

So, I've been continually increasing my exercise amounts, and eating healthier and healthier, and honestly I feel better than I ever did on antidepressants. I'm not saying I don't get depressed, but it feels less intense, and doesn't last as long. It feels like I am cleansing my mind every time I push myself physically. I wish I had understood this at a younger age.

im gonna rant here

i missed an appointment with my psychiatrist today to see how new meds were working out because to be frank they ARENT really working out and i missed the appointment because i am sleeping 2 hours a night and am so fucking scatterbrained and crazy that i can barely remember my own name let alone an appointment that i set up three weeks ago and now she wants to charge me $142 to NOT see her when i am uninsured and can't really afford to actually SEE her in the FIRST fucking place. that is more than the fucking appointment would have cost.

Now, my view on antidepressants is that they are a necessary evil for the most desperate 10% of people affected with depression to give them the kick they need to help themselves. They are horribly overprescribed and it's quite scary how readily a doctor will write that script for you with little to no questions asked.

When I was taking them, I had these manic episodes, where basically my Id would take over and I would shoplift or steal from people and start all kinds of shit with no regard to the consequences. I was a conniving bastard, but I guess that was a latent side to me anyway.

  On 5/2/2012 at 9:16 PM, disparaissant said:

im gonna rant here

i missed an appointment with my psychiatrist today to see how new meds were working out because to be frank they ARENT really working out and i missed the appointment because i am sleeping 2 hours a night and am so fucking scatterbrained and crazy that i can barely remember my own name let alone an appointment that i set up three weeks ago and now she wants to charge me $142 to NOT see her when i am uninsured and can't really afford to actually SEE her in the FIRST fucking place. that is more than the fucking appointment would have cost.

real talk. i was in this same situation a few months back. you'll have to make a decision immediately as to whether financial wellbeing or mental wellbeing is your first goal. Personally I chose to forsake the psych for the time being, and I seem to be doing ok with it.

In a weird way being overworked has helped my mental state...there literally is no time to get depressed....more feelings of anger than anything else.