Religion

  Quote

Christianity is not a self improvement program and going to church is not done for support. Church is for receiving the Eucharist and keeping holy the Sabbath. Gmanyo.. if you are having doubts, why not set some time aside for speaking with a priest? He will answer your questions better than even the most well spoken memebers on this board.

I say this in the least harsh way. The purpose of the church is outlined in Acts 2:42-47. If you are going to church and aren't improving yourself, there is something wrong, because one of the ways believers are sanctified is through fellowship. Partaking in the lord's supper and keeping the sabbath holy is a small part of church, because church isn't just on Sundays. The Church is the people, not the building, and it's a life you live, not an event you attend.

I agree and was referring to church, the location. I should have thought out my comment more anyways.

  On 4/18/2012 at 6:16 PM, RandySicko said:

I agree and was referring to church, the location. I should have thought out my comment more anyways.

yeah, and what you said also holds merit also, because Christianity isn't about feeling good, its about risking and suffering. it certainly isn't about being part of some dominant majority of people who live lives of luxury and sit above everyone else, telling them what is and isn't right.

seems I've had it wrong all along! I always thought it was about making friends with hookers...

  On 4/18/2012 at 5:48 PM, RandySicko said:

Christianity is not a self improvement program and going to church is not done for support. Church is for receiving the Eucharist and keeping holy the Sabbath. Gmanyo.. if you are having doubts, why not set some time aside for speaking with a priest? He will answer your questions better than even the most well spoken memebers on this board.

Well, I'm not Catholic, so I doubt I'll be seeing a priest anytime soon. I'd argue that your picture of Christianity is pretty far off from the real thing if you lay such a heavy emphasis on communion and sabbath. The church is all Christians as a whole anyway; "church" as a weekly meeting where you listen to a teaching isn't specifically prescribed in the New Testament (yes, meetings and teachings are important, as well as communion, but there aren't many specifics on how meetings should be carried out).

  On 4/18/2012 at 5:50 PM, sheatheman said:

You probably know this gmanyo, but Jesus is either crazy, evil, or he is who he says he is. So as christians, we should either follow him with everything, or completely renounce it. Revelation 3:16 "So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."

The Jesus, lunatic, liar argument is a sort of three-way false dilemma. I think the common belief among atheists is that he was a real person, possibly even crucified, but the stories about him are mostly false.

Also, I think that that interpretation of Rev 3:16 is incorrect. Back in Roman times, there were these great hot springs and great cold springs in different locations (not going to bother telling cities; don't want to get that far into it). These were both really good. Laodicea, however, had no natural water sources, and had to pump water in from aqueducts. By the time it reached the city, it was lukewarm and really gross. "Hot" and "cold" are both good things in this passage; I think they refer to different talents and purposes within the church. The whole "either be all for it or all against it" thing is not only not in the passage, but also a bit off anyway; it's better to be a Christian who doesn't follow much than to be someone who hates Christianity.

Frankly, the idea of "hot" being "spiritually hot" and "cold" being "spiritually cold" is a modern idea. Hot and cold were just temperatures back then. We only compare them because of our view of the words in the English language.

  On 4/18/2012 at 6:30 PM, sheatheman said:

yeah, and what you said also holds merit also, because Christianity isn't about feeling good, its about risking and suffering. it certainly isn't about being part of some dominant majority of people who live lives of luxury and sit above everyone else, telling them what is and isn't right.

I don't know if Christianity is necessarily "about" risking and suffering, but Christianity clearly states that suffering is an important part of growth.

edit:

  On 4/18/2012 at 6:47 PM, lumpenprol said:

seems I've had it wrong all along! I always thought it was about making friends with hookers...

You might actually be the closest one. That's what Jesus did.

I still dont get why in this day and age why people accept a system of control thats soley based around the human awareness/fear of ones own mortality and random metaphorical claptrap based on very few facts of reality. Is it because they are forced fed it from the time they can speak and follow like sheep? Religion didnt put a man on the moon, create medicine, or invent the pocket computer im now communicating on.

Religion sets its own ideals which is mainly to destroy the existence and purpose of the individual and bombarding you with how worthless you and people are next to a higher source you cant comprehend and which curiously has no effect on anything in the real world whatsoever.

These social systems were created from a time where people still thought the earth was flat by people for the sole purpose controlling masses of other people for their own gain and power without the need of policing or money. Sure you can say religion dragged us from the stone age but now creates nothing more than its own stagnent self puropse which isnt going to save this planet the way its going and is mainly controlled by people wanting the same ole money and power who you can hardly say answer to god as such.

Maybe there's too many stupid people in this world but religion is the biggest inhibiting skam the human race has fallen for imho.

  On 4/18/2012 at 6:52 PM, gmanyo said:

Well, I'm not Catholic, so I doubt I'll be seeing a priest anytime soon. I'd argue that your picture of Christianity is pretty far off from the real thing if you lay such a heavy emphasis on communion and sabbath. The church is all Christians as a whole anyway; "church" as a weekly meeting where you listen to a teaching isn't specifically prescribed in the New Testament (yes, meetings and teachings are important, as well as communion, but there aren't many specifics on how meetings should be carried out).

You don't have to be of Catholic demonination to speak with a priest. Regarding the Catholic Church though...

“Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.

  On 4/18/2012 at 6:54 PM, soundwave said:

I still dont get why in this day and age why people accept a system of control thats soley based around the human awareness/fear of ones own mortality and random metaphorical claptrap based on very few facts of reality. Is it because they are forced fed it from the time they can speak and follow like sheep? Religion didnt put a man on the moon, create medicine, or invent the pocket computer im now communicating on.

Religion sets its own ideals which is mainly to destroy the existence and purpose of the individual and bombarding you with how worthless you and people are next to a higher source you cant comprehend and which curiously has no effect on anything in the real world whatsoever.

These social systems were created from a time where people still thought the earth was flat by people for the sole purpose controlling masses of other people for their own gain and power without the need of policing or money. Sure you can say religion dragged us from the stone age but now creates nothing more than its own stagnent self puropse which isnt going to save this planet the way its going and is mainly controlled by people wanting the same ole money and power who you can hardly say answer to god as such.

 

 

Maybe there's too many stupid people in this world but religion is the biggest inhibiting skam the human race has fallen for imho.

What's your dad been up to these days?

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:03 PM, RandySicko said:

You don't have to be of Catholic demonination to speak with a priest. Regarding the Catholic Church though...

 

“Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.

"Church" means the entire body of believers. There is only one body; all Christians are part of the church. We are not separated. The view of one line of teachers able to trace themselves back to the apostles as being the "true church" is almost completely opposed to Christ establishing one church. I mean, Paul started churches (as in, specific groups of Christians) in so many places and then left them and made clear points that Christ was the head of the church, not him or anyone else. I don't think he cared whether or not they could be traced to the apostles through him.

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

Others

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

So? It doesn't matter. The church is the entire body of Christians. All Christians are connected to Christ. Why would one specific church matter? I think it hinders Christianity to claim that only one church is the "true" church.

How adorable, the my club is better than your club bickering has already started.

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:41 PM, azatoth said:

How adorable, the my club is better than your club bickering has already started.

My dick is longest so I'm right.

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:37 PM, gmanyo said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

 

So? It doesn't matter. The church is the entire body of Christians. All Christians are connected to Christ. Why would one specific church matter? I think it hinders Christianity to claim that only one church is the "true" church.

It does matter because Jesus gave his authority to the Apostles to rule and teach.

He that heareth you, heareth Me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth Me; and he that despiseth Me, despiseth Him that sent Me." (Luke 10:16)

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

yeah, no. the eastern orthodox church is the oldest christian church. it traces its roots back to christ.

the catholic church broke off the eastern orthodox church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:50 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

 

yeah, no. the eastern orthodox church is the oldest christian church. it traces its roots back to christ.

 

the catholic church broke off the eastern orthodox church: http://en.wikipedia....ast-West_Schism

The Second Vatican Council used the term "church" in reference to Orthodox churches because, although separated from the Catholic Church, they have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they "lack something in their condition as particular churches" because they are not in union with the pope.

Neeeeext

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:59 PM, RandySicko said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:50 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

 

yeah, no. the eastern orthodox church is the oldest christian church. it traces its roots back to christ.

 

the catholic church broke off the eastern orthodox church: http://en.wikipedia....ast-West_Schism

 

The Second Vatican Council used the term "church" in reference to Orthodox churches because, although separated from the Catholic Church, they have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they "lack something in their condition as particular churches" because they are not in union with the pope.

 

 

Neeeeext

ah, so because they never had a pope, they don't count as a real church. you realize all the protestants you named could say the same thing about catholicism, right? "well, catholicism is technically a church, but our council has ruled that their lack of golden tablets and/or beards for all their priests means they lack something so they're not real christians, lol"

i'm sorry that it offends you that orthodox christians consider JESUS the highest authority and not some kiddy fiddler with an ugly hat--that just means they're REAL CHRISTIANS (unlike you)!!!!!

  On 4/18/2012 at 8:26 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:59 PM, RandySicko said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:50 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

 

yeah, no. the eastern orthodox church is the oldest christian church. it traces its roots back to christ.

 

the catholic church broke off the eastern orthodox church: http://en.wikipedia....ast-West_Schism

 

The Second Vatican Council used the term "church" in reference to Orthodox churches because, although separated from the Catholic Church, they have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they "lack something in their condition as particular churches" because they are not in union with the pope.

 

 

Neeeeext

 

ah, so because they never had a pope, they don't count as a real church. you realize all the protestants you named could say the same thing about catholicism, right? "well, catholicism is technically a church, but our council has ruled that their lack of golden tablets and/or beards for all their priests means they lack something so they're not real christians, lol"

 

i'm sorry that it offends you that orthodox christians consider JESUS the highest authority and not some kiddy fiddler with an ugly hat--that just means they're REAL CHRISTIANS (unlike you)!!!!!

lol u mad?

^ With all do respect, fuck that bullshit.

lol please merge with Skrillex and BT thread.

  On 4/18/2012 at 8:45 PM, RandySicko said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 8:26 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:59 PM, RandySicko said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:50 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 4/18/2012 at 7:30 PM, RandySicko said:

The Catholic Church is the only Christian church that can be traced back to Christ.

 

Others

 

Episcopalian - King Henry VIII - 1534 - England

Presbyterian - John Knox - 1560 - Scotland

Congregationalist - Robert Browne - 1583 - England

Baptist - John Smith - 1600 - Holland

Methodist - John Wesley- 1739 - England

Adventist - William Miller - 1831 - New York

Christian Scientist - Mary Baker Eddy - 1879 - Massachusetts

 

yeah, no. the eastern orthodox church is the oldest christian church. it traces its roots back to christ.

 

the catholic church broke off the eastern orthodox church: http://en.wikipedia....ast-West_Schism

 

The Second Vatican Council used the term "church" in reference to Orthodox churches because, although separated from the Catholic Church, they have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they "lack something in their condition as particular churches" because they are not in union with the pope.

 

 

Neeeeext

 

ah, so because they never had a pope, they don't count as a real church. you realize all the protestants you named could say the same thing about catholicism, right? "well, catholicism is technically a church, but our council has ruled that their lack of golden tablets and/or beards for all their priests means they lack something so they're not real christians, lol"

 

i'm sorry that it offends you that orthodox christians consider JESUS the highest authority and not some kiddy fiddler with an ugly hat--that just means they're REAL CHRISTIANS (unlike you)!!!!!

 

lol u mad?

not as mad as you should be that you're going to HELL for your catholic BLASPHEMY!!!!

  On 4/18/2012 at 5:43 PM, sheatheman said:

About God "letting" bad things happen and people sin. In the bible, God does have a plan. But that plan isn't one hundred percent set. People play a role in it-it's dynamic. Take for instance Abraham's plea for Sodom, in Genesis 18. God is planning to destroy it, but Abraham asks, "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?" Eventually God says if ten righteous men are found in the city, he will spare it.

Which is why we shouldn't pay attention to God if it exists: without human intervention he would keep on mass murdering for stupid reasons.

  Quote

The bible is filled with instances of God showing compassion and changing his mind. Why let people sin? You love your freedom, don't you? God loves you and gives it to you.

First, God changing his mind is a nonsense. God is omniscient and perfect. He knows everything. He can predict anything, unless he doesn't understand his own creation, and even if it made sense that God would create something he doesn't understand, why the fuck would he be judging it, since he doesn't understand it? Because he's a cunt? But I thought he was supposed to be good... No matter how hard you try, these abrahamic religions will not make sense. They have been corrected along the years to better match with science's factual data (shape of the Earth to name one). Everytime there is something stupid/inaccurate/completely wrong in the scriptures, there is a theologist that comes up with an explanation he made up. The same can be done with any invented story. It is true if, if, if and if.

Second, It is not only about our freedom to sin. When God lets cities be nuked in his name he is not only letting people sin, he is letting them mass murder, he is not preventing innocents from being killed in unspeakable ways. That said it mustn't be very important since he is himself a mass murder aficionado.

  Quote

Another thing I heard once, not sure what I think about it, is that God knows everything that exists and that has ever existed, but the future is something that simply does not exist yet, that there are trillions of variables converging every instant to create the future. He can have a very good idea what that future will be, he can plan what that future will be, but it doesn't exist yet, and what doesn't exist cannot be known.

I replied that already. God doesn't understand his creation. When you create a computer program you know how it will behave, you can predict everything that will happen when you run it unless you didn't know what you were doing. The universe is not too complex for God, it was just not his creation.

  Quote

This is called open theism. I didn't like that when I first heard it, because it seems like it is limiting God a lot, but maybe that's something some of you will like.

Here in reality God is actually limited to not existing, which actually is a pretty good thing! Instead of looking for a way to give the scriptures a little sense, you can as well consider that there is no god, and that the scriptures were man written. It's the only way you can give them a meaning and a place within reality.

While we're at it, can someone tell me why Christians eat pork, when God strictly forbids it?

  On 4/18/2012 at 10:32 PM, Hoodie said:

not as mad as you should be that you're going to HELL for your catholic BLASPHEMY!!!!

Aside from just being sentenced to hell, it is a nice change to see some raw human emotion and conviction in here instead of the typical boring questioning for the sake of questioning.

Anyways, I was originally going to guess Protestant ..maaaybe even a born again... but you have to be a Mormon. Please tell me you're a Mormon! I'd enjoy a good laugh right about now.

In the name of God; The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

>> And dispute not with the People of the Book (Jews, Sabians and Christians), except with means better than mere disputation, unless I be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury, but say to them: "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him that we bow." <<

(Qur'an 29:46)

Peace to all!

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” - JESUS